00:00 Winemakerʼs Journey You are listening to Barrel to Bottle, The Binny's Podcast. Back in your feed with something Jordan. I'm Greg, I do communications at Binny's. I'm Gabe, I'm wine managing at Lincoln Park, Lincoln Wood, Binny's. Still getting used to that, huh? Yeah, a little bit. I'm Lexi, I'm on socials. And you are? I am Maggie Kruse, winemaker at Jordan Vineyard and Winery. Yeah. What a polite golf clap we have. I don't think we've ever had clapping on this show before. No, because this is a big get. I'm sorry. This wasn't other wineries. This is Jordan. Are you telling us we need to take this podcast seriously? This is super exciting because I think Jordan is like textbook, ultra premium Napa. I'm sorry, California wine. I think it lives in a different space. I think when people want to try expensive California, they try Jordan. This is like the PETA Inn of California wine. I guess. It's like category defining. Yeah. Prototypical. I appreciate that. Arch even. I do remember there was an evening many years ago, 12 years ago, having a good time on a summer evening, grilling and drinking beers. And I had a friend over who at the time was working in wine. I was like, I've never had a really expensive California Cabernet. I was like, I have one, and it's Jordan. And I was just half in the bag, and I was just like, we're opening this now. And they loved it and they got it. And I think they left Binny's like two years later. But at least the next day, they knew how to sell expensive Cabernet. But we're not there yet. We're going to start with the Chardonnay. We're going to start with the Chardonnay, as we should. But we should start with Maggie. We only make two wines, so let's not jump the gun. But you do more than that, or the winery does more than that. I want to learn more about that, because there's some cool partnership things that blew my mind a little bit. But before that, you're a winemaker. Yes. How did that happen? So I'm actually a Midwest girl myself. Which part? Oh, I'm from Wisconsin. Okay. Milwaukee area, yes. That's okay. It's not my job to hit the packers, it's fine. I know I am a packer fan, I'm sorry. So my dad worked for Miller Brewing Company. So he was in the brewery and the canning line all over the place. And he knew that UC Davis had a great fermentation science program. At the time it was together, just fermentation science. And then with time, they separated brewing versus viticulture terminology. And he's like, Maggie, you love science and you get bored really easy. He's like, so you've always excelled on the lab side of things, would you ever be interested in studying wine making? Because it is a ton of science before you actually get into the getting drunk part. But real quick, before you go to UC Davis, are you like 13, like making hooch? And you're like 10, it's not bad. Maggie's onto something. Maybe we can make a buck off of this. I wish. Plan destinely running Miller Brewing. You guys think about putting lime in there, like hush up Maggie. I think I was, you know, all the employee beer my dad brought home was my inspiration with the Miller light. You guys should try putting this in an aluminum can. Oh man. Red dog was totally my idea. That's great. All right. So Pops was on to something you thought, he knew you'd be great at this and suggested UC Davis. Yes, he did. And so I went and visited and looked at it and loved it. I'm like, this is really where I want to be. Then you start all of the science series. You're in organic chemistry and biochem and you're sitting there with all these pre-med kids and you're like, I just want to make wine. What are the pre-med kids doing there? They're all in biology and organic chemistry. Okay, blends. Yeah, they're doing their basic stuff. You really don't even get to the analogy series and the winemaking side until your third or fourth year. You always got to entice somebody to want to stick around. Right? Yeah. A little bit. That's just for the wine consumption on weekends, I guess. UC Davis, world-renowned winemaking school. Is it like a jewelry art, for example, where your graduating class had X amount of world-class winemakers to the left and right of you? Who are your contemporaries that graduated with you? Or do they all fizzle out and you're just the rising star? No, there's a lot of great people. Or is it just a bigger community than that? It's actually a really small major. I think a lot of people think it would be really large, but it's not. I graduated in 2005, so it was a time where I wore a ton of jobs in the wine industry, which was a little difficult. But no, we had some seriously heavy hitters there. Nate Weiss, who has an amazing career. He's been with Silver Oak. He's currently with Bully Vineyards. His dad was a winemaker at Groth, and he's just an awesome human. He's a master student when I was an undergrad, so we were all together. Sarah Con Bennett, whose family owned Navarro Winery up in Anderson Valley. She was funny at graduation. We're like, Sarah, what are you going to do? And she's like, well, my parents already have a winemaker, so I'm just going to make cheese. She's like, I know somebody back home that can help you. And she did. She went and started Penny Royals, started making cheese, and now she has her own wine label. It's awesome. That's great. Yes, it's some pretty great people. Okay. So yeah. So you were, yeah. It's going to be intimidating. Yeah. It could be a girl from the Midwest with a no wine background and no one, owning a winery in my family. So, but I was very fortunate that they have a great placement program at UC Davis and it is a small major, so. I bet they all drank Miller. You know, California, all they want is those like super heavy IPAs and yeah, microbreweries. There's not a ton of like Miller consumed there. Oh, right. Could change. They need to get on the right page here. They're on the right page. So heavy. Yeah. So going back, you finished UC Davis, 05. Yep. And then I worked for J Vineyards and Winery for a year. Wanted to make sparkling wine. We didn't learn a ton about sparkling wine making at