All right, can I tell you guys about this cocktail that I made literally last night? You're gonna get the kick out of this. One of the bottles that I've had in my basement for the longest of all is that Maraschino L'Cour, that one with the basket, and I just haven't really known what to do with it. And then another one of the bottles that I've had is not your green guy, we're talking about chartreuse alternatives. It's a different one, but I've had it forever, and I just don't, like, not really reaching for that one, you know, very often. And I'm like, well, these guys are coming in tomorrow. I'm gonna use this maraschino liqueur in a cocktail. So I got a tall glass, and I poured ice on about this much of that maraschino, and then about this much of that green, and it was like really green. It was really green. It smelled like a floral medicinal little jelly bean. And I opened up the fridge, I'm like, I need some sparkling water or something like that to cut this down a little bit. And my kid had left a pitcher of blue Kool-Aid. So, I topped it off with blue Kool-Aid and it didn't turn blue, it made it even more green. And it's like dark, it's night, and I have the stove light on, and that's the only thing illuminating the room, and I hold the drink under it, and it's glowing like some kind of Ghostbusters ectoplasm. Some kind of weird science movie prop. That was the Kool-Aid. And my wife goes, don't drink that. So, I still have some of that. Can you help me come up with a better recipe, please? Dude, I mean, that sounds pretty great, to be honest. I'm not going to lie, I finished it off. I'm more than you were for it. The surprise on your face is like, where is this going? Yeah, especially with the blue Kool-Aid. Yeah. You can have some, it's a good opportunity for fun names for it as well with the Kool-Aid in it. Don't drink the Kool-Aid, you know. I'm calling it a mellow green. Call it the ectoplasm. So, you're going to have us, like you're going to show us how to make good cocktails though, right? Yeah. I mean, well, we don't really have the tools, but I can advise you on how to make good cocktails. Fair enough. You're listening to Cherry to Bottle. Just kidding, Rob got that in my head. We'll talk about that later. You're listening to Barrel to Bottle, The Binny's Podcast. Back in your feed with more Italian liqueur, and I'm stoked on this one. I'm Greg, I do communications at Binny's. I'm Rob, I work on the Whiskey Hotline team. I am Matteo Luxardo, I'm the expert director of the company. My name is G, and I am the global brand ambassador for Luxardo. You guys have great accents, and they're mismatched. They're like salt and pepper. It is great. It's kind of perfect. So one of the things that I wanted to talk about, that I was just curious about is obviously it's such a rich history, and there's kind of that pre-World War II and post-World War II portion of it. Briefly, can you just speak to that and the heritage and kind of where things are at? Well, the funny thing is that the founder of the company, Girolamo, he was never involved in the alcohol production in his life until he got to Zara with his wife. He was born in a small town called Santa Margherita Ligure near Genova. He was a salesman. He was selling ropes to the various navies. The Italy in mid 1800s were still divided, so it was not united yet. So he was selling ropes to the various kingdoms. That sounds like a lucrative opportunity. It was good. It was a good business. And then coral, coral for jewelry. Oh. Those days Mediterranean sea was full of coral, now there's none. They fished everything. So then he was sent from his town by the kingdom of Sardinia, which was one of the kingdoms, to a city called Zara. Now it's Croatia. Before being Croatia was Yugoslavia. Before Yugoslavia was Italy between the First World War and Second World War. Before that was under the Venetian Republic for more or less a thousand years. We're talking on the east side of the... It's under the Adriatic Sea. Adriatic Sea. Yes. Now it's a piece of land called Dalmatia. The funny thing is that the population, there was the Slavs and the Italians, they were talking to each other in Venetian dialect. So that's how long Venetia was there. So he was sent there with a wife as a consul of the kingdom of Sardinia. They found out that the city of Zara was always being called the city of the Maraschino. Why? Because there was a local grown cherry called Marasca cherry. Pharmacist Monk, beginning of 1700s, he started producing cherry based liqueur. Okay. So the first person in the family who started producing the Maraschino was the wife of Girolamo Maria. It was very common in those days to produce homemade cordials. So the first liqueurs were the cordials. So she started producing this product called Rosolio Maraschino. So it was a cherry distillate, a lot of sugar and some Bulgarian rose inside. Brandy? Cherry brandy? Cherry distillate. Try to say that in an American accent. Rosolio Maraschino. Maraschino? Also, I'm an idiot. I've been having these cherries for like 15, 20 years now. And I thought it was a place. I'm so dumb. What does Maraschino mean? Maraschino comes from the Marasca cherry. The Marasca cherry? Maraschino, yeah. Oh, God. Oh, and the original Marasca cherry is different than the Marasca cherry today that you're using? The original Marasca cherry is that the family was cultivating in Dalmatia, has a different gene from the one that we're using today. Before the Second World War, a professor, a botanist professor from the University of Florence, went from Florence to Zara. He had spoke with my grandfather because he was interested in this local grown cherry and he