So, it's a little after 11 a.m. on a Friday. Chris is making us daiquiris. Thanks, Chris. Yeah, this will be fun. There's, what, six bottles of rum on the table, five bottles of rum on the table? Roger's excited. Good Friday. Yeah. I was told to basically ration one bottle per person, no? Is that the instructions? That is the standard operating procedure. Yeah. Great. Great. Hey, welcome back to Barrel to Bottle, The Binny's Podcast. I'm Pat, the Director of Spirit Sales here at Binny's. Chris is still shaking daiquiris. We got a few people in the room today. What's going on, Roger? Hey, Roger here. I do beer for Binny's, also a long time rum enthusiast. Rum enthusiast. Chris is here too, Chris from the wine department. We have a special guest today. We have Marc Farrell, founder and CEO of Ten to One Rum. Welcome, Marc. It's great to be here, great to be here. Pleasure to spend a little Friday afternoon with you guys. Nice, we appreciate your time. Come on man, finish those up. Should we be live-narrating Chris shaking these cocktails? He's garnishing them, too. That looks delicious. And we have some marketing stooges in the corner, who need cocktails, too? Sorry, guys. Yeah. This is just like the cocktail entourage. Stooges first. Oh, you lost your garnish. It turns out your popularity rises significantly when you walk around with rum all the time, you know? There's always somebody who wants a cocktail somewhere, so. Marc, what's your preferred rum cocktail? Well, preferred cocktail with the white classic daiquiri, exactly as we're having it. Maybe I'll mix it up a little bit, switch to a Hemingway, or maybe make it a little spicy, with the dark rum rum old-fashioned all day, every day. Rum old-fashioned with dark rum. Yeah. Great drink. Yeah. The best. We've often tried to convey to our listeners that the daiquiri is such a great misrepresented drink. A lot of people just think of those places in New Orleans that have a bunch of slushy machines. You order such a bastardized drink here. Banana, tango, mango. Literally the bane of my existence. Any opportunity to convince folks that the daiquiri is actually the simplest, most elegant cocktail you can create. We saw Chris in the corner there working it, but it's just a little bit of rum, citrus, and some simple syrup or agave. Clean, elegant, delicious. Thanks for all that hard work, Chris. We appreciate it. Well, this is a nice daiquiri. Hey, Chris. Welcome back. Hi. I'm Chris. I'm working at daiquiri at 11 AM. Yeah. Well, it's Friday. Cheers, guys. Cheers, guys. Good to be here. I guess we'll start from the beginning, Marc. You are from Trinidad, is that correct? That is correct. Okay. You want to give us a background on your personal history with rum and how you ended up founding a rum brand? Yeah. I guess a series of bad decisions along the way. That's the quick answer. But no, born and raised in Trinidad and Tobago, very proud of Trinidad and spent the first 16 years or so of my life in Trinidad before moving here to the US. I've been in the US now for over 20 years at this point. So my entire adult life has been here. I always describe myself as somebody who has one foot immersed in everyday Caribbean culture. My family is still at home there, that's my entire cultural mooring. And the other foot immersed in everyday US consumer culture. My entire adult life has been here as a consumer. So rum near and dear to me, to my entire family. By the way, my mom gets a little upset with this portion of the bio where I talk about being a lifelong rum drinker. She's like, you got to stop telling people that. What are they going to think? I'm like, yeah, mom, like, you know, when I became an adult, but you know, ton of passion for the spirit. If you guys were at home in Trinidad with us, you're invited after this, we're all friends. Nice. You know, any moment of celebration, whether it's carnival, Christmas, birthdays, weddings, right? Rum kind of plays a central role in all of those celebrations. So, you know, it just kind of becomes interwoven into the fabric of how you think about everything from family, community, celebration and all of those things. I lived in the US., as I said, for over 20 years, and I have been continuously frustrated by, I think, the perception of the spirit, and the perception of the category here. Everyone here is nodding around the table, but how do you get consumers to get on board with this sort of rum revolution that we're trying to create? Trying to get you away from this perception of rum being those sugary, slushy cocktails we were just talking about a second ago. Make them a real daiquiri. Make them a real daiquiri. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Listen, one daiquiri at a time. That's kind of how we got to go do this. That's how we got to do this. Chris is going to be busy for a few hours after this, guys. It's going to be a very slow moving revolution. Very slow moving, but very intentional. Very intentional. I do everything with intent. Exactly. Core principle. But for me, now I was really kind of at the heart of it. I think at some point when you're frustrated about something, you may be decided you want to go do something about it. My whole career had been in consumer. I love creating brands. I love telling stories. I love those moments of connection. For me, Ten to One is super personal. It's this whole idea of creating something that is done through the lens of who you are, where you're from, and what you care about. That was the genesis of the early Ten to One story. What's that with the name? It's got something to do with the Prime Minister of Trinidad and Tobago? Yeah. As you talk about intention, the name Ten to One is inspired by the original Caribbean Federation, which consisted of 10 countries. Quite literally, the idea of 10 becoming one. Trinidad's Prime Minister at the time had a famous quote where he had said, one from ten equals zero. We're pretty sure he was good at math. I think the point he was making, we think. The point he was making was, if you remove one from the collective, the whole thing falls apart. Ten to One as a brand is based on this idea of community, strength in numbers, we're all stronger together than we are. United we stand. United we stand. Yeah. Very well and succinctly put. Yeah. Well, somebody else said that before. Yeah. Is that another rum? I think I've heard of it. Maybe. All right. Cool. And so this brand was founded how long ago now? We've been carrying what suits in the corner like three years, four years, something like that? Yeah. About three years. Almost three years here at Binny's and yeah, super, super proud. So be on shelf with you guys. We launched the brand just under four years ago. So New York was our first market. Summer of 2019, got off to a hot start, felt so great about 2020 and the year that it was going to be. Of course, yeah, we all know how that went. The big old s*** sandwich, yeah. Do we bleep that out? I feel like s*** sandwich is reasonable. They can say s*** on South Park now. I think we ought to be able to. Yeah. So the big old s*** sandwich of 2020, put things on pause a little bit, but we still ended up launching in the Midwest, specifically Illinois, later that year. Binny's was actually our very first account in the Midwest. And so, yeah, I've been super dope to be a part of the family, almost three years now. All right, cool. So this is a blended rum brand. You want to talk about how far you're sourcing these things? I mean, I think that's some consumer, bit of consumer confusion nowadays, because there's, we have rum nerds who want additive free, good, flavorful, maybe even higher proof rums. But they tend to gravitate just towards a couple of distilleries and their distillery labels. And there's this perception of sourced rum brands as being all just this throwaway made up brand. And there's a little more thoughtfulness in putting these together, right? Yeah, 100%. I mean, we'll keep on coming back to that word intentional, right? Everything about this brand is intentional, right? From