Davis. And so I thought, oh, this will be a great opportunity. Also, I was broke and so you can start July as opposed to August. That helped a lot. And then they also made great Russian River Pinot Noir. So it's just fun to kind of do the whole seasonal aspect of it. Yeah. And then got hired on as a lab tech for there for about a year. And then it was like being J Vineyards and Winery is owned by Judy Jordan, John Jordan, now our current CEO's sister. And so it was like kind of being called up to big leagues to go over to Jordan and I was hired as their anologist in 2006. Wow. Okay. So short order, you joined up with Jordan and you've been there ever since. Yeah, 20 years. So when were you moved into, from Ineology into winemaking, winemaking? Who did you replace? So that's the fun history of Jordan. We've only had one other winemaker. So Rob Davis, he was hired in by Andrei Chelyachev in 1976. And he thought he was coming for a quick internship, just a few months to do a harvest. And then he ended up staying for I think 43 years it was. So we were really fortunate. We've only had two winemakers that I've been able to train under Rob. So we really pride ourselves on having that consistency. We shared a palate. We could finish each other's sentences. It was pretty awesome to work with him. How cool is that? You trained under him and you had this really in sync relationship there. Is that how you kind of developed this idea for or able to maintain the style of Jordan? Or were you given a little bit of autonomy to make it your own as you came into the winemaking role? I was assistant winemaker in 2009 and then took over. Rob left Jordan and I took over fully in 2019. When I started at Jordan, John Jordan had just taken over their winery from his parents. He just acquired it. We had really started to new blood in there. He wanted to make an even better Cabernet. We had really focused on for those first early years of getting better fruit sourcing and just trying to really elevate the winery. We did a ton of renovations and so we had changed a lot in that first 10 year. Then when I took over 2019, John was like, well, we focused so much on the Cab, like let's talk about the Chardonnay. I was like, great, I have some ideas with the 2023 that we're currently. 7:51 Chardonnay Evolution We can finally talk about the Chardonnay. You like that. It smells really good and I've been keeping that inside. Greg, have you ever smelled like partially fermented Chardonnay and Oak Barrel? I don't think so. You should find a way to do that because it is the most intoxicating smell ever. It is all that super ripe banana clovey type thing happening. Yeah. It drives me nuts thinking about it. You say this in regards to this one. This is Chardonnay. Yeah. This is the white that we're trying. Because this has some of those ester flavors that you're describing. But you get excited about the Chardonnay. I was like, this is like Chardonnay on steroids before it's even Chardonnay. I guess it's always Chardonnay. I'm going to go ponder that. Maggie, take it away. There's a lot of people out there that are like, oh, I don't like Chardonnay. That's the only variety I don't drink. I call them my ABCs, anything but Chardonnay. But then they'll try Jordan because ours are, it's very different. They'll let people think, oh, California or Russian River, you're going to be super oaky, super buttery. It's vibrant. It's so fresh and bright. It's racy and acidity. A lot of the changes that I made is we, Russian River is a huge appellation. We were getting some of the warmer areas of Russian River, so we've moved further west, Pacific Ocean, so we're getting more of that coastal fog influence, and so it's cooler climate. I'm getting that ripeness and flavors at a lower sugar, which means a lower alcohol and a higher acid, which is totally my style. There's the green apple acidity in here too. Yes, thank you. Yeah, and then a nice citrus on top of that. It's great. Down to 12.7. Yeah. That's crazy. I know, it's like European. Yeah, right. And then one thing I really wanted to do, I told John Jordan, I'm like, I went to the Sonoma County Wine Tech Group in like 2007, so many years before I took over wine making, and we had the seminar where it was the same, you know, basic wine, Yeah. And I was like, God, the concrete was so vibrant, so alive, and it was really fresh and amazing. I'd always kind of kept that in the back of my mind. So I told John, I'm like, can I just buy one concrete egg? They're like 400 gallons, it's not very huge impact, it's something to experiment with. And he said, sure, go for it. So in 2021, I bought one, and then in 2022, I'm like, I need seven more. And it's been great. I think you kind of get that little freshness on that finish that makes you want to take another sip with that acidity and that concrete influence. So co-ferment, you do barrel and then concrete, or I'm sorry, concrete and then barrel, or separate and then blend. You know, I'm a creative person, every year it's different. So sometimes- Just go with vibes. Sometimes I love a certain blend and I'll leave it in the concrete for an entire, for the whole aging period of six months. And then sometimes I'm like, okay, let's give it a little concrete, fermented in there, and then let's pull it out and put something else in there and spread the love. So it really depends on the specific vintage. That's super cool. That's fun. The nose is so dominated by this banana and peach, and never becomes overly sweet, crisp acidity all the way through the finish. Sauvignon Blanc drinkers Chardonnay? Yeah. Is that right to say? I think so. But a Sauvignon Blanc drinker is scared. Yeah, right. It's scared of a barrel until they're drinking like Farah Krona Fume and they're like, I don't know if this is a barrel. I can agree as a Sauvignon Blanc drinker. I'm not reaching towards a Chardonnay. I am the ABC, but this is exciting. Oh, good. I really like a wine with a high acid. I like most things with a high acid. Maybe my palate's a little fried, but I would drink this all the time. You just want something fresh