managed to go back to Florence with some cherries. So he planted them there and then when my grandfather reopened the company where we are now, we are in Padua near Venice, he remembered that the professor of Florence, he had some cherry trees. So he went there, he took some cherries and he planted them where we are now. So in those three steps the gene of the cherry has changed and that's why now we can call them Luxardo Manasca cherries. So it's our own variety. Aren't the cherries like very sour? Very sour, yes. They are small, very dark, a lot of sugar. The bricks are very high but they are very sour. Sweet and sour. Okay, so back to the liqueur. Is it that? That's the liqueur. That's the one? That's the one. I could tell you guys what it tastes like because I had some last night, but do you want to try it? Do you want to try it? Yes, for sure. So it's interesting because it takes four years for the production of this liqueur. Are you serious? But it's clear. It's clear. Why? Because we do an infusion, maceration of the solid part of the cherry, peel stones, leaves, branches of the tree for three years. Then we distill everything and then we put the liquid to rest in ash wood. Ash wood is a white wood that doesn't release color, flavor or aroma, but has a lot of pores. So it helps to amalgamate all the flavors. This is a wood barrel aged product. It's not aged. It's rested. Rested. Apologies. I had no idea. How long is the resting period? So the resting period is one year. And has it always been ash wood? Or has it adjusted? Always been ash wood. At the beginning of the, where we make the infusion, the maceration is large wood. And then we finish the product in ash wood. Where does it get the minty herbal quality? We should describe what we're trying here. Yeah, because it's very herbaceous, no? Yeah, very much so. It doesn't smell like cherries. Right. And the reason is because with the cherries, we put leaves and branches of the tree in infusion. So why three years of infusion? Almost like a grappa. In the infusion? It's more like a kirsch. Like this post distillation maceration. No, that's before. Before the distillation. So everything is being macerated and almost fermented together. No, it's macerated in alcohol. So it takes three years because we use fresh ingredients. So it takes a lot of time to extrapolate all the flavors. What is the alcohol base? Is it just a neutral? So it's sugar beet. Okay. Yeah. So when it comes down to European liqueurs, generally they'll be using sugar beet as a base. Obviously, if you're making liqueurs in the States, you'd probably be using a grain. If you're in South America, you'd be using sugar cane. So it's really down to geography. And history. And history as well. I mean, yeah, if you take, there were probably companies that started earlier. That's of European, probably the Dutch companies or the earliest liqueur companies. They would have used grape as their base. But then in the 1800s, you had Phylloxera, which kind of decimated like loads of grape crops. You know, they didn't even know if they're going to make cognac ever again. Everyone switched over to the sugar beet as well, because it was super popular at that point in time. Interesting. And has this always been the same recipe? Always been the same recipe. From 1821. 1821. I like that it's softly sweet. I like that it's quite viscous on the palate. I like that it has hints of cherry, but it's also a lot more complex than it is herbaceous and fresh. What do you use it for? You go, how do you use it? Cocktails, man. What kind of guys are those? How would you, so when this was released in 1821, how would the Italians be drinking it? It was a home cordial, so it was given to the guest at the end of the dinner, why you were chatting about business. And it can be used, I will talk about food, and G will talk about the cocktails. But you can use it over fresh strawberries, over fresh pineapple, it's very nice. Or you can bake, you can cook, you can put it over some sponge cake, inside creams, or in ice cream as well. So while we were salivating over your website earlier, we couldn't help but notice that you also make food flavorings or confectionery flavorings? We do confectionery products, so we have three lines of products. One are the portable liqueurs, as they call them. We have the confectionery liqueurs, the high proof, 140. We go from the whiskey, the rums, the fruit flavors, the herbs, and then we have a whole line of gems, where the only ingredients are fruit and sugar. And then we have the original maschino cherries, that are our champions. Yeah. That like completely changed the cocktail scene in America, and the cherry scene in America. Oh yeah. Well, and this is also 32% alcohol, and the finish on it, it's like cherry pie filling. Like it's not super cherry on the front, but on the back. It gets more cherry. Oh. It's like a cherry candy. Candied cherry. Yeah. Okay. So what do you use cocktail? Is there cocoa? Couldn't note a cocoa on it too? It was really good. It's very good. So in cocktails, I mean, you know, prior to cocktails, we were talking about, you know, how people used to enjoy it back in the day, and Matteo said like after your dinner, and what you'll find is, you know, there are two different types of liqueurs that you'd have after dinner. There's more medicinal ones, you know, associated with being good for digestion, so digestif, something like that. And then you have the more fresher ones, you're kind of like your Rosolios, things like your limoncello and stuff like that as well. And, you know, there was two reasons. One, it's great to have an excuse to have something after dinner to drink. So then