You're listening to another episode of Barrel to Bottle, The Binny's Podcast. I'm Greg, and this time we're actually in a room together, though socially distanced, back on the podcast for the first time in a while. Alicia? Good to be here. Alicia and Wine. And Pat? Hey, Pat. Spirits, stuff, etc. And jumping on for the first time ever? Ever. Is one of our wine managers at The Binny's in Lincoln Park, Gabe? How are you? Long time employee, first time collaborator. So, we're having you in the room today because way back in January, close listeners to the podcast might remember the Bordeaux episode that we put out. Emphasis on boar. It was... Well, I wasn't on it. Pat, you weren't on it, right? I think I was maybe in the room. I might have been on it. I was, you know... Oh, Pat was on it. I might have slept through that recording. Well, we blame you for it being so boring. It was a tad on the dry side. So, anyway... Let's slap a little RS on it. At the end of that one, we had a little bit of an ellipsis promising to be continued. And Gabe, we brought you into the room because you have actually been to the region and you're going to talk us through some of the places that you have visited and share your passion with the area. Thank you. Yeah. This is definitely a passion. When you asked me last week, what can I talk about for at least a half hour? Some things, but mostly Bordeaux. I think anyone that will ask, he's just going to talk about Bordeaux for a half hour. We'll edit the other topics. Seinfeld rerun quotes. Call of Duty, bro. Grand Tour. Definitely Grand Tour. I don't know on an Xbox anymore. I don't know. You're growing up. I'm a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. I was lucky enough to go to the On Premier trip for the 2018 Vintage. We're going back two years now. It was supposed to be with our buyer. Last minute, it turned out it's going to be with my boss of bosses. I was immediately like, sweet bro trip. Then I was like, he's my boss. Wait a minute. Your boss of bosses, who is on the last Bordeaux episode? Yeah. He did great. Wonderful tour. I will say that was probably- I've never laughed so much in a week. I've never had so much fun and I've never just had my mind blowing on a daily, if not hourly. They're exhausting trips. They're long. You're just hauling until you sit down at dinner at like 8 o'clock at night and you're like, I'm tired of looking at you guys. Then food comes. You're like, this is fun again. I heard you guys ate your fair share of Escargot. Not Escargot. Duck hearts for sure. I introduced the boys to what a version of blood sausages in the form of blood pancake. They loved it. Blood pancake? It sounds Scottish. Gross. I thought I had all the blood foods there was to be had, but now you're blowing my mind with a blood pancake. This is at La Tupine, I think, in downtown Bordeaux. And it's, I mean, not even as big as the room that we're in right now with an open hearth, huge fire kind of in the back, and a really kind of bare bones menu. And they are famous for blood pancake, but also there is an AOC, so a regional designation for chicken in France. And they will serve you this chicken. That's it. That's the most pretentious French horse s*** I have ever heard. If it's not coming from the back of the yards of Lincoln Park, then it don't count. No, that was... Wait, there's an AOC for the chicken. There's an AOC for just this chicken. It somehow fell into this... Yeah. Don't they do that with foie gras, too? Sometimes we forget that the protected designation of origin system throughout Europe is not just for wine, it's for other food products as well. Oh, yeah. Tons of cheese. Tons of cheese. But that was that place. And yeah, we had to order a blood pancake. Of course. The blood is from what animal? Is it actual blood from an animal? It's, yeah, wherever it comes from, it comes from it. What kind of psychopath designed that as a food? I don't understand. Humans are gross and weird. Welcome to Eastern Europe. Someone with an iron deficiency. Or an excess of blood. Like, what are we going to do with all this blood? It's the spinach for Popeye. Just squeeze out a blood sausage. So we've all been on one of these trips where you go and you visit tons of wineries. You check out all the areas of the... Pat, you've been on a wine trip too, right? Yeah. And it sounds delightful, but really it becomes something of a day of hard work by the end. You know, visiting Chateau de Chateau, it's timed. I mean, these places aren't miles and miles apart. Bordeaux is not huge. I mean, if you look at Palmaral, it's roughly the size of Lincoln Park. Really? Yeah. It's from here to New City maybe at best. Or like, if you're looking at that very prime portion of Palmaral, it's really a few city blocks at best. Wow. But yeah. So, but the appointments are 15 minutes and you'll show up there. But yeah, like this guy got out of bed to talk to us and you're just there like, we were five minutes late and we only had 15 minutes here. So I got about five minutes for you to pour me a wine so we can get to the next place. How many wines do they actually pour at each place? It depends on where you're at. If you're doing just a Chateau, it's one. The cool thing about going to En Premier is that they tie the whole UGC event that does go on a world tour. They tie that into the entire portion of En Premier where the entire world is basically, this is the first time anyone's going to taste the new vintage. So your press is there maybe a week or two before you and then there's a portion of it that's just kind of open to the trader, whoever can make their way there. So within that, you'll also have sub-regional tasting. So you could be at, let's shoot it out there, you could be at Ducroux-Bacquieu for a regional tasting of all Saint Julien and they'll have obviously their wines, but they'll have their neighbors there as well. That's great that they're, they partner like that and actually cooperate. Yeah, because instead of trying to focus, you know, decidedly on French. Yeah. So we all get together today, right? It's fine. Just to back up a little bit for our listeners, let's talk on Premier and you know, it came about especially kind of after World War II when these chateaus were strapped for cash. Do you want to share a little bit about kind of how the winemakers are preparing their wines and doing so for this on Premier tasting? Because you know, you're tasting the wine well before this wine will actually be sold to our customers. Yeah. And this is really the first few drops that anyone tastes outside of the winery. And a lot of times when you get there, I mean, you could be tasting something on a Thursday that they pulled straight out of the barrel on Tuesday or Wednesday for you. And it really is to stoke the imagination, to get everyone excited. And that's what's so important about having the press show up, because if they're writing about it, they're