the quality of the liquid to the name, the packaging, the community, everything else. My perspective when I created the brand was actually that if you look around the region and you look at all these different distillation methods, you think about provenance, you think about terroir, right? Words that you don't often hear kind of tied to rum. And that's maybe a great starting point for us, right? How do you get consumers to appreciate that language as part of the rum lexicon and understand that, you know, if I'm bringing a jamaican pot still rum and having it live alongside a Dominican column still or Trinidad rum, whatever the case might be, you're going to ultimately create a more nuanced, more undulating, we think more unique and exceptional profile. So this idea of beauty in the blend is the principle that Ten to One was founded on. Our aged rum, our aged expression is a blend from four countries. So that's Trinidad, Barbados, jamaica, and the Dominican Republic, three column still rums in there, one pot still, the jamaican is a little bit of unaged, highest of pot still rum. And so when you walk through that profile, we can taste them in a bit whenever you guys are ready, just say the word. But what that does on the nose and the palate, I think is super, super intriguing. OK, well, we should probably start with one of them. You want to start with white or dark? Let's start with the dark. OK. Not to be too obvious about it, and maybe I miss this, but this obviously is why you named your brand this, because you are sourcing from different islands, right? So it's that same concept, you know? Ten to one. Community in the bottle, right? It's a through line in everything we've done, right? Exactly. The stronger together and we are a part, like from the liquid itself to the brand to the community, it all sort of lives with this name Ten to One Rum. I mean, that seems obvious after you tell the story, but I just wanted to make sure that our dullest listeners are next. If you fell asleep out there, wake up, listen to this, this is important, Ten to One Rum. What was your journey like as far as getting a background on all these different rums, your education as far as tasting the difference between column and pot? Was all this rum available to you or were you traveling to each island, visiting distilleries? What was that like? Yeah. I think a combination. So first as a consumer with a passion for the spirit. I'm the guy who never wants to sit at a table. I saddle up at the bar. This is even pre Ten to One, have a conversation with the bartenders. Oh, wait, you like rum? Have you tried this? Have you seen this? Do you know about this one? So and that's how you get into some of the more esoteric, exos or crazy funky pot stills from wherever. You learn the difference between an agricultural, French Caribbean style versus a Spanish or English speaking style. So you can get, I think, a lot of that core technique down just by being super curious about the category. I spent 15 years, as I said, prior to launching Ten to One, just building up that base. Just nerding out on it. Just nerding out on it. Then I think once you get there, you can probably dial up the level of intent once you decide you're going to go create a brand like this. So then, yeah, you will go visit distilleries. You will curate your shelf in a specific way and taste through different things. When I was creating Ten to One, there was a very clear view of things I loved or admired about others that I thought were worth celebrating and things that I absolutely did not want to do. Whether that's being completely additive-free, which Ten to One, of course, is to celebrating the brand, the brand, to having a more nuanced profile, all those things are really important. Yeah, that's worth repeating with the additive-free thing. We're finally at a point where people are actually looking for additive-free tequilas now. I'm really hoping that we can drive some of that kind of momentum into rum next. We actually just did a whole blind tasting of additive-free tequilas on the podcast a couple of weeks ago. It's great. It is worth mentioning, listeners again, that all of these rums are additive-free. We're not talking sugar dosing, coloring, any of that. These are actual rum. Actual rum. As our philosophy, and I'm not judging anyone else's, great rum should stand on its own. I was going to joke, tell your friends, same number of calories per ounce as your favorite, additive-free tequila or mezcal. People have this perception of rum being more caloric or cloying, super sweet. You're going to get none of those things anywhere across the ten to one. Historically, we've preferred our rum to taste similar to donuts in this country. Yeah. If you want donuts, get a donut. All right, let's talk about this. So we've got the Ten to One Dark, and this is available at a local Binny's near you. It is, at every local Binny's near you. This is a beautiful rum. Yeah, I think it clearly speaks of exactly what you're saying because I sense some maybe slightly estuary component to it, but it's subtle. And then there's richness. There's a deep, caramely base note. It's got a lot of different layers going on. But it's still light on its feet and elegant. And I don't want to say it, sometimes elegant means it's a little too subtle, but this is a bold rum, but it's a drinkable rum. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You know, for me, you want to create something super versatile. People can enjoy it, sort of neat rocks on its own. You know, it would be amazing with a little soda water or coconut water. Create an amazing rum old fashioned with it. Yeah, I can see the rum old fashioned being awesome with this. It'd be phenomenal. It plays off some of those notes you were just mentioning. But I think, you know, in so many ways, I always kind of describe this as like different members of a band playing together. So, you know, somebody's on the mic, somebody's on the drums, somebody's playing the guitar. And like as you taste through it, you kind of get different members of the band kind of taking lead in specific moments, right? You get more of that undulating experience that I think is really, really rich and unique here. I like that analogy. Thanks. I like that the Potsdale character is there but isn't so at the forefront. I think when you have some of the people who nerd out on rum, you kind of experience what we see in Scotch where people gravitate towards the like crazy Isla smoke. You have like some people who are really big into that funky mega ester rum, but then I've always tried to get people to try those Potsdales and you just see the look on their face like, oh, this is, what is that? Totally. I think even back to the whole sort of my own journey into rum, you're starting as a consumer who learns to appreciate it and then you nerd out on it and you kind of build the technical knowledge. Here, we're trying to thread a needle, something that has these really unique characteristics but isn't alienating to your everyday consumer. I like that you mentioned the Potsdale piece, Roger, because that is something that if you're playing with one, two, three, four points in a blend, it actually makes a massive difference. You're drinking an entirely different rum. And so you have to be very easy on the pedal or else you just kind of punch people in the face with all this kind of funk and esteriness that they're generally not ready for. But if you use it in the right way, it creates that sort of, again, elegant sort of balance with some of those banana peel notes coming off on the nose and it's super warm and inviting. There's a kiss of it there and it's the overripe banana note but it's not like the funky like, man, what the hell were they throwing in this dunder pit? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. Was this in a sock before? Oh, this is cool. This is $44.99 on the shelf at your local Binny's. Pretty awesome rum for $150. By the way, let me just kind of throw this in. I always tell people because of the heat and the humidity in the Caribbean, rum can really kind of mature two to three times faster than your Scotch whiskeys can. So if you put in this eight year old rum alongside a 15 year old whisky, you're going to find it's way more nuanced and complex. And this is true eight year old? Like the youngest component you're using here is eight? Except for there's a little bit of that unage. The unage. Exactly. There's a little bit of that. But still, I mean, for a rum with a real age behind it for 45 bucks, pretty awesome because otherwise you're paying $45 for some made up nonsense. Somebody puts the word number 20 something on it. No comments. Not to single out a couple of several American brands. No comments. What's the rum culture like in Trinidad? Is it, I know like we were talking about the pot still, I've heard stories that in jamaica, everybody loves Ray and Nephew and that's such a crazy, intense flavor for most Americans to wrap their mind around. So is pot still big in Trinidad like that or is it more of a not so estuary, intense rum? Not so estuary. So the pot still thing is a hallmark of jamaica, jamaica rum culture, whether you're talking about like a Worthy Park or a Monee Musk or Hamlet or Ray or any of these guys, right? Trinidad, column still, right? I mean, that was kind of the Angostura legacy for a long time. Barbados, you'll kind of get a mix of pot and column, a little more column, I think, but you know, Foursquare after has a little bit of both, I believe still. For us, more column, if you think in terms of profile, Trinidadian rums tend to drink a little drier, a little drier, maybe a little leaner. I don't see that in a negative way, but that's more the profile versus like the rich estuary profile you get from jamaica. By the way, even if you look at something like terroir, geographically, Trinidad is part of the Caribbean, but geologically, it's really part of South America, right? It's kind of chipped off the edge of Venezuela. We have oil and gas. That's kind of our core economy. How that affects the soil, the soil composition, if you're in Trinidad versus being in jamaica, ton of oxide. I never really thought of it that way. They're super different. So when you think about the Caribbean, sometimes it's a bit of a monolith, but it's very different. Terroir, jamaica versus Trinidad, distillation method, pot versus column, and you're making a series of decisions. If you were in Martinique, obviously, using cane juice versus the molasses, it's all these decisions. If you're trying to unlock rum and discover it as a consumer, that make it an exceptionally varied and beautiful category. Do you use any rum, agri-coal, cane juice rums in your blends? We don't. All of us because our countries here are all English and Spanish-speaking Caribbean, and so those tend to be molasses-oriented. I'm excited for you guys to try the white at some point because a lot of times people try that and they're like, dude, this is definitely agri-coal. Let's try the white next time. I was going to say even in the daiquiri, there's a hint of grassiness to it. Exactly. But not over the top like the agri-coal. I've always been curious about that with agri-coal rums. Is it pretty much just guanalupe, martiniq that drink those? Do you see them in many other, and yeah, in haiti? At haiti, yeah, exactly. So all with that French heritage. So those would be the most prominent ones. Exactly. Then, if you look at like cachaça as a cousin of rum, it has that also kind of cane-y sort of characteristic to it. I think families kind of with an agri-coal style too. Yeah. I mean, you say the classic daiquiri is a great way to enjoy this, but is there a Trinidadian standard for enjoying rum? Yeah. I mean, if you guys came to an event that we do, we typically offer, we call them the origin serves, and they're very straightforward, nothing groundbreaking here, but soda water, coconut water, tonic water. Those are our core mixers, clean and easy. Really? Tonic water, huh? Yeah. My dad is a big, well, was dad, a big gin and tonic drinker, but now he's a ten to one white and tonic drinker. I think those botanicals. Yeah. Dad had to switch. He had to switch. Yeah. Convert. Got to start with the family, man. If they don't believe, then you're in trouble. But yeah, I think those are really kind of your core serves. Your core serves when you're in trouble. Chris, you want to pass the right around? Yeah. Holy cow. I can see the confusion here. This is an aromatic white rum. Absolutely. The experience on the nose here alone is its own thing. Is there any aged rum that's been charcoal filtered? No. The first two questions always, agricultural? No, it's not. Is it like age filter? No. This is unaged jamaican pot still, alongside unaged Dominican column still. Here, you talk about it being sort of, it has this bouquet, right? This rum is of 90 proof. It's not the usual 120, 115 you might see. It's also not the usual 80 worth mentioning. Yeah, exactly. It's not the usual 80. You'll see as you try this, at 90 it has great viscosity, great body. It really does. It does. It has a little bit of mouthfeel to it. If you were creating a classic daiquiri, as we have in the studio right now, you'll see it add some real texture and dimension to any cocktail. Drinks super clean, you get those lemongrassy kind of floral notes on the nose. I think at 90 it allows those notes to kind of open up and kind of give each one a chance to shine. Yeah, there's a plus brown sugar molasses character just kind of hangs around too. Like this is, it drinks darker than it is. Yeah, because there is a little natural sweetness that tastes rich, but then then you get like all of the, it is a little grassier herbal on top of it. And it's very complex and it is quite round and viscous on the palate. We sell this rum for only $29.99. This is pretty freaking delicious. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Whoever, whoever, whoever decided that that was the price, I guess that was me. Fire that guy. Fire that guy. He's not good at business. He's not very good at business. I can see where you give these suits an inch, they're going to take a mile. Yeah, yeah. I can see where you're coming from though, because we always talk about this. We've been passionate about rum for decades and it's always such a challenge to get people to change their mind on it. I think clear block rum is the hardest because it's so ingrained in people's minds that that's only a mixer. Like you're only going to make cocktails with it or even the good ones. They're like, oh, you'll make an upscale cocktail with it. But this is complex enough that you could just drink this as is because there's so much going on there. There's even components of what you would add to a cocktail. Like the all spice character on the end of it reminds me of one of my all time favorite cocktail ingredients. You have like a ham horn when I say this, but I always talk about all spice dram. I love that stuff. But it's sweet. So, I mean, you can only use so much. But I love the besides the obvious fruit character to this, I like the spice component that I get from it, too. Yeah, I appreciate that. And I think that because of exactly as you just described, when you think about, again, versatile for me is not a throwaway word, I just say as a marketing lingo. It means that you can take this in a multitude of directions. And so when you're exploring, what cocktail can I create tonight? What should I create next? You're picking up on those individual notes. Maybe it's like the bright lemongrass notes, it's a little bit of that white pepper finish. So, what you compare it with. I know Chris who's sitting here loves playing with amarros, actually with both of the rums, right? There's a whole range of things you can do. Now you're speaking our language. I think this one really speaks to, Chris had asked you the kind of drinking tradition for rum in Trinidad. And I think the highball is perfect for a rum, for a white rum this flavorful, just with some soda water in a tall glass, maybe a