also, back in those days, people don't have toothbrushes and toothpaste, sort of thing, so having something that was very highly perfumed after your dinner, obviously was like super invoked. With regards to cocktails, you know, the classics will be things like the Martinez, the last word, aviation and stuff like that. Me personally, you know, I always like to try the ingredients first and then work out how they're gonna work well and best. And you guys nailed it. You were like, oh yeah, it's very floral, very herbaceous and stuff like that. That's why using it in a last word just works so well. You know, for beginners who are first creating cocktails, you know, you just gotta think of your ingredients and then work things together in synergy, you know? So last word has three alcoholic ingredients. You've got your gin, super herbaceous, you know? You've got your herbal green liqueur, which is, you know, just pure herbaceousness. And as you guys said, you just tried the Maraschino, super herbaceous, but it brings in that little touch of florality to it as well. So those things are going to work really well in harmony. And then you just need the acidity just to create that depth of flavor. So you've got like two out of the five tastes, and that's just going to give it this nice, intense kick to it. So yeah, that's what I suggest. The last word. Last word makes sense. Yeah. Don't switch your gin for Kool-Aid. Don't. I would recommend it. But you can switch your gin with an escargot. Yeah. And then other places as well, they call it closing argument as well. Oh yeah. Yeah. So it's got a- Well, that's a little proper. That's a theater proper. Yeah. I think that's what they call it in England. So, you know. Oh, very, very awesome. We call it the e-sign on the line. E-sign on the line. Yeah. Click. Yeah. All right, what's next on the Parade of Lacour? Next up, I think we should probably try, I mean, if we're going along this herbal sort of route, there is a new product on the market from Luxardo, which is the Luxardo Del Santo. That's not properly a new product, but it's new for the market. New for us. Rob, do we have this one? Yes. I love the label here. The label is the Church of St. Anthony. That is the Saint of Padua. It's a product that we are producing for the last 35, 40 years, before it was owned by another company. Then they closed the company, so we bought the label and the product. But before that, it was produced by the monks in Padua. This was another monk one of these. Yeah. Your green herbal liqueur. The green herbal liqueur. It's 40 percent nice. Remember me talking about my grandpa's Coleman Cologne? Yes. It's in here too. We need to figure out what that is. Seriously, it's got to be a specific herb. So with these, they're very geographically influenced. You got to think with the monks, they would have been from different orders. So you've got your Benedictines and so on and so forth. But they'd all have the same education. They'd go to their monk school and learn monk stuff. Do the monk things. Yeah. They pass their exams and then the chief monk would send them to different monasteries around the place. And when they arrived, they have the same education, same books. They open their recipe books. They say, hey, let's make some medicine. And obviously, different things are growing. They didn't live in the time that we live today. It was, you can just order things online and have it turn out the next day. Maybe get a pigeon and throw it out the window. Hopefully, the best. Hopefully, something arrives at some point in time. You'd be like, well, this isn't available here. It doesn't grow here. So we use this ingredient instead. And that's how these products are very, very similar, but they develop in different ways. And when you go to somewhere like Italy, you will see so many different styles of amaro. They've all kind of got that first base recipe, but the ingredients you can't find because they don't grow in that particular area. But it's funny how these different things sort of branch off and grow in different ways. It's like how New York puts ketchup on hot dogs. Or what are you saying on there? Get people upset. We don't have a problem with that. It doesn't matter. It's like language itself. You're starting with the same blueprint and then making it regional and reflective of the area. Also, I'm thinking about self-addressed stamped pigeon enclosed for the return mail. Yeah. Have the little thing on its talon. So is this one made from local herbs reflecting the area? And the finish, it finishes, there's a nice bitterness to it. Is it gentian or quinine? Yeah, both. Okay. Perfect. I get that full on. Gentian and quinine. Yeah. Got them both. No scurvy. The bok is chincona bok with slimes. Chincona bok. Yeah, I think you're thinking of malaria. Malaria. No malaria. No malaria. No. No malaria. Well, you need to drink a bottle, but... And then it has, you know, the front of your tongue, it's more like rosemary. This is more on the bitter side of these that I've had. It's... The bitterness, like, cleans it up a little bit. Which I'm really like. I do too. Yeah. It seems more, a little more refined than the one that I had last night. A little softer and a little crisper at the same time. It's easier for this one to pick out the flavors. So, I mean, you've all been to, like, a whiskey tasting before, and someone gives you a whiskey straight off a barrel and you taste it, and they say, how does it taste? And you're like, oh, it tastes like fire. But then you add a little bit of dilution to it, you know what I mean? And then it separates all the flavors out and you get a better sort of understanding of the product. What