talking about it, they're kind of building the hype on it. But it also helps establish the pricing, which is equally important because everyone in France, and this is a very French thing, they're waiting. They're waiting to see who says what, who's going to kind of establish it. And once they do, it kind of sets the trend for the rest of the region. So to be able to showcase these wines, and I'm sorry I don't have as much background and history into it, but it is at least from a sales point of perspective, this is really the show that's going to establish you for the remainder of the vintage. It's going to set you up for the next vintage in terms of pricing as well. So you've got these chateaus just kind of staring each other down waiting for somebody to make the first move on price. In some cases, yeah. And showing the whole world their wines for the first time. But the people who are evaluating these wines and hopefully then buying these wines, you know, retailers, importers, and stuff, you kind of have to approach tasting these wines differently, right? Because you said it came out of a tank and it's going to be bottled, not released for a couple years. How close would you say it tastes to the bottled goods? Best case, no, this is, I mean, tank is a loose term here. This is coming out of like raw new oak. Various, I mean, they're not charring the same way they would like a bourbon barrel. This is just really raw wood. And that comes through, structurally speaking, not to be graphic, but you know, you take some of these meetings, your tongue is bleeding by the end of the day, just from constantly taking in, swishing, spitting all the raw tannin. You see concentration at best, you see ripeness in some examples, especially given the vintage. You know, 18 when I was there, it was actually a really nice fruit set. But there's, I mean, you could have been there for a year where it's like, you know, this is grim, this is a little rough. So you have to think in terms of textures. And this is something that I kind of developed a mindset for while I was tasting there because, first of you can't translate fruit everywhere in the world. Some places don't know what a cassis is all about and it's not common to have plums everywhere. Have never had a cassis. Where the hell is Roger when we need him, right? Yeah, right. You guys want to run to the Jewels? Cassis 2.998. They don't have cassis at the Jewels. No, you're right. Most people don't have that. Most people don't know that taste. You have to think of terms of textures. How does this feel in my mouth? How is the tannic structure showing in the first few months in a barrel? How are the acidities? That's always a big one too because 18 wasn't overly acidic. So when you found acidity in something, your 23rd wine of the sitting, and get that little in the back of your jaw there, you're like, oh, okay, this will be good. This will be nice. So you're talking about the 18 vintage when you were in Bordeaux for En Premier. That was in 2019, right? Yeah. Then this year, the whole En Premier campaign didn't really happen. So some of us got a sneak peek. They shipped us some of the barrel samples, right? Yeah. So Binny's was actually really lucky to get a lot of samples for 2019, both whites and reds and sweet wines. Yeah. So I actually got to taste a few with one of our buyers, Barb. And we were fortunate enough to taste some of those. And it looks like a really great vintage. It doesn't have the same kind of power as 18 and maybe Tannic structure as 16. But some have compared it to 09, which is a really great year. And the wines were very popular in the States. So definitely keep a look out for it. And also know that the prices this year at En Primeur were about 20 to 30% less than they have been in the past. So we should hopefully find some good values. Yeah, and if that 09 was like a famously expensive vintage too. 09 and 10 were right when Bordeaux was kind of getting to peak value, at least with the collector market in Asia and stuff, right? And so if you're going to compare something to 2009 and it can be added a value, that's pretty good. That's true. I snuck into that tasting too. And like it is overwhelming. And it was only for, I only tasted for like a half hour. And at some point, like I'm not taking notes on these wines. I'm clearly just experiencing an impressionistic version of the, you know, the regions across and an idea snapshot of the vintage. But it is, it's so primal. It's an unfinished product. It's right out of wood. It's very raw. And I don't think I've had so many like overwhelming and still kind of unpolished wines at the same time. Pretty cool. What's the path then from those wines to the bottled product like we have here in front of us today? So it just sits in bottle or it sits in wood? More wood. At least a year. So generally speaking, kind of your top wines in Bordeaux are about 18 to 24 months when you say, Gabe, in oak. So if you're kind of six months into that after harvest, you have another year at least in oak. So, you know, a buyer commits to purchasing however many cases at En Primeur, that wine, you know, they'll let Elivage continue and barrel and let the winemaker do their thing. And it will include then being shipped over when it's ready. So is the wood, is the wood influence kind of a parabolic curve where you taste it when it's like on up and up and near its peak and but it spends another year and then it just kind of develops and tones down a bit before it gets bottled? Best case scenario, it does. Okay. It does. I think there's some producers where it hits that peak, but then you have all the other structural elements of just the grapes and the wine and the vineyards that come into effect. And I think, you know, places like Latorre are notorious for this, like that wood is going to hit somewhere, but the power of that wine is just going to carry and it's going to be several decades before it decides to mature and calm down and be at Took me several decades to mature and calm down too. And also keep in mind that this isn't the 90s anymore and even kind of the early 2000s that the use of 100% new oak is in decline and most are using a combination of first use, second use, third use barrels. Do they ferment in the barrel too or do they ferment in fooders or something like that or does it depend on the producer? I think most probably do stainless. Yeah, a lot of them do. I think it does depend on the producer because there's a few that I think will just go as classically as they can. Concrete, stainless, and wood are all used. Just depends kind of the resources that you have. Yeah, I think temperature plays a lot part of that. Just climate in Bordeaux plays a big part of that. Yeah, all of these are temperature controlled. So going back to what you were saying about how it's work, when we're tasting it out from the air, like Alicia said, we're kind of making a decision there what we're going