tasting. It makes you want to take another sip and keep going. Something I always talk about is a wine that's fun and not just so serious. And so I think that this is one of those wines for sure. Yeah, it's easy drinking. It pairs well with really nice fine cuisine. I've had it with risotto, but it's so good with just plain oysters or by itself. Yeah, you don't have to be so crazy. We really wanted to. We could think about this wine for another 10 minutes and just continue rumiating over it, but we're just going to continue to want to drink it. And yeah, Greg, you're right. There is a through line there for Sauvignon Blanc drinkers, absolutely. But I think there's a luxurious component to this wine where it can play in very casual settings, but also in this steakhouse atmosphere that was the, I guess, where Jordan wines have really become famous and synonymous in that kind of world because Absolutely. But this transcended. Now you can start putting this into Italian steakhouses, which is only a thing in Chicago. But like Seafood Fair and Italian Fair and all sorts of different restaurants and other settings. For sure. Something that a lot of people don't realize as well is that you can actually age Chardonnay. We're very French in style, so we love to put a little age on it. Yesterday, my coworker and I were having the 2018 with some Psalms and it was tasting so good. It was really nice and fresh and the oak was a little more prominent just because of the age, but man, it was singing. You guys do offer a library release on Cabernet, which we'll talk about in a little bit, but do you do the same on Chardonnay? We do. In certain markets, and Chicago is a great one for us, we do have some library wines. Library Chardonnay, excuse me. Very cool. 13:12 Jordan Winery History Talk about Jordan and its inception to the best that you can. We weren't there, but tell us Jordan, how it came to be, how it planted its roots, and how those first vineyards started. Okay, so we started in 1972 by Tom and Sally Jordan. They were big Francophiles. They wanted to start a business that they could, you know, really get their family involved, and they kept talking about, God, we love everything about French wine, food, culture, all of it. So they thought, let's try and buy a winery. And their favorite growing region was Bordeaux, and so they tossed that idea around a while, but they had a young family, and they're like, we live in Denver right now, that's probably not gonna work. There's this great story that Tom and Sally have their favorite restaurant in San Francisco at Ernie's, and very fine dining. And the sommelier and staff knew them very well, and he said, can I pour a wine blind for you? You have such European palates, I'd love to see what you think. And so they smelled it, they tasted it, and they're like, okay, it's very high acid, it's low in alcohol, it's really nicely balanced, great fruit. And they assumed it was Bordeaux. And the sommelier was like, actually, it's Bullion Vineyard, the Georges de la Tour Cabernet, and it was a 1968 vintage, I believe. So Tom and Sally were shocked, they had no idea that California was making wines of this caliber, because most of it was white wine and sweet white wine that was being consumed at that time. So then they got the idea of really, we could do this, we could do this in California. So they looked in Napa Valley, and then they decided, well, let's just check out Sonoma. And at the time, Alexander Valley was prunes and apple orchards in the late 60s, early 70s. So not a lot of grapes grown. There's a story where Tom is standing out in the field, and this Pacific fog blows off, and the sun is on his face, and he's just like, this is going to be so good for Vordo varietals. So he started planting, he purchased 300 acres in the valley floor of Alexander Valley and started planting Cabernet Amarillo in 72. Okay. And who was helping him in the beginning? He had a vineyard staff early on, but so then Mrs. Jordan gets involved and she's like, all right, we need the right wine maker. So they found out who made that wine, the Bullion Vineyards, George Latour, and it was Andrei Chelyachev who's consulted for so many incredible wineries in Napa and Sonoma. And Andrei was at the point of his career, he's like, well, I don't really want to be your head wine maker, but I'm happy to consult. So he hired Rob Davis, who was just a student at UC Davis. They said he was just coming for an intern and stayed for 43 years. I love that. I love that. Like Papa Jordan was just like, we'll be fine. We got these guys. Papa Jordan was like, no, you go talk to that man right now, and ask him how to make wine, you go. Oh yeah, she's a savvy woman. Where the winery actually is, where the building, the chateau is located, it's 1,300 acres. She saw the property on this amazing hillside. It wasn't for sale, so she found out who owned it, and she realized she actually hired a private investigator to find it. Oh my God. And found out it was these three children had recently inherited it from their parents, and they didn't, two wanted to sell, and one didn't want to sell, or however it worked out. So she found out that they really loved bass fishing. So she purchased a huge bass fishing property in Oregon and proposed a land swap, and they went for it. So that's how we- Oh my goodness. And then she started the construction of her chateau. I mean, if you come to Jordan, it looks like a French chateau in California. It's pretty unbelievable. And the grounds are incredible. So we have a full-time culinary staff and a dining room. We have overnight guest accommodations. We have three suites and a guest house. It is definitely more than just a wiry. All right. Look, we got a slushy machine. Who would you go and ask, can it slush? Who's the pioneer in slushy beverages? 