garnish, and it just really comes alive. And that's something that we don't drink white rum that way in America, ever. And that's something we need to start changing. But we drink Blanco Tequila that way now. And tequila and soda has become such a thing. And any different of the highball family of cocktails with Blanco Tequilas, there's no reason not to try that with a good white rum. Well, next step, Ten to One RTD. Coming soon. Let's talk about it. Let's talk about it. That highball energy, you know, it would be great. I'm glad you mentioned the white pepper, because I was just about to say that right before you did. And there's, I mean, there's like cilantro or something, you know, just really interesting layered. Totally, totally. But they're both very layered, very textured experiences. Yeah. And a Binny's near you for under 30 bucks. Under 30 bucks. Run right now, guys. I'm going to take the price up in a week. Well, where do you want to move to next? So these are the two core products, and that's what we see every day, year round, the dark and the white, but we've had several different limited releases over, even in just the short three years, we've been selling this brand. Yeah, no, for sure. So one of the things that we love doing is, we have kind of our two core, everyday, always on SKUs that we just tasted, the aged and the white, but I love bringing new innovation to market. How do you delight customers in a different way? How do you get them to appreciate that rum can be super, again, super inspired and versatile? Keep on bringing new news. And so whether we've done a couple of reserves, we did a 17-year-old single cask reserve, we did a 26-year-old, actually also- The 17-year-old was incredible. Was amazing. Yeah. Was amazing. And actually we have a 26. There are a couple of bottles on the shelves at Binny's right now that is absolutely absurd. We've also done some cask finishes as well, you know, an Olu Rosso Sherry cask. We did an Uncle Nearest collaboration that we'll try after this one. But before we do that one, I want you guys to try our limited edition release. This is our artist edition that we released in February of this year. Now, this is actually an identical blend to the first one that we tried, the Aged, but it's at a higher proof. It's at 86. Everyone says that this drink is like a completely different rum. So I'm excited for you guys to try it. You can compare and contrast it. Identical blend to the dark, but higher proof. But higher proof, exactly. I think the proof definitely adds to the body of it. It's whiskey-like on the palate. Yeah. Whiskey-like on the palate, for sure. So again, to me, you're playing with whether it's part and color, whether it's age, finish, barrel type, proof. These are all arrows in your quiver to create something that ends up being pretty unique and exceptional. I think if I'm remembering correctly, that this really amps up this spice component at this proof. Yeah. This kind of reminds me of like an an armagnac, but without the fat rich body to it, but like the aromatics and the fruit character and a little bit of the oak. Like this is really interesting. I kind of get that because I feel like there's a certain mineral note in here that is akin to the way armagnac tastes, a little bit earthy. Yeah. I was going to say kind of like an earthier spice though. Yeah. Interesting. I can see what you're saying, Roger, totally. It's crazy that it's the same blend. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely crazy. Because it doesn't like if I was just tasting rums blind, I would never guess that this was the same rum we had two rums ago. Yeah. Well, that just tells you how much how important it is to dial in your proof. Right. Because things change so much at different levels. Yep. It really does. It really does. Without the school. This is available in some Binny's, probably not all because we have sold out on unlimited release on sale right now for $59.99. So check it out. Regular 65. Cool. And great artwork too. Now, do you have a particular artist that you paired up for this release particularly? Yeah, we did. So one of the things we love doing at Ten to One is this idea of creating platform for others. It's been a core attribute of the brand from day one. So whether it's our collaborators, like an uncle Larry. So in this case, this is a piece of artwork by a young Brooklyn-based artist called Devon B. Johnson. Super talented young guy. You'll start to see him everywhere now. He's about to blow up. He commissioned this original work for Ten to One. It's called Inner Glow. It's actually sort of a composite painting of a number of members of the black and African diaspora. They're sort of looking forward into the future with this sort of like poignant, optimistic gaze. We launched it as an artist edition to kick off Black History Month, but sort of running it throughout the course of the year. But again, this idea of really sort of bringing some more intention and some more of that sort of thoughtful, curated, those moments to everything we do with Ten to One, I think this is a great example of that. That's cool. That comes through in the art too. I appreciate that. The intention and the focus. I appreciate that. That's cool. Definitely. Maybe I missed this, but did you emigrate to Brooklyn, to New York? No, no, no. I moved to Boston first. Boston? Yeah. Is there a Trinidadian community in Boston? I imagine Brooklyn has a big one. Yeah. If you're looking for the Trinidadian or the Caribbean diaspora in the US, I mean, New York is by far the biggest. You got to be in DC, you got to be in Miami. I mean, you find a Trinidadian everywhere, but really kind of- New York, I always think of as big. Yeah. New York would probably be one. Toronto actually would be number two in North America, then kind of Miami and DC. Those are your biggest pockets. So, it was a little tougher to find the Caribbean food when I was at college in Boston, but we had to make do. We had to make do. Is that what brought you there? Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. Many moons ago, I went to MIT for undergrad. So, I studied chemical engineering there. So, you're not very smart. Not very smart. No. I mean, I was picking up on that already. Yeah. You got to get that vibe, right? This poor guy. It's like- He was 16. The guy. Yeah. Okay. At age 16? Oh, wow. Yeah. I thought you were an underachiever. Yeah. My parents are like, that's our son, the rum salesman. I was just going to say, your parents are probably so happy when you said you were going to launch a rum brand. Set up an MIT and this is what we get. Yeah. They're not even disappointed. I think just confused. We sent this kid to MIT at 16. He set a rum. Now that's what he's doing? All right. Yeah. Yeah. Follow your heart, baby. Follow your heart. On all jokes aside, I won't even leave this out there. I am lucky to have quite literally the most phenomenal family and parents in the world. So they've been super encouraging of the journey from day one. Life takes you on a journey. If you said to me 15 years ago, would I be the founder of a rum brand? That wasn't probably on the table. But we've gotten here and I think doing it with all the energy and passion we can. That's great because you can't underestimate the influence of family and the support. Yeah. And just letting you do follow your dreams. Absolutely. Absolutely. So that's really cool. Do people generally drink rum with food in Trinidad? And throw a couple of typical dishes at us. It's more like do people eat food with rum? I mean, you got to eat sometime. Might be the more appropriate question. With food, without food, however you want to do it. But yeah, yeah, absolutely. Like, you know, again, for me, if I think about rum culturally in Trinidad and the Caribbean, I think about like moments of connection, moments of celebration. And the way I describe that is it can be big or small, it could be high or low. And so how does that play into your question? Like, you know, you're driving by a buddy's house who