to take. A lot of the big names, you're going to see the same ones year in, year out. A portion of the trip that we take is looking at that Petite Chateau stuff that was discussed in part one. And that's even worse because now you're sitting down to 40 wines that are young and also from this greater scope of region and they don't show as much definitive characteristic between themselves. I'll use a Bamadesco line, there's a lot more similarities than there are differences. So you're 30 wines deep, I'm like, oh, it just tastes the same. Yeah, you're trying to pick out the highlights, right? You're trying to pick out the highlights because this is what's going to mean, and we're talking, you know, fast pennies and slow nickels over here. We're going to crank through this stuff, and we ought to make sure that it's good. And I think that's a really important part, but it is tedious work. It's hard. This has been a pretty dry podcast so far. Yeah, let's taste. Yeah, can we drink something already? Geez. I feel proud of that one. That was good. Lovely pop. All right. We are socially distancingly passing... What am I doing? Socially distancingly passing these wines. Long distances. What are we starting out with here, Gabe? So, I wanted to dial in wines specifically from the 2016 vintage, where Pat was saying, oh, nine, I think set a new bar for the 2000s. 2010 took that a little bit further. And I think 16, almost unanimously decided, is really what kind of solidified itself in that ranking over there and has been the highest height that we've seen in the last few years. So, I wanted to dial into this vintage. And we wanted to, at least for this podcast, look at specifically the Medoc within Bordeaux. And that can mean a lot of different things. It's a composition of several different sub-appalations. Most famously, you are finding the classification system there, which is a mess. It's difficult to completely understand. Even the French aren't entirely happy with it. But it's there and people know it. And I think it's kind of BS. The growths? We're talking about the growths right now? I got a goiter. Like you wouldn't believe. Gross. Show of hands, does anybody in this room not think that it's BS? Anybody going to defend it? I mean, I think there's a tradition to it that's nice. But I actually can't think of one other place in the world where now 170 years ago. Yeah. Some rich people paid some other rich people off. We haven't changed anybody's opinion on it. Think of it this way. Imagine if they were going to do another World's Fair. And they were going to specifically do it in Chicago. And the people hosting this wanted to go, okay, we need to find the best car makers in Chicago. Who do we ask? Well, let's ask the dealerships. And the dealerships are going to tell you, okay, here are the top selling domestic vehicles. All right. Your Ford Explorer is not the best car in the world. Cool. So, okay. So specifically what it is, what it is. There was they decided to create a level of classification of the quality of these wines. And they based it essentially on the price, like the selling price of the goods. And what are we in the 1840s right now? We're in the 1850s. 1850s. And then, so based on what people were willing to pay, they created a classification of the quality of their wines, and then agreed to what? Updated every 10 years or so? No. The 1855 classification is set. It is unchanged, except for one exception. If you made the fussiest, fussiest fuss, you maybe got to change. If you're really rich and fussy, maybe you can work your way in. But no, unlike some other classifications in Bordeaux, the Medoc has remained intact from 1855. Yeah. And it's important to know that the classification, if you are, say, a first growth or second growth, it's with your chateau. It is not with a specific piece of land, like in Burgundy, say, with the Grand Cru system there. So how to translate that when you're on the store floor and you're looking at a bunch of French labels and a lot of beige labels with black print and red script, it's difficult. To me, buying Burgundy is like house shopping. You want to know the area. You want to learn your neighbors. You want to learn the school system. You want to talk to the people that live there because it's all very specific to your house. When you're in France, I'm sorry, when you're in Bordeaux, you're looking for just a good spot in a really fancy condominium. Like oh, Patrick Kane lives there too? I'll take it. Why would you pick Patrick Kane? That's weird. I don't know who the kids want to hang out with, what if I- Oh man. So anyway, getting back to these growths, or getting back to the wine, 16, Killer Vintage. What we have in our glass is Chapelle de Potensac. This is coming from the General Medoc. This is the second wine of Chateau Potensac, and they have been told they're a fifth growth, and they're not arguing. A fifth growth. How many growths are there now? On me or you? Hey. Oh, never mind. He keeps using tumor humor. Yeah. That's good. There is five growths though. Five growths. There's five growths. I think in the original classification, I didn't get a number for this, but to be a fourth growth, you were selling your grapes between 1.8 thousand and 2.1 thousand francs per ton. So fifth growths are like free. Is that 1850s numbers or something? I don't know. What's the inflation on francs in the last 170 years? Well, now they're worthless. Now they're worthless, but also land in Bordeaux is stupid. Land in Bordeaux is impossible. Everybody in the Medoc is trying to get more cabernet Sauvignon. Everybody. It doesn't matter how established you are. Everyone is trying to get more. So the price for a hectare is insane. And it is. I mean, it's really the same. A hectare is only two acres. It's not a lot of land. You could be looking in the neighborhood of over a million euro for two acres. And just to put some context into how much money there is here, the average size of an estate in Bordeaux is 42 acres. So it's very large compared to, again, places like Burgundy come to mind, that it's very small. So there's serious money here and people pay a lot for these wines. So, Gabe, let's talk about kind of what makes the Medoc the Medoc. Moving on a little bit from the classification and just maybe we'll talk a little bit of soils, but kind of what can we expect from these wines? Power. You and it 100% translates to the varietals. It translates to its proximity to a river, and it is all about soil. But power is what you're going to get. You're going to get structure, you're going to get concentration, you're going to get really big wines that will mature very, very well for a long, long time. Primarily cabernet? Primarily cabernet. Merlot is a strong player in that. Obviously, cabernet is king over there. You're seeing also less Merlot, I think because it's just getting hotter. In order to keep these alcohols from going crazy, Merlot