7-Eleven. Who's the chouchuff of slush? Mr. 7-Eleven. Mr. Icy. We're going to New Orleans. We got to find this guy. Yeah. Wow. That's an amazing history. Sounds amazing. I feel like this story, like a little land swap, you don't hear about stuff like that. That's the cool thing about being family owned. I mean, there's so many wineries out there that have a family name that there's no one to deal with from the family dealing with the winery at all. So, I mean, John Jordan is there 70s a week. He lives on property. He has his own little clubhouse without his hanger and he's a pilot. So he has a little plane out there. Like, I mean, it's John Topia. He's, he greets every single guest that comes in because his mom taught him all about hospitality and it's really important that we make and create Jordan ambassadors when they come visit it. We wanted them to have an amazing experience so that they continue to drink our wine all the time. So there's really an amazing like through line of women in wine with Jordan, like really pioneering between, you know, Mama Jordan and yourself and then the sister doing Jay Winery too, which I never knew. Yes, yes. Judy owned, she started Jay. It actually started, The Sparkling started making it at Jordan and then they got big enough that they had to buy their own property. She has since sold the winery and she's doing lots of other amazing things. People always talk about how there aren't many female winemakers, but there really aren't many female winery owners. So to work for Judy was pretty amazing and see her run everything. Yeah. What does women in wine in a wine growing area feel like? Are there more, is there a good group? Yeah, absolutely. Is there collaboration? Oh, totally. I feel like there's so many women in the wine industry. I know that I do a lot of interviews and things like, what's it like? I've been very fortunate and I've always had lots of female mentors. When I graduated from Davis, there were more females than males. I've been lucky enough to start at a time where there's a ton of females in the industry. Outside of the Jordan family wineries, have you had a North Star either in terms of winemaking or career-wise? I always say Cathy Corson. I was a young student at Davis. My parents were visiting me and they wanted to go wine tasting. She came out, she found out I was at Davis and was like, I just want to spend some time with you. She was so lovely and so encouraging that I've always kept that in mind. Not only do I love her wines, but she was just such an amazing person. I saw her maybe a year or two ago and I reminded her that she had done that. She was just so sweet and lovely and just a great human. That's really cool. Yeah. That's so cool. 19:41 Cabernet Craft Getting back to this idea of blending and you're getting a little bit of free rein to just play around with this. Talk about blending and Jordan because even the Cabernets are not all single plots, single vineyard, all that. Talk about vineyards. Didn't you guys just acquire fairly recently some new vineyard land? Yes, you've done your research. I like it. Moving to the Cabernet, we did in 2021, we had previously to that, we had worked with a specific grower, Mario Miola, who's this really sweet Italian man. We just really love the fruit we were working with him. Then when we saw that the vineyard became for sale, we took a look and it was a sure thing. We knew it was a great soil. It's Northern Geyserville. It's right along the Russian River. It gives us just another component to play with and have control over. We've done so much on our estate in the last 50 years of replanting recently. We have 1,300 acres of Jordan, right? Only about 100 of them are planted to vines. We've learned a lot about vineyards since the 1970s. Not everywhere on our estate is great for growing grapes. We've just really found the perfect sites for growing Bordeaux varietals. I've been working with our ranch manager. I'm like, it's really hard to find a great Merlot right now, just because of the price per ton is lower than Cabernet. If you're a grower and you're pulling a vineyard out, you want to put Cabernet back in the ground. I understand. But Merlot is essential to our blend. You need that softness and that richness to fill out in the big bulky tannic Cabernet. We've been growing Merlot, Petit Bordeaux, and Malbec on the estate as well. On the estate. Our current estate, like the 1300 acres. In Alexander Valley, yeah. Correct. Then that new piece of property that we purchased in Geyserville, also in Alexander Valley, we've replanted two different clones of Cabernet. So, the Lofite Cone, Clone 2, and then a Hyde clone that we're just really excited about. That's awesome. Yeah. That's a lot to play with. How often are you looking for additional vineyard space? Because Sonoma is not entirely vined out, is it? I'd say we're reaching our maxes of right now. Yeah. There's still some outer reaches in your moon mountains and whatnot that are getting redeveloped a little bit more than saying, finding new places to plant, right? Correct. Yes. Yeah. So where else do you want to find vineyard space in Sonoma? We're always in the market for the right spot, so we love this northern Geyserville area. It's funny when Rob was changing up the fruit sourcing in the mid-2000s, he found one area that he absolutely loved working with and he just started going to the neighbors and trespassing and trespassing. So we were buying all the fruit around this Geyserville area, and we lovingly called it the Cote de Jordan, because it just was like... It's really... I mean, you know our style. It's very approachable and we don't like that we're still also low alcohol in the Cabernet. So we have to have the right site where you get that beautiful fresh fruit at a lower sugar. And that's not everywhere in Alexander Valley. So it's really a specific kind of area that we can achieve that. Yeah. So talk about Cabernet and their bored over-isles that you're growing. What happens when they get to you in the winery? So I'm a control freak. I love to be... I'm out in the vineyard a lot with our grower relations manager. And then I also love to be there for every single load of fruit, whether that's in at 1 a.m. or it's late at night. I have to be there to smell and taste it because that's when it's really happening and it's all starting and it's the truest