you haven't seen in a couple of years. You see him out in the front yard, you know, you wave to him, you start the chat before you know it. They want you to come inside, then you're on the, you guys have to say veranda, we say like balcony, whatever. You're on their balcony, they bring out the rum, you're having drinks, you know, mom comes out, you cannot have somebody in your house without having some food. So, you know, then the food is out before you know it, then somebody else walks by and they see you guys chatting. And like the serendipity and the spontaneousness of that celebration is not like a planned party from 9 p.m. to 2 a.m. on Thursday or Friday. It's just it's Monday at 5 and it just kind of happened, you know. Ad hoc party. Ad hoc party. No better kind. And so even in the way that like the food comes to life around that, right? Like there isn't necessarily a specific dish, right? It's almost like, again, I think like a little bit of this kind of like wabi-sabi kind of curated view of how and when the thing, we call it a lime. A lime is when people are kind of hanging out. A lime has no rules. Liming has no rules other than you can't do it alone. So, you know, so whether it's something like doubles, which is a really popular Indo-Trinidadian kind of street food, but all Trinnies love doubles. You meet the Trinnies. What is it? Doubles is basically like, it's two pieces of fried barra, fried bread with sort of like chickpea flour. It's vegetarian. With curry, chickpeas has a bunch of like, like spices in it. So it's super delicious. So I think when I kind of curry chickpeas on these kind of two fried pieces of bread, that sounds fantastic. With like sweet sauce, tamarind sauce and pepper sauce. And like, you know, you just kind of at the side of the road, eat in two or three or four of those. Like it's something you can have for breakfast, lunch, dinner, or after a party. Roger's a big tamarind guy. So, well, you know, I'm thinking that that sounds a lot like like Indian chana masala, you know, and I love that. So, you love this? I don't see how I could. One thing that's interesting about Trinidad, just even like culturally, right, is that people maybe don't always know that Trinidad is equal parts, folks of African and Indian descent, right? So, it's like 43% Indian, 42% black, 10% mixed. And then you have sort of like, you know, Syrian, Lebanese, Chinese, you know, French, Caucasian, etc. So, even there, you asked about the question about the name, right? This idea of the beauty in the blend. It's kind of been a part of my upbringing from the very earliest days, right? You think about this kind of cultural mosaic and how that then translates to your belief system, what you want to create, what you want to share with the world. And love it. That's really cool. I was going to ask what the favorite Trinidadian dishes were. Yeah. I don't want to speak for, I'm not going to get a bunch of hate mailed from other Trinities. You're on this podcast telling them what our favorite food is. I don't know, man, I'll tell you what my favorites are, but doubles as kind of university of favorite. Something called macaroni pie. So macaroni pie is, you'd look at it and be like, is that just mac and cheese? But it's not. It's so much better. It's baked, it has a layer of cheese on top. So is mac and cheese for the record. This is not going well. It's not going well. It's not mac and cheese. I'm going to stick by that fact. It's not. Macaroni pie is a favorite. We have everything from like stew chicken, pia lao, which is like a- how did I say? Rice dish. Rice dish. Yeah. Can I call my mom? Can I phone a friend? Mom, could you describe pia lao to these people? Because I need to understand. You guys are getting a window into my culinary abilities there. Yeah, like a rice dish that's delicious. So we have a lot of range. I think it's where Trinidad Chinese food is crazy. It's so good. It's so good. It's so good. Now, that's interesting. That is interesting. Yeah. Finally, something interesting right after 25 minutes. Yeah. I was asleep at the wheel for a while. Finally, a real nugget of information. So on the Rum, you're sourcing from how many different countries now? Four. Four. Is it only four distilleries or you getting around each of those? No, it's really actually like five or six. So and actually we're super transparent about them. So I mean, in our age rum, it would be Worthy Park from jamaica, Falsquare from Barbados, Angus Stewart from Trinidad, AFD from the Dominican Republic. The White, it's also Worthy Park and AFD. There's a little bit of Monee Musk and Hamden that's in there too. No kidding. Do you have a favorite component where when you're putting these kinds of things together, if there's one where you're just like, I really just, I would drink just this. I mean, you're obviously making these masterpieces out of components. We're advocates of blending because almost universally, you're going to have a more interesting end product with a blend. But is there one component where that you always find yourself personally just going back to? Yeah, Van Gogh. What's your favorite brush stroke? Yeah, exactly. What's your favorite color? It's blue. That's a hard question to answer. Here's our answer that I would say that if I looked at our age room, in my mind, the Barbie, this is almost the backbone of it in a lot of ways. For some of the reasons we were discussing earlier. But the chef's kiss is really the jamaican element. Yeah. Right. It's how and where you've used that, that I think really makes this thing shine in a very compelling way. By the way, funny story, when we were creating the blend, if somebody out there has a bottle in front of them, there's a little number on the side. It says 12 FW TTO 04. 12 because it was actually the 12th blend that we created. The first one was not amazing. The 12th blend that we created, FW Farrell Waxell, who's my co-founder, TTO 04, there's forums in the blend. Why am I pointing that out? Because when we had blend 10 and blend 11, I had a bunch of people come and try it, some industry folks, some friends, etc. And everyone kept on gravitating towards, they were like, yeah, let's just say number 10 is our favorite. But you know, there's something about 11 that I just can't shake. I prefer 10, but there's something about 11. And as I heard this thing like 10 or 15 different times, as people were leaving, walking out the door, I was like, what are they all talking about? And I realized it was the Potsdell. And so I kind of took a piece out of 11 and dropped it in 10, and that became the final iteration. And that's kind of the magic of the final end product that we have here. I totally get that. And that would have been like, if I imagined your answer, that would be exactly it. Because it's kind of what it's like the spice, it lifts and elevates and adds just like this ethereal component that raises up the more base notes of the other rums. Yeah. I think ethereal is a great way of putting it. Yeah. Very cool. Now, what was on the older blends? Like the 17s gone. We do have, you mentioned some 26. I know there were some at Oakbrook and maybe a couple of other Binny's. Where are those being sourced from? Yeah. So 26 is actually one of the oldest blends in the world. It's a 26 year old. So it has an age statement on it. It's a 26 year old Guyanese rum alongside a 30 year old Guyanese rum, Port Marat casks, DDL, and also a 30 year old jamaican pot still as well. So it's actually kind of a combination of three that are in there. So I said four countries before, but really there's a fifth now that's been added to the mix because there is Guyana in that. But it's a super limited bottling. I mean, we did 200 bottles of that in the world with that blend. Wow. 200 in the world. Holy cow. And that Port Marat is a double wooden pot, right? Yeah. Very cool. All right, well, what should we try next? Let's try this bad boy. So this one. Okay, so this was last year release, right? This was last year's release. So there's barely any of this