will ripen. cabernet needs a little bit more time. That's also why these gravels are a huge player to that. You're reflecting sunlight. If you have a iffy start or a tough finish to your vintage, having big gravel soil is going to be a huge player for you. But yeah, mostly cabernet here. This wine is awesome. Yeah, the Chapelle de Potensac smells super classy and bricky and loamy and then like a tart cherry right in there too. Yeah, there's definitely a tartness like midway through the palate. It really hits you in terms of the condition of the fruit. And though this is just 2016 and kind of in Bordeaux years, that seems recent. You know, it's four years old, but I think it's drinking beautifully right now. And so don't be too intimidated. You know, sometimes we like, oh, you got to lay it down. You got to age it. I think this is a really accessible wine. Yes, I think it will get a little bit better, but I think it's drinking beautifully. Tons of fruit, a little bit of kind of herbaceous quality. Definitely highlights that power. Kind of a sanguine, coppery, like metallic feel at the back end. What it doesn't have is blood pancakes. Blood pancakes. I'm missing a little blood. It's slightly leaner, actually, texture-y than I think the others will show. I think what turns a lot of people off to Bordeaux is just this whole pencil-lead quality to it, the graphite-iness. I don't think this is screaming in that. I like it. I love the graphite of Bordeaux. I like that it's not here and I love the acidity on this wine. Yeah, it's a really fresh style. Second label, that was the idea. You're probably seeing younger vines. You're probably seeing less new oak than the main label. What are we charged for this one? Around ballpark because it changes. 20 bucks or so? Yes, it lives in the $20 neighborhood. A little bit over. Cool. So, talking about who has what in Bordeaux in terms of vineyards, this is actually owned by... You need this capital. You need some cash behind you. That's why you see a lot of investment from overseas. You see a lot of Far East investment. You see a lot of Swiss banks. A lot of insurance companies. Oh, yeah. Somebody that has just money they can put up front. And it's not bad. It's not a bad thing because a lot of the times, these people are very hands off with it. And if anything, they're investing to be able to put in, you know, get more vineyards because none of these are all. I mean, there's very few people that have everything just in their backyard. That's a big thing with Bordeaux. It's not just in your backyard. And you want that complexity. Are they bottled at the Chateau? Yeah. OK. So but all these grapes weren't necessarily grown at the Chateau? Yeah. Pontesac has a certain amount of vineyards that are right around the Chateau, the remainder of which are going to be scattered around the Medoc. And again, given your regional classification on there, it's going to determine how far out you can go. Yeah. They're definitely from within the region that's on the label. Yeah. But it's not like the top tier label is going to be from everything just on that Chateau estate. Sometimes, depending on who it is. And actually, I think there's a, obviously radio viewers can't see, but there's a brilliant map here that shows you exactly how spread out some of these vineyards are. It's a great map, Gabe. What a map. Hey, you guys see this? Look at this. Radio viewers. You look, I don't even have it anyway. So, you know what to answer your question, Chateau Latour, you park next to the vineyard and you're like, come on, this can't be it. You're like kicking the rocks around. Yeah, that's it. Mostly. Mostly. But for a lot of others, almost all Bordeauxs, of course, are blends and Merlot will grow better on soils that are more rich in clay, cabernet on gravel, and so your ability to have vineyards in various locations based on soil type and proximity to So maybe some geographic diversity is a good thing. Yes, and it's also a good thing because this region, very close to the Atlantic, is prone to frost, it's prone to hail, it's prone to rain, and that's why vintage, one of the reasons why vintage matters so much in Bordeaux and people make a fuss of it. I think it was in 2013 due to frost that they lost about 30% of the crop. So that's why prices spike up and it has massive financial ramifications. So geographical diversity is a good thing. There's also a lot of established families that really help keep these things kind of level. The Mouilloux is being a big one in the Pomerol Saint-Domingue, and actually the owners of Pont-de-Sac are the De Leon, sorry, De Leon family that also does L'Oeuvre, Les Cosses and Chateau Nenene. And when you have those names attached to you, you have... Nene, nene. I don't know where the accent goes. Sorry. Keep it coming, Pat. It's French. You pick 30% of the letters and pronounce those. Your call. Dealer's choice. These guys know what they're doing. They are in the area. They're invested in the area. They know how they want to move around their money. And they also know the players, the key players, because there's so many consulting winemakers behind the scenes in these places that if you can get the same guy that's making some of the top tier wines from some other regions, they're just stoked to be playing around in other areas. And like, hell yeah, I'll make Margaux for you today. What do you got? Vineyard? Show me. Let's do the next line. We're jumping into Pauillac, and while we're running the bottle around from every corner of this building, Pauillac is most famous for having some of your first growths. There's nothing in between a first and a fifth growth in Pauillac, and I think that's an amazing thing to note. You have Lafite, you have Mouton, you have Latour, and then you got a fifth growth. Some of the most highly respected wine producers in the world, and then this guy? And then this guy. So, Pedesclaux is fascinating to me. They actually just rebuilt their winery, and it is stunning, and they're really taking advantage of these slightly, you know, very gradually sloped hills that are in Pauillac. Everything's gravity-fed, which is cool, and it's cool to see. But anyway, talking about your neighbors, some of these vineyards, not all directly, so there's the obviously Pedesclaux main property, they have their backyard. A little bit away from that, you have Lynch Bage, and you also have D'Armalac. Armalac? Armalac. Yeah, Armalac. There are two L's. Armillac. And it's like a Y. Oh, Armillac. Thanks for the confirmation. You're here already. The other side of their vineyards is the backyard of Lafite Rothschild. Wow. Yeah. So some pretty impressive neighbors here. Pauillac, unlike the last wine we had just from the Medoc, this is where you get that power and you get that concentration. Just the intensity of aromatics is insane on this wine. Gorgeous, like perfectly ripe black fruit. Yes. A lot of kind of violet and floral