expression of that grape. Do you ever just bring grapes in at like 2 in the morning? I'm so excited. We're going to start making wine now. Yes. Fantastic. All of our Chardonnay is picked in the middle of the night, so our first load is usually ready at 1 a.m., which is when my team gets there. No one's waiting until like 8 a.m. We're just going for it. No. I have some growers that are like, you'll take fruit at 4 a.m. for Cabernet. I'm like, yeah, let's go. It's a big party. Plus, it's just doing the best part of your job and only having to focus on that when you're in the middle of the night. There's no one from accounting or sales or anything trying to talk to you. It's just you and your team crushing fruit and having a blast. I love Harvest. I live for it. That sounds fun. You should work one. Yeah, there we go. I did because I don't like waking up that early. Oh, I love it. Not for me. I've had a few interns like you. Kicking my ass around a bin, you're like, BANG! OK, and then Cabernet, also seeing Concrete, also seeing Oak, a little change in Barrel Regiment lately as well. Yes. So at the 2015 Vintage, I keep talking about how our fruit sourcing got better and better. Traditionally, in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, we always used a combination of French and American Oak, but usually about two-thirds French, one-third American. And as the fruit sourcing got better and better, we just realized that the American Oak was masking some of those fruit flavors we had really worked so hard to get. And so we went to John Jordan, we said, hey, can we switch to 100 percent French Oak? And mind you, I mean, at the time, American Oak was probably $800 a barrel, and then the French Oak was about $1,100 a barrel. So you have to pay more per barrel. And due to the density of oak, you were going to lose more for evaporation in the French Oak, about 10 to 15 percent more over American Oak. And we would need to purchase more barrels overall. So it was like more money per barrel, more loss and more barrels. Biggest sound business man, he said, yes, yes, we'll do that. You know, it was a tougher pill to swallow, but he was like, no, if you tell me it's going to make better wine and better quality. If you use the quality word with John, he's always on board. It's pretty, pretty awesome. This is 100% French oak? Yes. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. But it's not 100% Cabernet, is it? No, it's not. Tell us. This one I believe is about 87% Cabernet, and then about 10% Merlot, and then the rest is a combination of Petit Bordeaux and Malbec. And to the poor listeners that haven't bought this yet, and are drinking with us, this is the 2021 vintage current, right? Correct. Current release. 21 was such a great year too. It was just like a textbook vintage, if you could write it the way you want it to go. Everything was totally on time in springtime, no issues with frost or intense heat. And then the summer was just mild climate, no big issues. We had a little bit of heat, Labor Day weekend, just to kind of get harvest started, but nothing too detrimental, and kind of just everything was ready, right? Nice and even. So it's really excited for this vintage to finally come out. Something else about Jordan is that we're also, we want to be restaurant ready. So it's 12 months of aging, 12 to 14 in Barrel, and then it's an additional two years of bottle aging. So it's four years before our Cabernet hits the market. We want it to be ready to roll. And it is, and even with that slightly more age than a lot of Winery's current releases, this is bound up. It's like a puma that's about to jump on something. You know what I mean? It's like wound up like a spring. That's awesome. I meant that as a compliment. No, I love that. It's a new descriptor for you. I haven't heard that one. It's ready to bounce into your basket. Lexi, did you try it yet? I did. We're getting there. I want to know if you feel like this is equally as accessible as the shard. I mean, it's sleek. It's thinky. Yeah. And just again, textbook Kirsch fruit. Kirsch. Yeah. And raspberry. Yeah. I would buy it. Nailed it. Just to plug the source for a minute, we have Jordan 2021 on the shelf right now. It is on sale from 59.99 to 49.99, and that's going to run through August. So I would definitely buy it. And this is under $50 for this bottle right now. Wow. Yeah. At Cabernet, we still try to be an affordable luxury. I mean, that's if you look at a lot of our competitors and the way we make wine and a lot of people we buy grapes from, like this is a pretty affordable Cabernet. That's what makes Sonoma and Alexander Valley specifically so interesting because you can have $20 wine, you can have $120 wine and everything in between and a few more and a few less. How does that all exist in the same place? Is it just sheer size or is it just quality of winemaking or versatility? I think it's your winemaking decisions. It depends on, I mean, oak barrels are expensive, right? And grapes are expensive. So it really depends on where you're sourcing your fruit from. Are you going from that really great hillside fruit? And what kind of oak retchement you want. And it's such a big region, there's a lot of diversity in place that you could get stuff from. Absolutely. What is it, like 60,000 hectares or something like that? Oh my gosh. Yeah, roughly that. Yeah. That's just massive. But John Jordan and his parents started this in 76, that we've always wanted to be something that's somewhat affordable so that you can actually, everyone can enjoy it and attain it. It's a celebration wine, but he tries very hard to not have it take a large price increase regularly. Cabernet No. 2, as we pour. Did Mama Jordan ever approach you with an offer for something that's suspiciously is already your favorite? You know, like, well, all this cloak and dagger espionage that she did in order to I'm really airing the dirty laundry. to work this drain a landslop. Did she ever be like, hey, we hear that you like butterscotch. What if we, have you ever thought about having a butterscotch factory? You're like, what? No. She's like, sell it. No. Well, that's actually terrifying. That's what I'm trying to say. It's really troubling. She is amazing. Fortunately, I started there when John was over there and he's not quite as. Swapping of things. 