we have here is 40%, not 55% sort of thing. So obviously you get that more sort of like depth of flavor. You can pick out the different botanicals a lot easier, you know. But also that gives you a really good sort of, sort of way of mixing it as well, you know. Essentially what you want to do to make those flavors more prominent is obviously add some more sort of dilution but extra flavor as well. So this in like a highball with some tonic, with something that also has that sort of green sort of element to it. So when I talk about green elements, you know, yeah, we're talking about gin, obviously, but then things like an unaged tequila, you know, I mean, it's literally made from a vegetable. So it's got that sort of green veg town nature to it as well. Same with your unaged, you know, rums as well, work really, really well. When I think about green spirits, I think about rye for some reason. Because every label is green. Yeah, that's why. But this is really nice. The sweetness on it is not cloying. And what Greg was talking to about the cocktail he made last night, I think the one that he was using has more of that viscous sweetness. Yeah. Where this really plays nicely and it ends up being a little bit more dry than many of these. The bitterness really dries it out. Even though it's softly sweet across the front of the palate. But you're not left with sweetness, you're left with this crisp, crunchy bitterness that is still there right now. And it's great. And it's really good. Yeah. We just launched the Santo in the US and it's going very, very well. So we are happy. Thanks to Monks. Thank you, Monks. Thanks to Monks. If you see a monk, high five to Monks. High fives to Monks. So speaking of new items or just items released in general, how does that process, like what is the R&D process, starting with Maraschino and then evolving from there? I think if maybe this is maybe not so true, I don't know. Obviously, Maraschino has been around for 200 years or plus years. So we don't know the R&D behind that. But with the Del Santo, as far as I know, we were pretty much only selling it in Italy. It was called Liguore Sant'Antonio. Sant'Antonio is the saint of Padua. But we were not able to call it Sant'Antonio here in the US because we have Sant'Antonio, the city, and Sant'Antonio distillery. So that would have been a little bit a mess, legally mess. That's not worth getting tied up in court. So it was actually our importers in the US who came over on a trip and tasted it. And they were like, wow, this stuff is amazing. We're not big fans of the bottle. And obviously, there's this potential legal issue. And then, yes, I think that was the R&D. I find it's also interesting. The R&D was not done by us. Speaking to something like this, so many people, because of what occurred a couple of years ago, became cocktail makers at home. Yes. So you saw more of an increase. That thing, I don't even talk about. But because of that, they were looking for alternatives to certain other things or just riffing off of it. So this kind of hit the US at a perfect point. Yeah. For me, it's the culmination of a perfect storm sort of thing. I think there's a lot of different factors, the way that we consume information these days. There's a lot of cocktail influences out there on Instagram and stuff like that. But then for years, we've been watching cooking channels and cooking shows and stuff like that. As a culture, we're like, wow, we love flavor. Flavor is great. Yes. And I've run out of recipes to cook at home. Yeah. I love booze. It's getting on. You know what I mean? It makes perfect sense. And it's fun. On the other hand, we are very close to the bartender community around the world. Why? Because with the maraschino, we were used at the beginning with the martini, it's a sweetener, because it was very difficult to find sugar. And so it's more than 150 years that we are in the cocktail recipe booklets. So, G and I, we travel all around the world and we talk with the bartender, so we try to see what they need and if we can produce it in Luxardo, we will do it. So, this is how the Vita Bianco came out. Oh, that's a good lead-in. Wait, we have one more thing to say about the Del Santo. Yeah. This is $35 on our shelf every day and at the time of recording, it's on sale for $31.99 and that is a shocking price for a very good alternative to an increasingly expensive stuff. Shockingly good. Shockingly good and a great price. With it, you can make the last word, which is, I don't know if you know, but an American classic. So, this is one of those cocktails that's actually created during Prohibition in Detroit. See, they also, as the last stuff they had around, they had to figure out what they could do with it. Yeah. Something like that. Well, I think this is a very select, speak easy. But Prohibition is really interesting as well because it basically, it was bad for you guys. But what it did for the rest of the world was great. Because all these American bartenders, you're like, well, what should I do? I could go underground working a speakeasy and grow a mustache and whatever. Or I could just up sticks. I can go to Cuba and learn about fresh juices and stuff like this. I can go around Polynesia and come back and invent Tiki. Or I could go to Asia and set up over there and then you end up having things like the Singapore Sling. Or you have people going to France, opening up Harry's Bar again, American style bars, or coming to the UK and writing the Savoy Cocktail Book. So prohibition was bad for you guys, but it brought cocktails and these ingredients to the rest of the world, so to think so. Yeah, cool. So well done on banning booze. Thank you. It