notes as well. Totally. And then you get that really soft presence of oak, but it's so refined. It's a very robust wine. And again, you guys heard that cork come out. These aren't sound effects, y'all. We're real deal Holyfield around here. This is something that we'll drink over the next three days. This is something that could benefit from a little time being open. Three days? Oh, yeah. Pat, if you have the patience, a wine like this is just one game of Halo for you. Remember that time we tried to drink for three days? Structurally speaking, if you pull the cork on this and pop it in the fridge overnight, leave yourself a little bit to the next day, slowing down that oxidization process, coming back to it in the next day, you'll see that it's evolved, coming back Yeah, it definitely has enough concentration. The tannic structure as well is way more present in this wine. Oh yeah. They were definitely there in the last one. Very grippy. But it's balanced by a plushness. Definitely, definitely. And I think there is a soft fruit element to Pauillac, despite we're talking about robust and structure, but the fruit is still a little plush. It's nice. That's why I like this wine. For one, it's Pauillac and it's only $50. Number two, it's plush just like we were saying. When you have a bottle of Latorre, even if you have a bottle of baby Latorre, even if you find the baby baby Latorre, which should only be going to the little guy, that should only be going to restaurants. If you catch that, that's something about Latorre. You pull a cork and you pour a glass and it looks at you. It stares. It's like, you gonna drink me? Drink me. Just try it. Just try it. And then you drink it. You're like, why has this hurt my tongue? Why is this wine so angry right now? Too soon. It's a 50-year wine or a four-day-in-the-fridge wine. But not this. We pulled a cork out of this and started like, yeah, cool, wine. I'm wine. You want to drink wine? Let's drink. The other reason I like this wine is that if I spend $50 and I really like it but I don't love it, I'll still sleep well that night. But if I spend $500 and I don't absolutely love it, I have to answer to my husband on the credit card bill. Even if you love it, you do. Yeah, that's like a couple of car payments. This is like this lavender candy or blackjack gum kind of thing underneath the fruit too. Blackjack gum? What are we talking about? What is that? What the hell is that? Oh, it's anise. Anise. Oh, okay. Yeah. I like it. You guys never had blackjack gum. I guess it's one of those retro gums. No. But for normal people, anise. Anise, black jelly bean. You know like a purple jelly bean and a black jelly bean at the same time? That. Okay. Not the great purple, but the flowery purple. And you're talking about what's lingering around because that hasn't been in your mouth in a little bit. Yeah, like underneath the fruit. It's cool. It's hopping. I like that. I think that should also be... That's good wine in general. They always talk about finish, the length of the finish, but it doesn't... It should still be this evolving quality after that wine's dissipated. So as long as your mouth isn't full of blood pancake. Can you imagine just a nice slice of rye and some blood pancake right now? Trout sounds good. Trout sounds pretty good. You guys want to talk about food a little bit more? Because I think these wines are definitely made for red meat, but not exclusively. I think that that last wine, if you had a... I think even smoked trout wouldn't be bad with that. You want something with a little more body and fat. Yeah, but I would pour this Bordeaux next to a really... I mean, just a grilled salmon or something like that, and I don't think you would lose out from either one of them. Miso glaze or something. So this bottle is heavier and fancier. Yeah. We've moved down. Does that mean the wine is going to be fuller body? Probably. Yeah. We've moved, what, up the river? River goes down, so you move up. Yeah, I think that's how that works. We're in Saint Julien. This is a third growth out of Saint Julien. This is 2016 Chateau Lagrange. Pat, you might know something about the Suntory folks, right? Well, I'm familiar with the fine south side town of Lagrange, my friend. What does Suntory own this? Suntory does own this property. They bought it back in 1925. That's a long time. I mean, Suntory, I mean, what are some of the things- Since the 20s, Suntory's owned it? Since the 20s. There's been that much foreign investment in Bordeaux for that long. I thought that was like a recent thing with the kind of rise of the billionaire class in China and stuff. I had no idea. Suntory goes back to the 1920s. Suntory goes back. Mr. Suntory founded that company in the late 1800s, I think, before. And then he hired Masaharu Taketsuru, who then he sent to Japan or to Scotland to learn how to make whiskey. He came back, started making whiskey for Suntory, left, and then he started the Nika Whiskey Company. Little Easter egg for the spirits listeners who are still listening to this episode right now. Do you get a bonus check every time you pronounce something Japanese flawlessly but see some French on a label? I was like, no, I can't do that. You can't pronounce Vilaige. Yeah, so this is owned by the Suntory's. They have been taking good care of it. Oh wait, they saw a remodernization of the winery. They keep, I mean, this is another one. You think Suntory, I mean, they're big. They're not just small-time guy there. Huge business. Even they're still trying to get more vineyards for Lagrange. Do you know what the blend is on this wine? This is actually going to be 70% cabernet, 24 Merlot, and then the remainder is Petit Bordeaux, which is a new player. It's all, I mean, it's been in Bordeaux, but, I mean, for example, Chateau Lagrange didn't plant Petit Bordeaux until 1988. And I think in most recent vintages, particularly 18, I was shocked at how much Petit Bordeaux was popping up. And it's just one of those, you know, those background singers. You're going to need that Tito because Michael isn't always going to be 100, you know? Yeah, there's definitely diversity in plantings going on. And also, we do need to mention that seven new varieties were approved last year, or kind of just about there. And all of this is to kind of pick out some varieties that are a little more heat-resistant. And as Bordeaux braces itself for kind of some warmer and warmer years, making sure they have varieties planted that can endure that heat and that they can continue to make as much kind of quantity of wine that they do. And still maintain something of that classic style, right? Right, exactly. I have not memorized these, but Trigo Nassia now might be one that listeners know of. Are you serious? They're growing to really thin Bordeaux? Well, it's been approved, so they'll go ahead and plant it now. But global warming is real, people. Yeah, no, global warming is really smack