29:14 Vintage Deep Dive This next wine is our 2012 Cabernet. 2012 was just an awesome vintage. It was just, everything was so perfect. Bud break, there was lots of buds out there. Everything bloomed at the same time. It was really high-yielding vintage, and then the growing season was just absolutely perfect. So, we were so happy with the fruit, and Rob, who's not a dramatic man at all, was like, we were out there at the crush pit, and he's like, he put his hand out his my arm, and he was like, you've got to remember this vintage. You will never have another year where it tastes this great, and there's this much yields. Everyone was happy, growers were happy, we were happy. It was just a really fun year. We just called it a big party, the entire vintage. It's so easy when you get fruit like that, and you can't pick a favorite tank, it's awesome. For being, how old is it? It smells so youthful. It's real juicy, fruity. Juicy, fruity. Yeah, like pomegranate fruit juice. I mean, there's not a lot of tertiary notes. There's a little bit of minty herbal thing, and then an orange liqueur sweetness across the end of the palate, that seems like not primary red fruit to me, but that's it. Otherwise, it seems very youthful. Yes. A lot of it has to do with our low alcohol and high acid. I mean, the acidity is preventing it from aging too quickly, so we love that you can age our wines for 15, 20 plus years. 2012, this guy had some American in there, right? A little bit. There's a lick of dill in here. Yes, absolutely. It's just about a small percent. I think it's maybe 20 percent, if that. Lexi, were you about to comment on the age of this wine or the vintage itself? I tend to get pretty intimidated when I see an older wine. Around here, sometimes we do this really scary thing called Ancient Wine Friday. Everyone's been on it. This is nowhere near ancient. Well, but I've gotten this thing where I'm like, oh gosh, it's a little bit older and it's going to taste like soy sauce. Here we go again. They do it. They're like, it's good for your palate. Try it. I know, but everybody's like, oh, don't you appreciate it? They're like, no, no, this tastes gross. It's bad. I'm sorry. I want to. I don't. So, I see something that's a little bit older and I get nervous and this doesn't taste like it's, I mean, what, 14 years old? Yeah. It doesn't taste, I mean, I couldn't tell the difference between this, something newer and this one. We're just saying a lot from me who doesn't drink. So, this is 2012. This is what's currently becoming available in the general market as a library release. Talk about, I mean, not all vintage has been as fun and easy as 2012, but what other vintages kind of went similar to this or what's starting to show right now? The 2016, very similar vintage. Little Martanen, this I find the 12 was a little bit on the more on the softer side, very rich. But the 2016 is tasting really great, very similar fruit profile, and that's readily available in both 750 and Magnum. Okay. If we can talk about Magnum's, I would bottle everything. Bigger is better, people. I would bottle everything in a Magnum if I could. It just is such a, like, because of the volume, you can age it so much longer, and it's, I had the 2012 in Magnum last night, actually. That was perfect. And it was, it tasted very different, really youthful. I mean, you, it did, I mean, I would have thought it was maybe a four or five year old wine. And so in Magnum, it's just really, it's humming. Nice. And then going back further for our Jordan collectors and enthusiasts, what should they be pulling the cork on? If they're, if it's sitting around their cellars? I had 2009 last night. That was tasting great. 2008 is really, really nice as well. I've had quite a bit from the 90s are really delicious. The 80s, you gotta really like those tertiary characters. Not for you. Probably not. Gabe, are you sitting on like a library of these wines and you're asking for advice here? Yeah, I feel like he is. I didn't come over. I wish I was, but there is 07, 05, 04 in three liters sitting around the chain right now. So just kind of get an idea of maybe where some of those vintages are. This 2012 I believe is in stock some places as well in a three liter. Oh, a three liter. You heard it from the source. That's a party. That is a party. Three liters and those vintages are going to be so good right now. I would not hesitate to sit on them a little bit longer, but I bet especially the 07, that was another vintage like the 2012, just absolutely beautiful. Those are all going to be tasting great for quite some few more decades. Great to know. This is a little treat. I agree with you Lexi. There's plenty of times where I've just, I just don't like old, old wine. I appreciate it and I've been pleasantly surprised with things around 25 years old and 20 years old. But I've just recognized that past that, especially on Bordeaux style wines, I don't care about anything that's older than 25 years old. I stopped looking for birth year wines. It's just tired. It's more tired than I am. Happens as you get old. Yeah, absolutely. But it's not a treat anymore unless it is going to be the 50 year wines of the tours of the world. We're like, all right, that's 50 years old. I should just try that. But some is like... Sherry and Riesling, really old ones. That's where it's still good. But even some of those Rieslings is like, not what I want. Yeah, I know. I want acid to smack me, not just like dusty old submarine. Do you ever lick the inside of a submarine? Yes. Have you ever visited the submarine? We have a submarine in Chicago, by the way. You do know this. Go visit it, step foot into it, and tell me it doesn't smell like oxidized wine, because it's just old iron, and that's all it is. I can't wait to lick it. Okay, thank you. Get off that, lady. It's a place of learning. You're like, darn