left, but you can check out the Binny's website, you can track it down. There's only like four stores. Yeah, exactly. And I think this one in a lot of ways is kind of like a collector's item for a lot of folks. So this one we did in partnership with Uncle Nerris last year. So we finished Ten to One in the Uncle Nerris 1856 barrels. We had about 20, 25 barrels of memory. We made 10,000 bottles. And you guys I think maybe have 20 or 30 kind of floating around there in the system. This one I want you to try kind of last because whereas the last version I think to a lot of people kind of drinks like a bourbon, this one leans a little bit more whiskey as you go and you kind of taste through it. But I think just another really exceptional example of how you bring some artistry and creativity to this space. I think we want to find ways to build bridges to consumers in other categories. If you're a whiskey lover, a bourbon rye, etc., you're going to find a lot of joy in a lot of the expressions and offering the Ten to One. Yeah, I agree with that entirely. I think we've been waiting for whiskey people to turn into rum people at some point, and it's not that simple. I think the trap you fall into is expecting people to just be like, okay, I'll just start drinking rum. It's like, no, that's not how it works. How do you get people to start appreciating rum the way they appreciate what they already love? And then that's how you're going to start selling more rum. Yeah, absolutely. This whole idea of just sitting on our hands and waiting for the thing to change. This is going to be it. This is rum's year. It's going to hit, and rum is continually growing, but it's growing like that. So we need to figure out what that catalyst looks like. To your point, how do I create a window or a wedge into the category for whiskey drinkers, maybe with the dark and maybe agave or gin drinkers with the white, even down to the cocktails we create, really reference that. So sometimes we'll do this menu, we'll call it like the Five Horsemen. We'll do an Old Fashioned, a Manhattan, a Negroni, a White Rum Martini and a Rum-a-Rita, right? So I'm taking equity from all the other categories. cocktails, you know. Forcing your way in through cocktails, everyone knows. Elevated classics with a twist, you know? And holy shit, like this is a, wait, a rum old fashioned? By the way, it's way better than a classic old fashioned. Yeah, I'm biased, but like, trust me, I'm right on this one. Trust me, I'm right on this one. And that to me is a great way of saying like, you know, if somebody's, you're like, wait, I have to try this cocktail I'm not familiar with and a spirit I'm not familiar with, that to me is much harder than, okay, cool. Like I know I like old fashioned. Yeah. There's a little bit of a pivot here. Yep, great point. And I think the consumer comes in, walks into a Binny's store. We talk a lot about this idea of sort of inviting people to explore the unexpected. Ten to One is this whole adventure in, oh, I never thought that, I never knew that, I never expected that, kind of fill in the blanks. That person who wants a little bit of that unexpected sort of adventure, walking down the aisles of a Binny's, sitting at their local bar here in Chicago, that is the consumer who tends to fall in love with Ten to One, and that's who we're trying to Nice. I think some of it too is that, as we've been discussing today, there's variants between rums. So when you try to ask somebody to get excited about rum, if they just sort of start tasting their way down the aisle, they could have something that's too much pot still for them. They could have something that's too sweet. Some of those South American rums that people love because they're softer. To another person, they're way too sweet, they're flabby. So I think that that's always one of the challenges. What I think is really sets your rums apart is that effort to try to carve your own space in between something that's over the top or that's like a geeky rum or like a mixer rum or an everyday soft rum. Yeah, for these to be added to free and natural and classic rums, it's not like, it doesn't have the challenge of some crazy jamaican stuff or Martinique Agricoles, something like that. It's a good middle ground. Yeah. And I think this one in particular, if we get down to tasting it, is a great bridge that you're building here because there's a lot of that sweet American oak lactones are coming through on this and you can really taste the kind of whiskey influence Yeah. The vanilla coconut finish is from the American oak, not so much from any rum components. Right. And I think there's a little bit elevated sweetness to it too, from maybe from those barrels. I think it's really good. What proof is this one bottled at? This one's also 86. 86? Yeah. So we tend to do the limited at 86 usually. Yeah. Designed to be great sippers and all of that as well. So yeah, I think everything you guys are seeing here is it resonates entirely. For me, the dream is create something that is sufficiently nuanced, unique, exceptional, that if you walked into a Michelin star spot, whether you were at the Avery in Chicago, at Lev Madison Park in New York or whatever the case is, like Ten to One is the realm of record that's there, right? So sort of real folks who lean into craft think that there's something that's amazing here. But also it's a bottle that you pick up, you're proud to take it to your friend's dinner party, you can sip it neat on the rocks, you don't have to be a big cocktail genius to create something with this, right? Like you want to achieve that range, that to me is the only way you can ultimately win here. That's kind of been our POV. Wow, this is good. Yeah. I mean, you're absolutely right. These shine on their own and in simple cocktails. I mean, you don't want to adorn it too much, you know? Yeah. Three ingredient cocktail. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. Yeah. So if you can find this uncle in New York instead of Binny's near you, you're looking at 64.99 on this. Not every rum is going to be a whiskey drinker's rum, but you absolutely, if you're in the thick of the bourbon craze right now and you love trying bourbons, this is a rum you need to try. Track them. 65 bucks, what do you guess? Yeah. Indeed. Give us a shot. We like to nerd out with tropical drinks, big believers in Jeff Berry's mixology books. If you study the old Tiki movement, a lot of these bars would mix rums. They have essentially proprietary blends, or if there's a classic cocktail, like we always talk about mai tai's, it would need some sort of agricultural as well as an aged rum. I think for people that do like making quality tropical drinks and they look at some of those recipes where they go, I got to use four different rums in this cocktail. I could see your rums being a really nice shortcut. We were talking about this with that denizen we had a while back. I like the idea of, no, just try the cocktail with this one rum instead of essentially doing what you're doing for the consumer. I'm going to blend an aged and an agricultural in a pot. You could have some real fun subbing in your rum. It's so funny. I'm smiling at you saying that because when our sales guy is going to be on-premise, that's the reaction they get so often. Well, I'm over here making my own house blend, but this is that. I have a little bit of the pot with the column, and really it's families with agricultural even for folks who love that. So, yeah, one bottle just gets the job done for you. You'll see a lot of amazing cocktails come into life with the white and the dark, but especially with the white as you mentioned there. Angostura is the only distillery left in Trinidad, is that right? No, yeah. Yeah, no, no. Yeah, yeah. I'm sure some of the bigger rum heads who are listening in here will know about Carony. Yeah. People here call it Carony, but it's- Carony here. It's Carony. It's Carony. I've always called it Carony. But you only ever see it, we only ever see it now just on weird Italian and Scotch