Bordeaux. If the Bordeaux leaves are changing things up like this, you know things are really happening here. So, yeah, these seven new varieties collectively can only make up 5% of a producer's vineyard area and 10% of the final blend. So they're incrementally incorporating these. But yeah, Trigonasci now, which you know from port production in the Doral Valley, Marcellin, some other whites that you might know, Alvarinho, which is Portuguese for Alvarinho. So you might know that. I'd get into that. Yeah. So some changes coming. So not surprising that Petit Bordeaux is also rising in popularity. I think it's going to be a similar scenario to pricing every year. But everyone's waiting to see who's going to be the first one to go over 10% on Petit Bordeaux. Everyone's going to see, OK, Torriga, I'm not doing it until they're doing it. They better come out with it. They better come out with it and they better sell at a price point that's attractive to the world market. That's going to be attractive to us in order for me to come out with it next year. Yeah. I mean, I think we'll really see it just first in that Bordeaux and the Bordeaux Superior AOCs. Yeah. And we'll see how that is received. But that's the stuff that we're just going to eat it up. This is a big mouthful of wine. Yeah, we should talk about the Lagrange here. It is, right? It's like red clay, like this mouth coating quality. And even off the nose, you're getting alcohol and you're getting this raw, fresh wood thing just right off the nose. And that's part of the reason Saint Julien is my favorite. I've always found Saint Julien to be the toughest to enjoy on its own. This is very tasty, but I think I like the last one more. Really? It's friendlier. It's friendlier. It's more plush. It's more open even though it's very tannic. This one is like, I don't think it's ready to go. I never say that about wine because I think it's a travesty that they would sell you a product that's not ready to consume right now. That's BS, but it's tradition. But like this is like if you're listening to music and you have your EQ and you crank the mids, this is like a mid cranked wine. It's just completely blown out with like less definition because it's just so saturated. Yeah, I think that less definition is a good praise because it comes in, as Gabe said, you kind of smell some of this oak. And then on the palate, it's like really juicy fruit. It's really round. And then it dries up at the back end of your palate and you get more of the tannin and more of the dryness from the oak. Yeah. So yeah, it needs to all come together. But it definitely is, it's kind of rounder. I'll say that rounder in texture than the last wine. Yeah, for sure. And another interesting thing about this, we were kind of talking about the vineyard breakup within Bordeaux. For Lagrange, they have 118 hectares under vines, and the majority of it is under one massive block that gets divided into 102 parcels. And each of these, I'm sorry, this massive block is kind of scattered across like two slopes. So you have aspect, you have obviously 102 parcels. You want to talk about blending, like that's that goes into whiskey territory. Yeah. I'm surprised they get that much variety to warrant 102 parcels. Yeah, sounds like champagne. Yeah. But I think that's why we're tasting something that doesn't have this soft edge to it, because they're showing you, well, this is this is our stuff. This is what we got. This is our 102 parcels blended out for you. You know, we could have we could have won anywhere. Could have been anywhere in the world tonight. Pretty awesome line. Ba da ba ba ba ba. So going back to the last one, we had 50 bucks. Chateau Lagrange, I think, is tipping the scales at $60. And you know what? If you want something to forget about for a few years, let's be confident in this one. Cool. Finally, final stop on the tour to Left Bank. So now we're tasting my favorite Appalachian. This is Margaux. He only wanted to talk about Morgaux, and we were like, look, man, you gotta get a little more break. Hey, Left Bank is north side of the river or south side of the river? West side of the river? West side of the river? It's the Chicago Fire side of the river. Hmm. I thought the river kind of cut through and ran west toward the ocean. It's a southwest side. Okay. It runs from southeast to northwest, the river. Yeah. It runs... No, no, no. Southwest to northeast? We're all stabbing our arms up into the air, drawing the path of the river toward the ocean. I think of it as like, if you hold your... Southeast to northwest. Yeah. And this is the southwest side. Correct. Yeah. The south side. Yeah. Well, let the record state I was correct. I'm not even going to attempt to pronounce this. Blasong, this is about as phonetic as French will ever get. Fancy gold label. I have a customer who speaks fluent Italian, and I can't even correct her. She comes up and asks, where do you guys keep San Chere? Oh my god, it sounds so much better in the Italian pronunciation. San Chere? San Chere. Oh, that sounds great. Right? Compared to Sansaire. Sansaire. Sansaire. Well, hope they don't listen to this podcast. The French or the Italians? Customers who know how to pronounce things. Yeah. Next week's episode. Oh, this smells awesome. This does. So Margaux can be some of the most kind of perfumed and silky of wines. Gabe, why do you like it so much in addition to that? I like it because it does show this distinct graphitiness almost across the board. I like Margaux because they're inherently very generous wines, but they're very, as some people would archaically would say, feminine wines. They are not brooding. They are not smack you in the face. They're not going to jump out at you. They're not going to make you really have to, you know, dive deep into that glass to find, you know, some nuance to it. They're just they're soft, they're pleasant. But again, once you get them in the palate, once you even lay them down for a few years, they they just become so, so generous. This is plush, very ripe cherry, just overwhelming. And then, and then like a tea-like herbal streak threw it too. Yeah, I definitely think there's a kind of a black tea element to it. You also get like some dried like herbal, like mint eucalyptus thing going on. But unlike the last one, I feel that this is a very kind of closely knit integration between all the components. And though the fruit is very ripe and delicious, frankly, the tannins have are kind of creating this, the structure for it on your palate. And it really keeps it in a defined shape. That tea quality Greg was talking about, I think that hangs out in the back for a long time. I think that's what would make it really interesting with cheese, that particular note right there, to see how both of those would carry on the palate. Double backing real quick. This is 2016 Blossom D'Assane. This is the second wine of third growth Chateau D'Assane. First vintage of this was in 95. So it's fairly a new player to their arsenal here. Cool thing about D'Assane is that they're one of the few Bordeaux Chateaus that has a clove. And what I mean by that is enclosed walled vineyards. And a large majority of their fruit is going to be coming from that walled vineyard. So what we have here on their second wine is younger vines. Some of the oldest they have go back about 65 years. This is some of the youngest plantings they have within that wall, but also some things just outside of it still within the Margaux Appalachian. And this sees less new oak as well in comparison to their Grand Vin. Price-wise, you're looking at almost half, which is really cool. So what is the price on something like this? $30 and change. Not bad. That's great. I think this is actually my favorite considering the price point. I really liked the Pauillac as well, but for 30 bucks. I like the Lagrange. What was the Lagrange? Lagrange was 60. 