tootin. We've talked about Cabernet, we've talked about Chardonnay. We haven't talked about Jordan Sauveterans. Y'all got Sauveterans with their name on it, and champagne. What? So the Sauveteran is a new partnership for us. It's actually winery only unfortunately. So come see us at Jordan and we'll pour you some. On my way. So it all started for Tom Jordan, also loved Sauveteran. He loved E. Kim, and so he went to Rob Davis and said, let's make a Sauveteran style wine. We can plant Sauvignon Blanc and Sauvignon on the estate, and let's see what happens. Well, Alexander Valley isn't perfect for growing in botrytis wine. Every single vintage, you really need the perfect growing conditions. So Rob successfully made what we call our Sauveteran style as the Riviera Roos. 82, 83, and 1985. So we always loved to serve it at the wineries, but it was really small, and it was just something we always had at our dinners. So we had run out of it, unfortunately, we had a very limited amount. So we wanted to bring it back and have a four-year anniversary of the first vintage. So they asked, can you make a Sauveteran style wine? I'm like, no. Oh, my gosh. In Alexander Valley with this high heat, I just didn't see how it actually be successful in their time frame. So I said, why don't we, when we've done some other partnerships, why don't we work with a actual true Sauveteran and see what we can do? So we talked to Chateau Guirault and they were so wonderful. They also have a restaurant on site. They have very much into hospitality and it's been a great partnership, something we just started. So we currently have the 2022 Sauveteran at the winery from Chateau Guirault and it's just something so great to have at dinners and to either finish or start the meal. Okay, that's awesome. So it's not a collaboration. You're not like sending them barrels or anything like that, right? It's just an exclusive for you guys. Correct. I do not have any and then winemaking. I'll leave that up to the others. That sounds like a great option to be like, send me over to Barsec for a little bit, would you? Oh, totally. Yeah, I got to dip my toes in that. I'm happy to observe, but I know my limitations. Fair enough. What's the label say? It says Jordan and Chateau Guiro on there. You have white label Chateau Guiro. That's really cool. Okay. Sweet. You were impressed by the plane. He's got his own Saturn. Also, wait, real quick, you said something that I had never thought of, or maybe no one's ever told me before, but a Saturn first, and then food, and then after. Okay. Yeah. Not just for after. No, not just for after. You can start your meal with some Flau Gras and Saturn, and it is the right way to start a meal. It's an excellent idea. Yeah. We'll go out after this. Yeah, there we go. Lexi, didn't you tell me that you tried slushing some Sudaro not a long ago? I haven't listened to the podcast. Will it slush? That one didn't make the podcast. It did not make the podcast. It did not slush. It didn't slush? It kind of... So sorry to the winery. It totally ruined the wine. It totally ruined the wine. Once it hit the appropriate temperature again, it was fine, kind of, but it was not. It didn't quite happen. You had to water it down to do it. It was... No, no slushing. That's why we can do science. That's why we commit science. Well, that's why you have to do science so that somebody doesn't take their Sudaro home and be like, or, you know, if they're at Jordan and be like, would you mind slushing this for me? Yes, I would. I would very much mind. No, the answer is no. We will not. All right, lightning round questions. Outside of Chicago, which is obviously first, what's your favorite market to get milk runned around in? Ooh, good question. I'm gonna upset some people with this answer. I know. I said favorite, not most hated. Right? I love Florida. People drink a lot of wine down in there. Miami's super fun because we're European in our wine style. I find Miami's a great market for us because there's such an international city. So Miami's a blast. I bet you'd do good in Phoenix then too. It's the Miami of the West. Yeah. Totally. Well, Texas is just the biggest California wine market, isn't it? It's a great market for us, for sure. I mean, like you said earlier, we are steakhouse wine. I mean, people always want our Cabernet with steak. So of course, Texas is gonna do really well for us. And everyone's just so nice down there too. What's your proudest non-steakhouse placement? Ooh. There's gotta be like a really great Thai restaurant somewhere. Right? There's something. Gosh. Also, how many placements are you getting? Is this also your job? Yeah. Yes. Yeah? Yeah. We have a new national sales, or national accounts person, and she has me hustling. Let me tell you, she's having me on a Disney cruise in the Bahamas and Chicago here today, and she's got me everywhere. That's awesome. So it's not a main part of my job. I just get brought out for fun things and something where they need an actual wine maker. If you could name the most austere placement that you knew you were in, I'm sure there's places that sell Jordan wine that you're like, I don't know that. That's fine. For sure. Yeah. There's no way to be able to track every single bottle. Our sales team would know much better about an austere placement. What's the presence in the European market look like? Starting to grow, working on it. The same national accounts person does export and she's fantastic. That's crazy to me that the Europeans would actually pour our wine. I think that's really cool. I was sent an article that they did about the winery that had my picture and it was totally in Swedish. I was like, oh, no idea. They can say I'm a horrible person, but I thought it was rad. You're overcoming this Homerism that they have. I was in Norway last summer in Bergen in a hotel, and there was, speaking of Korsen, a great collection of Korsen at this restaurant in the hotel. That's amazing. Going back to the mid-2000s, this is nuts. Why? Why here? Yeah, that's awesome. You said Disney Cruise? I'm still stuck on the Disney