wasn't there, but we'll take credit. We'll take bets on the back. We're kind of against that team here at Binny's Beverage Depot. Okay, segueing to Bitter Bianco. I went through a Luxardo Bitter Red phase. It was when Brett closed it out at this location. Yeah, you got great pricing, so you got a case. Bitter Bianco kind of blew up for us within the last couple of years. People were making, were trying to find ways to create the perfect clear or white cocktail. What is your recipe? It's made with the same herds of the Bitter Rosso, the classic Italian bitter. We infuse the herds and roots separately, though we blend everything together and then we distill. That's why it's clear. But it's not only clear, it has a yellow, a small yellowish color. It's given by the- It's given by the- A straw cast. It's given by the absent. Asincia Romano, so we at the end, because during the distillation, you keep all the flavors, but you don't have the bitterness anymore. Because it's a bitter, we give the bitterness with the Asincia Romano, so the wormwood. Wormwood. Yeah. It's there. I like the bitterness on all of these. For me, the really interesting thing is the citrus in it. So as a bartender myself, there's only bitter orange in it. There's no lemon zest or pink grapefruit. Oh, this is only orange for the citrus? Because it's like a broad citrus. But you can taste lemon zest and pink grapefruit. Are you getting the oranges locally? We try to buy all our ingredients in Italy. Okay. So yes, the oranges. These are bitter oranges. And then that's just the rind that you're using? Yes. I'm going to have to make martinis with this. That's what I'm thinking. I mean, you can make like a bitter martini with it. It's not of a move. So generally, and it's got sugar content. So it would be a very different style of martini, but it will work well. So I actually do a recipe for this similar to a martini of this. And it's 40 mils of this. Oh, you guys do ounces. We know how big a 50 mil is. We can play around with coffee so much that it's mil liters and grams. Okay, yeah. So I'd go 40 mils of your Luxardo Peter Bianco. I'd go 20 mils of a good London Dry Gin, preferably Luxardo. And then I'd go 15 mils of a nice Fino Sherry. Ooh, Fino Sherry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I'd shake it. So if you can quick shake, splash of olive brine in there as well. And then I'd do like a drop of olive oil on the top. So when you drink it, it will coat your tongue, create this viscosity, make the flavor last longer. And then serve it with at least minimum three green olives. If you're making a white Negroni with this. Oh yeah. I mean, there's, there's so many different ways you can do it. And that's because you're not trapped by orange as a flavor. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like usually when you're making a Negroni, you're trapped. You have to think of things that go well with orange. And there's a lot of things that do, but as soon as you try this, you're like, oh, pink grapefruit, lemon is every flavor's best friend. What am I going to do? That was the idea behind the Bitter Bianco, because at one point, well, one of our trips around the US, the Negroni Bianco was coming out. They were just starting and they were using other ingredients to reach the flavor of the bitter. So I got back and I spoke with my chemistry guy, he said, you need to come out with a good idea, good product. And I had this after one week. It has all the extra accoutrement built into the... Yeah, and then you're not to stick with the orange flavor, as G was saying, and not even with the color. So you can have the bitter flavor, but without the color, which is very important. Yeah, we've seen some crazy stuff. There was a hotel in London, the London, in London. The London. The London. Yeah, it was called the Goring Hotel. It's very famous, it's a very fancy hotel. And they did a garden Negroni. And so, you know, they were using gin as their base. Obviously, the Luxardo, a bit of Bianco and a driver mouffe. And then they, I think they sous vide it or cooked it with just like typical British garden sort of herbs. And then what you had was this just like bright green Negroni. That sounds delicious. It was great. We had another one at the Kempton and yeah, they just, they did a simple white Negroni Bianco. So again, you know, you got your gin, Luxardo, a bit of Bianco and a nice white vermouth. And then it was the ice cube. The ice cube was made from wild strawberries and aloe vera. And you know, you have your first sip, you give it a little stir and every sip after that, it's going to be a little bit different as that ice just infuses into the drink and brightens it up. It's a great drink. And it looks stunning as well because it's like bright red rock in there, you know. That's so much. That's a big part of it. Yeah. Just the way it looks, the way it is so appealing. This is so versatile. Yeah. Products like this, you know, so there's this thing in Italy called the Chacarato. Chacarato. I knew it was going to be correct. As an English person, I only speak one language. It's 11 years that he worked with us. And he's only taught me a swear word. Chacarato. Sorry. No, I think something like this, if you don't have much at home, just pour some of this into a shaker, get a little slice of grapefruit peel, and then just express the oils into the shaker, chuck it in there, loads of ice, give it a shake, serve it up. It's great. Well, and it's 30% alcohol, so it stands up by itself. But also, going back to what we were saying earlier on about, so your whiskeys, your high proof sort of thing. Well, once you add that bit of dilution, it levels out. These