independent bottlers. Yeah. The reason is because I think it's a good lesson, it's a longer story, but it's a good lesson in, I think, appreciating your own craft before others do. There was a bunch of lost casks that were in there years ago, just sitting around in a warehouse that was bought and pulled out to the country. And so now you see them in these small lot, limited releases. Yeah. We got them from Samaroli and occasionally like a Cad and Heads or something. Yeah. Is the distilling game something you would ever want to get into? Could you ever see yourself operating a distillery? Let me see, how many more problems do I want to take on in my life? You got the chemical engineer back. I do. I do. I do. Ninety-nine problems, but a distillery. I feel like that's going to be our next drop. I see that remix coming. Where's Jay-Z when you need him? Who knows? Who knows is the answer. I haven't thought about it seriously. I think, again, to me, there's so much to be celebrated here with the idea of creating blends and doing really interesting things with the cost finishes and all of that stuff. You can create a lot of this magic right now. Building backwards into it one day, I think we'll see. Given your background, I could see you being pretty interested in the makeup of stills and everything. I mean, there's really a science there that very few people, I think, can appreciate the different... I've always been fascinated by Guiana at El Dorado, all the different marks and those pots, the wooden pots and everything. Yeah, the wooden pots, the coffee stills. I mean, there's a whole part of Rum that we really doesn't get talked about that much. I mean, you really have to do a deep dive to figure out the distillation process. When we can solve that riddle, when we can answer that question, we will have won the game. But how do you take this perception of Rum as being kind of like the wild, you know, you had this wild west thing, no rules thing. And yeah, I mean, some of that's true, right? I mean, this kind of bullsh** about adding whatever you want and putting whatever numbers you want and it is a little wild westy. But what that's doing is actually masking the breadth of the category. Like I said, think about all these decisions, all these options you have. Molasses, agricultural, pot, column, pot and column, age, not, all of those, I think. And again, then you sort of layer into that like the terroir question, like I kind of explained earlier whether jamaica versus Trinidad. There's so much variety in the category. And so somebody who wants to like lean into craft, who wants to explore, wants to find new things, rum is where you should be. Like it's literally where you should be. So forget the wild west nonsense. And let's talk a little bit more about the range and the breadth and the diversity. That to me is where you're going to find some real magic in the category. Yeah. The terroir is worth mentioning because for as much as we love bourbon and stuff, the entire bourbon industry is just running essentially the same genetic clone of number two yellow dent corn. Like there's no... Yeah, corn in northern Illinois is somewhat different than corn in Iowa versus Indiana. But then you're running through a column still and stripping on any of that character out. Like it's different with rum. It really is. I like it when they go into the tails and you get the essence of a roundup. We also enjoy talking about dunder. Have you seen a dunder pit in person? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Regale us. What's it like? The one time I did the backstroke in a dunder pit. I mean, you know, I think generally speaking, it's not a super pleasant experience for us, right? You know, you want to sort of keep as wide a breath as you can. I mean, if one wanted to take a tour of dunder pits, again, jamaica will be your place, go out to the countryside, you know, you hit up like a money mask or something and you're going to get the tour. Actually, Worthy Park, I think has one or two, maybe that they brought back. But anyway, yeah, that'd be the home of the dunder pit tour. I mean, that's kind of the romance though, of like, I feel like that's a secret sauce element to this mystical, this just like you were telling the story, like there was something about that Potstill character in a little bit of it. That changed those blends for everybody who tasted them. Everybody tasted them. Yeah, exactly. I mean, we poured rum fire for people and had fun watching everybody freak out and be like, what are you having me drink? There's not for everybody, but I think the way you're utilizing it is like a spice. again, it reminds me totally of the Islay situation with Scotland, like these whiskeys that were always viewed as spice components to blend. Exactly. All of a sudden, everybody geeked out on, well, let's just drink them straight. Right. Let's get back to how important they can be as an ingredient versus- As one, two percent in a blend. Yeah. Those esters just make things pop. They do. They do. Make all the difference. What's next for Ten to One? What are we going to see going forward here? Yeah, I mean, you know, spill all your secrets. Yeah, all the secrets, you know? So what's next for us? I mean, honestly, I think just trying to do, keep on raising the bar on sort of the playbook that we've kind of built to date, you know? I think there's more for us in this kind of casque finish collaboration game. You know, we're actually R&D-ing a few different ones now. Your Sauternes and your Burros. You guys mentioned Armagnac earlier, which we think is actually quite interesting. So, you know, leading into the casque finishes, you know, maybe doing another cool collab, a dope whiskey or bourbon or something that might be out there that we think could be interesting. We could send you a dope whiskey casque. Please do. If you have a dope one, send them to me. I have nothing but dope casques. Have you not seen our stores? It's Handsome Pat's House of Dope Casques. Come on now. I forgot I walked by the side. You totally missed that sign on the way in. Listen, listen. We are going to make a bottle called Handsome Pat's Dope Casques. It's definitely happening. I'm going to write that down. We are going to launch it in 2024. It's going to be hands selected by Handsome Pat. Handsome Pat. I think we are going to keep on leading in to bring in some more magic to life, man. I think the same experience we've all had in the studio, kind of tasting through these and piqued your interests, your curiosity, and hopefully your appreciation of spirits. Obviously, you guys are veterans in this game, but we have so many other folks out there to bring this excitement to. All the Binny's customers, first and foremost, folks who are obviously going to be walking there, walking the aisles of your stores. And then really kind of beyond that, when we launched in Illinois, we were in three states, now we're in 20. We still have a few more to go. I'm actually looking at doing some stuff in the Caribbean now. It's been really, really dope to actually bring Ten to One back home. That's cool. So Ten to One is now available in Trinidad, it's available in St. Barts and Angola and some of those other spots. I think they're actually great launching pads for folks up here who go down there on vacation, discover something new. Yeah, they get that vacation effect. They're drunk in the Caribbean, so then no matter what they drink, it's the greatest thing I've ever had. Yeah, you come back with the whole romantic story about, yeah. You need to be the house poor and a bunch of all-inclusives or some s***, and then everybody comes and is going to come back and say it's the best room they've ever had. Exactly, all day, every day. I need Ten to One in Caribe. Yeah. People could do a lot better than ask us for Caribe. You only liked it because you were in the Caribe when you were in Caribe. Yeah, exactly. It's amazing what the Caribbean does for people's love of beer, man. It's crazy. A little romance, any sort of trip that you