Cruise. Yes. Are you doing a Disney private label? Disney Cruise has brought us on board, and so we got to go and just hang out with Mickey. Mickey can't drink. I did learn that Mickey is too young or pose with a bottle. We tried to do that. Is Mickey like Elmo and is three and a half years old always? Yes, literally. We stood in line with all the little girls in more princess dresses with our bottles of wine and they said, No Mickey, he's not old enough to drink, excuse me. What's your favorite bitter liqueur? Ooh, I got to say chartreuse. Yeah, you've got friends in this room. Please don't slush it. Oh, we're going to try. I think we should try to slush a last word. I'm looking around to see if there isn't a bottle of Malort here, so we could change her opinion. It's probably a bottle. The tire fires elsewhere. Yeah. I have tried it. It's not my favorite. What is the wine equivalent of Malort? Now, I'm going to make some real enemies. That's your opting for no answer. Fair enough. Yes. Plead the faith. I looked you guys up on social before, and I would love to visit this place, I'm assuming is where this is. Yes, the Chateau. Gorgeous. If other people are listening and are curious about the Chateau, the Instagram feed is out of this world. Thank you. Thank you. That takes a lot of work. We encourage people to come and visit, and we have a full culinary staff, and we even have a pastry chef. Our chef, Jesse Maulgrid, is absolutely incredible. He earned a Michelin star in his previous restaurant, and held on to it for many years. He's not only that, a great talent, but so nice. And so he does all the food pairings. You will not come to Jordan without having some sort of food component paired with each individual wine. And we have lots of seasonal experiences. Right now, we just kicked off a few weeks ago, our estate tour, where you get on a Sprinter van with 12 people, and you go and you do a three-hour tour. It's not Gilligan's Island, but it is- Cool. You get to see the entire 1300-acre estate and go to our organic garden, and then you end up having library cabernets at our Vista Point, where you can see Dry Creek and Mount St. Alina and Russian River. I mean, it's just an absolutely beautiful spot. We even do holiday offerings. We have a Christmas tour and we have a Halloween tour, because we are big on holidays at Jordan. We have this insane Halloween party every single year for the trade. So we love to decorate, and of course, it's always the winemaking areas. I always want to do this stuff in the barrel room and all of that, but it's amazing. So there's all kinds of seasonal offerings, and I highly encourage if you do come to Jordan, we want to make an appointment, because we are all focused about hospitality and food. So it really helps if we can plan your day for you. That sounds great. What else is on those properties? Because you're talking about 1,300 acres? Correct. Yeah. So what else is happening out there? Is there things to biodiversity? Is it all geared somehow to that estate vineyard, or is it just broader things growing? We've owned the 1,300 acre property for a long time, but the Jordans have always been stewards of the land. So we've never just overgrown with vineyards. So we currently have about 100 acres of vineyards planted. And then we have our chef's organic garden, we have miniature donkeys, we have goats, we have cattle on the property. They've really helped us out with fire grazing in the back of the property. They really saved us in 2019 from the fire coming onto Jordan property. We have solar, we have bass fishing lake, and so we have John Jordan's house. We've got all kinds of different things on the property. We're really, we are fish-friendly farming and certified sustainable on the property, so. Not here in the slushing machine. No slushing machine. We have olive oil, we have an olive orchard, which is amazing. That is the correct flex to having visited a winery. Like yes, buying wine is cool, but if you come back from a winery and you don't have olive oil, you were at the wrong winery. That's cool, too. Probably. So because they've always owned this property, you don't necessarily feel this need to, it's always kind of, it's sustainability and just being like eco-friendly and just conscious of what we have is what we want to be able to carry on. Is that the reason why you haven't been maybe geared towards putting all that on a label somehow? Or are there other marketing ways of kind of showing how sustainable the Jordan Winery is? We really focus on just trying to bring people to the winery, get Jordan-fied, like come see how we do things and see the whole property and continue to come back because there's just more and more to see all the time. So, we're not going to do a big back label story or anything like that, but we want people to experience it and we found that that's always, the way it's worked for us for marketing is that you become a Jordan brand loyalty member. Cool. So, a four and a half hour flight from Chicago, and then you land in San Francisco, and then an hour and 15-minute car ride, and you can be a Jordan? Yes. Being from Milwaukee, I go back to Milwaukee often. I can fly out of my little airport, Santa Rosa. And so, they'll fly to Phoenix or Dallas on American Airlines, and then get to Chicago real easily, or you can go out of Seattle, and then you're only 15 minutes from the winery. Perfect. So, a little Santa Rosa STS airport is great, and they have the wine flies free. So, if you buy a case, you don't have to pay. And that's the insider scoop that our listeners should be listening to. So, if I can get wine cheap back home, it's great. Absolutely. But make an appointment, people. Yes. Thank you for sharing these delicious wines and your passion and your stories. And now I want to go to California. And we all do. Thank you. This was fun. And thank you for listening to Barrel to Bottle, The Binny's Podcast back in your feed next week, probably with something that's kind of frozen, kind of not frozen. I don't know. Until then, I'm Greg. I'm Gabe. I'm Lexi. And I'm Maggie. Keep tasting.