guys have just basically created an amazing bottled cocktail. All you have to do is add a bit of dilution and make it cold. And that's exactly what a shakerato does. You know what I mean? It just lengthens it out. And you're like, you're drinking, oh, wow, there's all these other flavors in there. This is crazy. Yeah, because you don't have to mix them. You know, you can drink it straight or as G was saying, with ice. Yeah. Shaked. Yeah, for me, it's the first time I tried it. I was like, this has some, this is like, you know, like some caraway seeds short of an aqua V. And so, like my brain's like, oh, aqua V. Well, how would I usually have that? And I'm like, fresh dill, salmon, whatever, you know, we're not going to put salmon in a cocktail. I probably would, but you might not like it. Whatever. But this, tonic water, little bit of lemon zest on the top, fresh dill, yeah. So simple. I made it for one of my American friends and he was like, oh my God, that's a patio pounder. So yeah. Bringing back the patio pounders. They did multiple episodes on this. So I just, I believe that's like, you know, a good summertime drink. Is that what that means? Yes. Yeah. Porch pounder, patio pounder. Porch pounder, there's categories. You have like a crisp rosé and you're like, oh, that's a patio pounder. Yeah. Okay. Nice. All good. So, the last podcast we recorded, I enthusiastically bought a bottle of coffee liqueur, and then I couldn't figure out why I couldn't sleep that night. Weird. I was laying there awake, like, what is wrong with me? It was the alcohol. It was probably the alcohol. It was the vodka you put inside. Never blame the alcohol. Never blame the alcohol. So, what's this that's gonna ruin my day tomorrow? So, this, I mean, there are lots of coffee liqueurs on the market. There are not many espresso liqueurs. And this, this is an espresso liqueur. So, how is it made? Well, we buy the raw coffee from the Port of Trieste. Trieste is famous for importing all the coffees for the Italian market. We send it to a toaster. They toast the coffee with our own recipe. That means that they burn very well the beans. They grain the beans and then we do hot infusion. When he says burn the beans, that sounds a little bit different. We're roasting the beans, but at the moment, if you were to go to the local hipster coffee shop sort of thing, and you would order a coffee, you notice with your espresso, there'd be some form of acidity to it, you know what I mean? Stuff like this. It's very fashionable at the moment to have these different types of roast. Yeah, going away is the espresso roast, and it's just good beans. But this is Italian, this is espresso, this is real espresso, which means you burn the beans. You will like, you get these things smoking. It's like if you go to Peru, for example, the beans are very green, because they like to have their sourness. Yep. If you come to Italy, our beans are not burned, but very, very dark. Super roasty, dark roast. Like bitterness is such a massive sort of part of Italian culture. You know what I mean? Like any, you, I mean, I know you guys have Malaw, but, you know, you go to Italy, you see the variety of different Amaro's. And Amaro literally means bitter. You know what I mean? It's, yeah, it's a massive part of the culture. So having an espresso, espresso should be bitter, should be intense, you know, yeah. I'm on your side on that. Yeah. I think light roast is kind of gross. There's like the ester, like funky flavors. I don't want funky flavors. For when you want to pour over, you want like light and fruity. You want light and fruity. Yeah. I mean, it depends what you want to do. A lot of people want light and fruity, but for an espresso, it's a little different. What you gotta understand is, you know, like, you know, Matteo's like, he's here, he's down, and his company, you know, a lot of stuff that they do has cultural significance. You know what I mean? And yeah, you like, I'm sure you've seen the memes of people breaking spaghetti, he sent a senator's warning. And putting pineapple on pizza. There are certain things you don't do. What are you doing? Yeah, I remember like my first week working for the company, they flew me out to Italy. They were like, let's meet this guy. We're having lunch. And like after lunch, you know, everyone's ordering coffee. And the waiter looks at me and says, you know, would you like a coffee? And I was like, I'll have cappuccino, please. Like I didn't know they were playing vinyl in the restaurant, but I'm sure it's like, like this. And everyone looked at me and I was just like, oh, I think I might be fired. A faux pas. Yeah, I didn't realize, you know, no cappuccino after 10 o'clock. It's a breakfast. It's the law. You can't do that. How dare you? So anyway, going back to the after, you know, we do for burning the burning and, you know, sort of a correct grind, then like Matteo said, it's a heated infusion, but you're doing the first 10 days of this heated infusion in water, you know, because you're making espresso, you know, after those 10 days, then they add the alcohol and it goes for another 10 days with the alcohol in it. And yeah. 10 days of steeping water, so 20, oh, yeah, 10 days. On coffee and then 10 more days of the same water and alcohol on coffee. Correct. Wow. There's like a maple syrup characteristic and another wine thing that, Rancio. Yeah, Rancio. Yeah. I was going to say it's like really mellow cherry and caramel and chicory root, which is kind of the Rancio kind of, that's also. That, yep, like the Cafe Du Monde, like chicory coffee. Yeah. Yeah. I like it. Good work. Good work on making another life ruining coffee liqueur. Also, the