60. And that's Saint Julien. Saint Julien is really small too. And I think if you have land in Saint Julien, I think it's harder to acquire more land there. Is this great perfume right on top of everything? I think we're all really digging that. I love that herbal note in it. It's so distinct. And I think it keeps it from being overly perfumey. I really like this a lot. And given the amount of Merlot in here too, because it's almost an even split between Cab and Merlot, it definitely could have gotten over-ripened. You could have been getting a lot of just this ripe cherry and plum off the nose if it wasn't for that. Really nice fruit, though. Nice ripe cherry. Damn, it's good. Good, right? Really good. And that's why I love talking about Bordeaux. And that's why you're going to have a few things in your back pocket talking about it. Customers are coming in like, I'm looking for Bordeaux. And sometimes, I mean, money is really not an object. But you want to find out what their tastes are and what appeals to who if you're going to be making recommendations. To me, if I'm talking to a Napa customer, I'm not necessarily going to Margaux because it's maybe a little too soft. Maybe it's a little too unassuming for them. I think Saint Julien, Pauillac, and Pissac-Lignon are a couple of areas that they're more tuned into. But if you're a pinot drinker and you're trying to cut your teeth into Bordeaux, the Lausanne would be perfect for you, softer approach, less tannic. That's why I like it. It's very good. Yeah. So for those shopping Bordeaux, would you recommend that they find one of these communes and kind of, oh, I really like that commune and maybe stick within that? Is that a good tip or how would you recommend our customer's approach? What is a very daunting aisle? Yeah. Depending on what your goal is, because from my standpoint with Bordeaux, I've done deep dives into just single Appalachians and only come out of it being a little turned off. I drank a lot of Saint Julien for a little bit and I came out of it like, you know what? I didn't have a steak every single time I had a wine and I'm just not jamming on Saint Julien. I think try one of each. Throughout your month or throughout your year, if you've got a taste for Bordeaux, maybe you're doing a lot of Margaux, pick up a Pissac Lignon and see what's different about it. Give Saint-Emilion a chance. Maybe save up an extra buy and get a Pomerol. Get like a $100 Pomerol and just strap in. If you want to do an entire episode on Pomerol, that's the one where you'll really get some geeks. Plus, we need an excuse to open Petruse. Agreed. All right. Terrific. So, Gabe, tell us a little bit of what was it like at En Primeur? What was kind of the vibe? Who was there? Any juicy stories you can share with us? Who was there as everybody? You end up kind of rubbing. We weren't there, so. Yeah. I think the coolest thing for me was talking to Negosians. And we could definitely dive deep into how Bordeaux gets sold and who these people are. But there's some of these guys that a Negosian has been in their family for generations upon generations, and they have such deep rooted relationships with wineries and winemakers. And they also have cellars, which is really cool. I will say one story. This is probably one of my favorite evenings as a grown adult. It was our last day of like hard trips, of hard visits. It started somewhere. I think the first winery was supposed to be at 7.45 in the morning, and it ran until about 6 o'clock. And at 7.15, we were supposed to be at Archie's for Snacks, is what it said on the program for the day. And we're all, you gotta be kidding me, Archie's for Snacks? I've been tasting wines since 8 a.m. and I get a snack? That sounds like taking a water break with like a quarter mile left. Yeah. Exactly. Says the guy who obviously hasn't run in five years. So we're all a little like drained by that. You got enough time to get into the hotel, maybe brush your teeth, try and make them somewhat white again, and then jump in an Uber to get to Archie's. And we were one of the first to show up and we get in there. And it's obviously the owner of this negotiation to Archie. It's his wife, his son, and it's a beautiful house. It's just a big three-story house in downtown French city. And they have oysters there. So Kevin is gone already. He just... This is Kevin, our wine manager from Grand Ave. Nice man. Just ask him. Yeah. Bigler was in those oysters probably until we left that night. He told me he almost got gout on the trip. He almost got gout. He almost did get gout. He almost got gout just on the plane ride back probably. But yeah, so he's going in there. And the only other two people there were these bigwigs from a very prominent New York-based wine shop. And they're all in like their 60s or whatever. So I'm already out. I'm like not even 30 years old. I got nothing to talk to these guys about. So Doug gets stuck talking to these guys. And I see this guy, this guy Khomeini, he's from Hong Kong. So I start chatting with him. And the wine on the table was a magnum of 1995 Ponte Cane that was re-bottled for the 2000 vintage. Kind of as a, you know, here's a great vintage, here's an ex-great vintage, another world, it's all great. So I'm kind of sitting on this and I'm talking to this dude. And after about a half hour or so, and I'm still just milking this glass because it's delicious, but I don't know what else has come my way and I don't want to eat their oysters. And then I look over at Kevin every 10 minutes, he's like, oysters here. He's like, yeah, I see that Kevin, you're doing great. So he's just, he's at some point, he's throwing, he's throwing the shells over his shoulder into their yard. As soon as we establish that she's not mowing the lawn, he's like, forget this. He's just chucking at himself like, so talking to this kid, this guy, he's a really cool dude. And by the time he tells me that he put a 2JZ motor inside a BRZ, which is not Wine Talk, I