have. For sure, for sure, for sure. So yeah, I think Canadians can do that. I think the other piece of this, we talked about this, we touched on this, but for me, the mission of Ten to One is elevating the perception of the category through the liquid. And we've tasted that, we've tried that, we've talked about that. But also, I think telling a different story around culture. I'm somebody who's from the Caribbean, right? And oddly enough, there aren't a lot of Caribbean founders of Caribbean rum companies out there in the market today. And so, how do you bring the story of culture to life in a real and authentic and a contemporary fashion? For me, success is not just how many cases you're going to sell here, but also I think shining a light in that cultural component is a piece that we feel super strongly about. Yeah, it's not just some other colonial descendant of some British lord or some s***. Yeah. However you got there is however you got there, but I just know that even going back home to Trinidad recently and having people on the street just like stop you and talk about how proud they are of this. It's somebody who's again just shining a light on a little piece of our culture, I think has been one of the most rewarding. Then you started liming. I started liming, one of the Ten to One. I'm like, bro, are you just using me for my rum again? Are you congratulating me again because you want some rum? Is that what this is? Listen, your popularity does shoot through the roof when you're the guy who brings rum to every party. You are a walking lime. I'm a walking lime. When you bring your rum home, what's the rum business like in Trinidad? What's everyone drinking? What's everyone drinking? You can be brutally honest. No, I'm just laughing, man, because I don't want to get quoted on some bullsh-t there. I'm sure nobody's listening to me. It's just the six of us in this room. Angostura is the dominant house down there. So far and away, that's going to be what most people are drinking. It's up and down the spectrum. We have White Oak. I don't know if you guys have that up here, but all the way to 1824 and some of their higher end expressions. You have a little import market, the ones you'd see down there, mostly El Dorado, which we would be drank a lot of. I'm a big fan of Demerara and El Dorado for sure. A little bit of Zacapa. So you'll see the usual extended range. But one thing that's always so funny about Caribbean people is we all take pride in our, of the soil, right? So in the same way that jamaicans would love their Ray and their Appleton, and Dominicans love their Bregal, and Bajans love their Maungay or Foursquare. Everybody has their, solution loves their chairmans. A little bit of that piece of home. That's what I was getting at more was just I wondered how strict people were. You hear stories about, I hate to make this assumption that everyone in the Caribbean just drinks rum from every island in the Caribbean. It was interesting to hear like you said, with agriculture, it's like, well, you drink those if you're on those islands, but not necessarily somewhere else. Yeah. So to that point, you would find almost no agricultural in Trinidad. You have a couple of buddies who are rum collectors, who maybe bought the bottle when they were on a trip somewhere, you went to Martinique and came back, but you're not walking into liquor stores in Trinidad and finding an agricultural. You're not going to find a clarin on a shelf there or something like that. One thing that's interesting about those, I know we've always talked about that the unaged agricoles are always a challenge, but the aged ones, sometimes people, I tend to prefer those. I think part of the magic with those is the French oak. Is that something you'd ever experiment with, like doing some French oak aging? Yeah, it is actually. I think the agricultural piece has not been a deliberate point of exclusion, just to be clear. I think agricultural rooms are amazing. We might do something fun with that in the future. again, to your point about using the typical ex-bourbons, second-fill American oak situation versus playing with a French oak, or something else in that space. Yeah, absolutely. We love R&D and stuff, to be honest. So, we can add that to the pipeline. And whenever we're thinking about sort of what's next off the handsome part over here, we're going to get in line. Old Patty Hanson is going to send him some dope cast first. When you headed back to Trinidad? I was there a month ago for Carnival. The single dopest party you will ever go to in your life, guaranteed. I'm back down there in June, actually. So, we're going to launch some, do another little ten to one activation down there for a week, and then I'll be there. So, I'm at home like four times a year, typically. Most of my family is still there. You a cricket fan? Cricket's huge there, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Massive cricket fan. Massive cricket fan. Trinidad's most famous cricketer is a guy called Brian Lara. I know Brian Lara. I know who that is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, crazy story. It's not about Rum, but my mom actually represented Brian. Really? As like a 1920 year old. This is like one of like, this is like, this is legend, absolute legend. Like the LeBron of cricket. Yeah, like one of like the three greatest to like ever play the game, Brian Lara. Yeah. So, imagine being like a seven year old, I was like seven at the time. Imagine being like a seven year old kid and you come home from school. And Michael Jordan is in your house. Yeah, sitting on your house, sitting on the couch, you know? That's wild, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was crazy, man. And he was like a great big brother figure for me back in those days. Are you jazzed up about this pro cricket league that's starting in America now? You know, I'm kind of holding my breath to see what the American thing does, you know? But listen, the more we can kind of bring some of that magic beyond the, you know. It's an awesome sport. I'd love to see it grow more. It's a great sport. And with the 2020 stuff, the shorter format, it almost kind of maps the baseball a little bit in terms of length of time, at least a lot of excitement. There's been some great innovation in the game in the last decade, I would say. But you still got to get it beyond the Commonwealth countries, West Indies, Australia, New Zealand, blah, blah, blah. See if you can stick in the US. Yeah. Very cool. Yeah. Are you done with your cricket question? I saw, I think it was on, you know that show, How It's Made? They did a thing on cricket balls and it blew my mind. It's like the most involved. I've got a cricket ball in my house. Hand-stitched. Hand-stitched leather. Fortune. It was fascinating. Yeah. They're no joke. Well, Marc, thanks a lot, man. Very much a pleasure, gents. I don't know what else to say. I mean, these rums are phenomenal. Rums are phenomenal. They are favorably priced. They're available at your local Binny's, and it's not just throw it in some fruit, icy machine or some shit. This is take your classics and put one of these rums in, and I think you're really going to be surprised at the results. These are the kind that rum deserves to be respect. Yeah. It's the Rodney Dangerfield of spirit category. One day, we'll get the respect it deserves. Put some respect on rum's name. Exactly. No, I appreciate the time, guys, and I appreciate any opportunity to spend some time with you guys, sip some great rum, share the ten to one story. We're out there beating the drum as often and as loudly as we can, and so any help to spread that word. Anybody who's listening in, go grab a bottle of Binny's. Take one to your friend's house. I promise you won't be disappointed. If you are, take it up with these guys, not with me. Take it alignment. Yeah, thanks for the time, guys. All right, listeners, hope you enjoyed that. We'll see you next week with something interesting. Until then, I'm Pat. I'm Roger. I'm Chris. And I'm Marc. Keep tasting.