bottle is super sexy. Love these designs. What's with the fun restrictor? He's talking about this. We're changing that. This tiny little pour hole. Yeah, it's made of bur- It's like a hot sauce bottle. You're restricting my fun. This is- I think it's down to Italian style. So, like- No, it was made on purpose to avoid the drops will fall, fell on the label. Okay. Yeah. Keep it clean. But we are changing for that. It is a beautiful art deco label. For me, I love it when I'm bartending because it means I can just pick it up and hold my measure and just be- Yeah. And just do a really fancy pour. One, two. I always like to tell people this because telling is classy. So I have to pour classy as well. It's very nice. It's very nice. You should try in some cocktails as well. I mean, obviously- Well, you know the next question. You know. Well, espresso martini by chance. Yeah. I mean, it works amazingly well. It's an espresso- What's your recipe? So I like to go for equal parts. Equal parts, your vodka. I mean, use different spirit. I love playing around with the spirit basis as well. Each one will add sort of a different element to it. Yeah. But because it's a hot brew and not cold brew, if you do espresso martini, you can skip to put the espresso inside, the actual espresso coffee. Yeah. Because it's a real espresso. Yeah. So you will have the foam anyway. You add the vodka, the espresso liqueur and then shake it. That's it. I pause it to you and everyone else within Earshot, hear me out. Yeah. I was at a fancy Chicago bar and they had an espresso martini. It was vodka and espresso liqueur. Yeah. I'm gesturing wildly with my hands, waving them in the air, trying to express my passion for this. Their little touch was Regan's orange bitters. Yeah. I was like, that's awesome. I was like, listen, man, don't give me vodka, give me bourbon. Yeah. It's better. It's way better. Yeah. It's like Irish coffee. Pudding coffee on top of the caramel pudding, that is, it just turns into this wonderful drink. Yeah. So for me, I know, and I mean orange and bourbon is going to always be like a really perfect classic mix. And vanilla and coffee. Yeah. It just all works so good. Stop drinking espresso martinis, people, and put bourbon in there. So my top tip. Well, a lot of recipes that I've seen recently at bars and restaurants, they are starting to put a lot more American whiskey, whether it's bourbon or they're playing around with rye, but more of a bourbon ass rye. Oh, good enough. That was a terrible one. I personally prefer the spiciness of rye. I think it sort of, it stands out more for me, for my palate. Yeah. But what I prefer to do is also add like a little pinch of salt. Oh yeah. I think, you know, coffee's got that wonderful sort of like chocolatey nature. If you're making a chocolate cake, you're always going to add like a little pinch of salt. You want that nice foam. Our secret ingredient in chocolate cake here is mayonnaise. I mean, I'm not going to put that in the drink. They put mayonnaise in the cake. It makes it super moist. Don't put it in the cocktail though. No, that's not happening. But I do put a little bit of orange zest in there. Oh yeah. I put it straight into the shaker. Can we have dessert? And dessert is just the drink that we're talking about right now. I mean, that's what a dessert cocktail is. Absolutely. That's the point. And if you're boring, use cognac instead of bourbon. Ouch. Just throwing shade out. Yeah, I know. What else have you been seeing? You know, long history, but what else are you seeing? Where you're going? You know, we're seeing more non-alcoholic spirits. We're seeing more low ABV, things like that. Where do you see yourselves? And does it have to be an adjustment? No, but we will never produce non-alcoholic product. We, as per low ABV, we... Says the guy who makes the most famous cherries. Apart from those. These stacks of yellow cases. And the jams, and the jams. As per low ABV, we try to work with G to produce some low ABV cocktails using our liqueurs. Which is really easy to do, because, I mean, like, you know, I'm so lucky I get to work with these guys, which means I get to go to Italy and, you know, my upbringing in the bar world has always been sort of very, you know, American influenced. We have a very specific style, which is always spiritful words. You have your base spirit and everything revolves around that. You go to Italy, they don't do it in that way. You know, you think of a Milano to Reno, there's no base spirit to it. You think of a Spritz, there's no base spirit to it. You think of Americano, no base spirit to it. You go to Bellini. You know, none of these cocktails have a spirit. You know what I mean? We could go to Negroni, that does have a spirit, but that came later. It was a Milano, Torino before that, and it was Americano before the thing. So they're more concerned with flavor. Yeah, and this whole aperitivo culture, which is like massively on trend globally at the moment, you know, everywhere around the world, people are trying to drink better, I think really has parallels and really encapsulates that sort of like low ABV style of drinking, you know what I mean? There's always food involved. It's always, and you know, at first, it was a hard thing for me because I'm English and like the weather's bad in England. So we have a very specific style of drinking. It's big beer, shots, lots of shots, lots of big beers. Like, let's get messed up real quick because hey, we live in England. You go over to Italy and you're like, wow, this place is glorious. Like everything's so amazing. We want to remember the day, you know? And yeah, so to me, that's what, you know, my romantic view