was like, all right, well, I'm out of this league as well. Doug finally comes up to me and I turn around and there's some other people in the room, like a lot of other people. And I'm like, Doug, what's going on? He's like, I'm dying over there. I was like, yeah, I could tell. It wasn't going to stop you though. I'm dying too. And I was like, so who's all here? He's like, well, that guy over there owns Grand Pouille Lacoste. Like, oh, oh. And who's that guy over there? He's like, well, that's the winemaker from Mouton. He's like, oh, okay, cool. And he's like, what are you drinking? He's like, oh, this is 1990 Le Mistien and Hapriel. I'm like, are you kidding me? Birth year Le Mist? I found the closest plant I could and just got rid of my glass of 1995 Ponte Canary. And I found this bottle and I don't know what was left. And half of it, I gave myself the most liberal pour I possibly could. And I was just like, I've been cloud-eyed. I was drowning. I was just done. I didn't want to touch an oyster. I hadn't eaten all day. I had been doing nothing but drinking red wine all day. But as soon as I saw that bottle, I'm like, I'm in. And then a second bottle comes out. I was like, oh my God, this is great. By the end of the night, we've had a 1939 VCC out of a three liter that was so past its prime. No offense to VC, uh, Vuse-Sout-Soutan. Yeah. Yeah, you know me. Yeah. You know, pre-war, there was a massive cheese plate that comes out and some war era saw turns. And at this point, we were just having the time of our lives. We had to, like, pull each other out of that room, get into an Uber, and we were giggling the whole cab ride back to the hotel. Poor hotel. Snacks at Archie's. Snacks at Archie's turned into one of the most amazing wine drinking nights of my life. So did you make the appointment the next morning at 7.45? No, the plane? The train out of town? I won't get into that one, but no, we didn't. All right. Well, that was a pretty expansive tour of the left bank of Bordeaux, or at least a few of the Appalachians. Appalachians? Sub-Appalachians? There are still Appalachians. Cool. Villages? Gabe, thanks for walking us through. Thanks for having me, guys. Sharing some opinions and some amusing anecdotes. Here's a question. As a whiskey drinker, and at what? Almost exclusively a whiskey drinker, right? Yeah, pretty much. In beer, which of these- Well, in a Marl. Which of these aligned with your palate the most? Lagrange. Yeah, Lagrange. Yeah, the last two were great. Lagrange probably was my favorite. This is the only one he can pronounce. That's why it's his favorite. I thought it was pronounced Lagrange. Lagrange. Actually, the first one was really good too. I really liked the first one we tried. That's it. The first one's great. I mean, especially it's in the $20 range, and weeknight or a weekend when you're hosting people and you need a couple bottles, it's a wonderful Bordeaux to show. It still has topicity, it still shows Bordeaux, but it's accessible now, and to be honest, it's actually good without food too. You don't need to worry too much about it. This is the business though. Holy cow, this is good. This should to Chapelle de Potensac. Like in a world of Chardonnay, it's a Sauvignon Blanc. It's just that much more vibrant and zippy and grabs your palate. For you guys, I don't know how captivated either of you are by Bordeaux because it's not exclusive. It's like this in Chardonnay is really all I ever want to drink is Bordeaux and any Chardonnay. I know you don't like Pinot. No, it's a bastard grape. What makes this so polarizing? What would make you guys want to buy this again? And where else would you look for this wine style like this? Because it's not necessarily Napa. No, it's not. Napa doesn't have the angle. Yeah, I actually think Chile is an interesting place to look to right now for cabernet. And because it's not depending on where it's growing, but if it's in the Maipo Valley or something, it's still not. There's still cooling influences there. And so it's climate because of the cooling current from the Pacific is a little bit closer, I would say, to that of Bordeaux. And I say this probably justifying why I blind tasted a Chilean Cab and thought it was French. That's interesting. Yeah, like the herbal quality. The herbaceous quality, that kind of green bell pepper element to it really sticks out on Chilean Cabs. But as you creep up in price and in quality, you'll find a little more balance. And I think it's an up and coming region to watch. Right. I'm going to say Italy. I think that outside of just the Super Tuscans, which do give you more of an old world structure, although sometimes with Mediterranean climate, it feels like they can delve into the Napa ripeness. But I think that cabernet drinkers in an old world mindset are doing themselves a disservice if they're not paying attention to Nebiolo from Piedmont because you have this same rough and tumble acidity and high toned tannins that give you a similar experience without all the same descriptors. No. Oh wait, did I just accidentally make it sound like I know what I'm talking about? You sure did. If my memory serves me correct, you do know what you're talking about. You were probably selling wine around the height of Australia. Do you think that Australian wine could still contend in this level? Nope. I love Australian wine, but it's about pleasure. I mean, like a lot of the really flashy super ripe ones that were all the rage 10, 12 years ago, they're not making that style. In the colder areas of Australia, those are some of the wines that have still survived, but they have just got to climb themselves out of a hole. Yeah. That's good insight. Yeah. I think too, just don't be afraid to. Sometimes I am reluctant to purchase Bordeaux if I'm not having that big red meat that we were talking about. And I would just encourage everyone to not make that same error, because as we talked about with, say, the Medoc earlier, that is a much more general food pairing wine. So talk to a wine consultant and just figure out something that's easy drinking and a little more fruit forward, and I think you'll find that it's more versatile. Cool. There's your navel-gazing wine segment. Gabe, thanks for sharing this tour of Medoc. This has been pretty eye-opening and exceptional wines. Thanks, guys. Tough to pick a favorite, you know? Yeah, really good wines, Gabe. Yeah. Awesome. Hey, everybody, we'll be in your feed again in a week with something fun. Until next time, thanks for listening to Barrel, to Bottle, The Binny's Podcast. I'm Greg. I'm Alisha. I'm Pat. And I'm Gabe. Keep tasting. I'm Gabe. Keep tasting? But without the question mark. I'm Rod Burgundy? I also haven't listed one of these yet. I wanted to see if you knew it. That's the close. No, of course I didn't know it. Say your name again and just say keep tasting, like the closure. Can I just end call like Zoom? Leave meeting. Leave meeting.