is what this aperitivo culture is like. So creating these sort of like lower ABV drinks is so easy with these products because you have in there so much flavor. You also have the alcohol and you also have the sweetness, you know what I mean? So there's not much you have to do to these products to get the best out of them. You know what I mean? Well said. That's a hot category. The plus is it is exploding in popularity. The minus is it's going to be pretty competitive, but you've got pretty good heritage here behind the brand. It's 200 years and plus. Well, I wasn't around back then, but you know. You make anything blue? No. We have to recreate this blue drink. The Acto. I don't know. There was one. Do we get the one with the blue? What's the one with the blue label though? Oh, the Antico. The Antico. Antico. That's right. Antico is our version of vermouth. So G was pushing for years, then I came out with the idea. Yeah. It's practically is the juice of the cherries are fermented. The juice of the cherries are fermented. It's fermented. So we produce a wine. It's a cherry wine vermouth. Cherry wine vermouth with the spices of the vermouth inside. Are you serious? Yeah. It's a great product. Oh my God. It's not very well. Can we get this? Can you sneak us some? You have to try it. It's amazing. And the other thing that I find really interesting about this as well, coming from the bartender community and being a bartender for like 16 years, prior to doing this, is you see so many parallels with the bartending world, like what they're doing with regards to sort of like zero waste, reusing a lot of things and stuff like that. These guys are doing as well. That maraschino you just tried earlier on, so floral, so herbaceous, most of its leaves. The juice, they're not using for it. So what they're doing is, right, we're going to create something else out of this, we're going to do it. Almost in a bartender's way, we're going to ferment it first, then we're going to do this, then we're going to do that. The cherries that you've tried, the best cherries in the world, they don't have any stones in them. Those stones, they don't throw those stones away, they get them, they use it to make their amaretto. You know what I mean? And then they're using all sorts of stones of apricots in that amaretto as a base, and then the fruit from it, they're making apricot liqueur, apricot jams. So this whole movement that we've got going on, globally, in the bar world at the moment, there's so many parallels with what Luxardo are doing, which I find, you know, so fascinating. A level of sustainability that just occurs. Yeah, but back then, you know, they didn't call it sustainability, it's called common sense. It's like, yo, that's what it is. It's like, hey, we've got this stuff, let's do something with it. Like, how would we, yeah, this doesn't make any sense. So production can't be huge on that with the juice of the cherries? It's not huge, but it's, the juice is not used for the antico, it's used for the Sangamorlaco, which is our cherry brandy. It's used for the syrup of our cherries. So the antico production is not big, the sales are not huge, because people don't understand the product. Because it's not written, we cannot write cherry vermouth, because vermouth is only made with grape wine. Yeah. Is it in the US? It is, yeah. It is? It is. I gotta look into this. Score some samples, man. Yeah, we gotta get this rolling. I need to try this. Are you seeing it more on-premise, or? It is on-premise. It's mainly for cherry Negroni, for example. You give that little bit of sourness. There sounds delicious. Are you kidding me? Yeah, we're doing some research. My favorite way of having it is like the Spanish serve. Do you know Spanish serve when it comes to vermouth? No? Okay, so it's a classic serve. It's the best way, in my opinion, of drinking vermouth, and especially this one because this has a real sort of funk like an umami nose to it. So I think to me it's like olive tapenade. Okay. And then so the classic Spanish way of drinking vermouth is to just have a glass full of ice, like a load of vermouth in it, like a big bit of vermouth in it. You know, and then on the top you're just going to put like a slice of orange and then preferably three green olives. You know what I mean? Then you can have a little mini carafe on the side with some soda water, and if you want, you can add some soda water to it. That's it. Have some tapas with it. Super refreshing, great as a digestivo before or after a meal. Oh, but then it's an all day. It's a trick. That's an all day. But then I think, you know, great for mixing. But then, you know, in restaurants, like, you know, pro before your meal, after your meal with a cheese board. That sounds amazing. We need to eat like that. That's true. Come to Italy. Why do we do this before lunch? Okay. Outstanding stuff. Keep it coming. It's good to know. I'm glad to, you know, put a name to a label that I've been looking at for 20 years. So, thank you for coming. Oh, thank you for inviting us. Thank you for sharing the expertise on how to use this stuff. I've got some ideas. The rest of my bottle is not going to last very long now. Yeah. I'm going to have to get another one. Oh, darn. I know you can buy some actually. Probably can. Mrs. Versh is not going to take that well. Just stay up all night. All right. Cool. Thank you for coming onto Barrel to Bottle The Binnys Podcast. Thanks for listening. We'll be back in your feed next week. Cherry to Bottle. Cherry to Bottle. We'll be back in your feed next week with something less cherry but equally as good. Until then, I'm Greg. I'm Rob. I'm Matteo. And I am G. Keep tasting.