Welcome back to another episode of Barrel to Bottle, The Binny's Podcast. I'm Greg Versch. In the room with me, Pat Brophy, Director of Spirit Sales. Hilary Jernag, Communications Coordinator. Barb Steadman, Assistant Director of Wine Sales. And this week, we have a very special guest. Actually, you're welcome back. Second appearance on Barrel to Bottle, David Guffy, winemaker at Hess. Thanks, Greg. I can't believe you invited me back. Oh, yeah. We're pretty stoked at the opportunity. So we have a pretty cool line up of wines to taste today. But first, I was hoping to get some stories from you. Already. You work out of the Hess Winery in Mount Vitor. Yes. How's your commute? So my commute on most days is pretty easy. We have a little two lane road that is an easy drive in the summer and the winter like the one we're just experiencing very wet. So we've already had the road blocked once or twice from landslides. It's always an adventure coming up on the mountain. You ever get bike riders? Constantly. Yeah, constantly. I went to a winery following the bike riders. I'm like, a couple of jackasses. God. And then they were in our group. It tastes like wine with them. Between that and the tourists and limos for wine tastings, it's got to be quite a trial. You know, I was really bored a few weeks ago and I've been up there 20 years. So I figured that I've driven that road summer run 18 to 25,000 times. Oh, man. Yeah. Don't ask me why I did. I was a really random thought. I definitely had some help getting up there. Somebody pulled over and was like, are you going to Hess? I was like, yeah, we're here. I appreciate the scenery in Napa Valley. So it was a very lovely spot, a top mount theater. We had a nice lunch, very sunny, really gorgeous, yeah. And the modern art exhibit is one to behold for those who enjoy art. Barb's right. It's a beautiful spot. You know, every day I pull up with my truck and I get out. It's got the mountain beauty. It's got Napa Valley. It's, you know, it's hard to beat. Smash cut back to the 90s. You were making Pinot Noir in the Central Coast. How did you get started in Hess? It was an interesting story of fate. I'll try to condense it. But after many years of making Chardonnay and Pinot Noir in Santa Barbara County, I sort of woke up one day and said, gee, you know, Cabernet was one of my first loves for a wine as a wine student. And I said to myself, I'd really like to try my hand at Cabernet. I knew if I wanted to make Cabernet, I wanted to go with the best Cabernet was grown consistently and I feel that that's in the North Coast. That's Napa and Sonoma. And as fate would have it, after a short vacation, I came back and there was an opportunity waiting for me on my voicemail. Went up, interviewed and four months later, I was at Hess. And that's how we all found our dream jobs, isn't it? Just get home from vacation and there's a voicemail. Lucky. Having spent the last almost two decades at Hess, you've seen some pretty incredible disasters in California, right? I think it seems like such a perfect place with an endless- Dude, Hillary's only been there once. I did almost break up with my ex-boyfriend there. Break up with your ex-boyfriend? I mean, we did break up, but not there, but almost, overlooking the barrels. You might as well do it in a beautiful spot. Yeah, it could have been its own disaster. Inspiration. I think going back to Greg's point, it's such an idyllic spot, and yet we talk about the earthquake in 2014, the wildfires of 2017. Yeah, you saw that earthquake in 2014. How did that go? Yeah, the earthquake, everyone in the valley is thankful that it was the middle of the night because it was a good shaker, and we had a lot of barrels come down, we had a lot of tanks rupture, we had a really old part of our winery where we lost literally 40,000 gallons right out the door in a matter. I wasn't there because it was 3.30 in the morning. Literally flowing wine. Yeah. It was a river of wine that came busting through the walls. The good news for us is now we finally converted what was a very old space that needed renovation, kind of forced our hand, we renovated it, and we opened this brand new cellar that we called Lion's Head. It's totally suited to small lot red fermentation, which of course is what Mount Veeder is all about. It gave us that opportunity to give it a new life. We just opened that cellar right before the harvest of 18. I think I heard something like you had purple driveway or sidewalk. Yeah, when the earthquake came, so middle of the night, so I was actually up in Lake Tahoe. I got a call from the owner about three minutes after the earthquake, asking me if I had felt that, and I wasn't quite sure what that meant since I was in Tahoe. But it took me a second to catch on, and I was down to the winery by the daybreak. Wait, were you busted? No, I was not busted. So when we got there, our courtyard has a lot of pathways of decomposed granite, which is sort of whitish, and all of those were purple. The weird thing was with social media, there was a lot of people that came to the winery in the next week just to see the wreckage, the carnage of purple pathways and twisted tanks. It took us about two weeks to clean up and pick up the winery after all of that. The barrels were tossed in a large pile that was sort of a dangerous game of Jenga. You pick one off the top and the whole pile would reshift. There's nothing like the sight of a barrel that's been flattened like a pancake on the bottom of the pile. Quite something. You've seen some fires too. God, if the locusts come, I'm leaving. That's all I'm gonna say about this. It's frogs first, then locusts. Yeah, we've had some weird weather just like you guys, and weather related events. So the wildfires of 2017 were really scary. They came through all of our... We have three vineyards up on Mount Vedar, and it burned on basically all four sides of all vineyards. The vineyards do stop the fire. Vines don't burn. So that's a good little trivia piece you can take away. Yeah, the fire was a bad deal on the winery side. We were really lucky. We had a lot of great help. First day or so, we had nobody up there. By the second day, we had a CDF team watching the winery. So a crew of about 13 people. And then once it got hairy, we had about 130 people up there, protecting the Christian Brothers and also the Hess Collection. And you're talking like machinery fire trucks, bulldozers, helicopters, what do they have? Yeah, we actually had a team from Arizona who was stationed at our winery. But yeah, big on fire trucks. We supplied the water and they fought the fire. So it was awesome. The road was closed. It was blocked by the Highway Patrol and then later on the National Guard. But every day, I was able to get up to the winery to maintain some of the fermentations that were going on at that point. And we worked through the local authorities. I didn't sneak in. And so I would go in with usually a representative from the fire department or the sheriff's department. And one day we went in and I went in with some other people up on Mount Vedar and they finished what they needed to do earlier. So they came back to me and I still had work to do. I said, well, go ahead and get off the mountain. I'll just take an ATV home because the road was closed, right? So once I was done at the winery, I hopped on this little four wheeler and tootled down the road, got to the road break. And like I told Greg, I thought, well, they're going to stop me, right? Because here comes this weirdo from a behind the scenes place. And they just opened up the barricade and let me go through. And I live about three or four miles from that point. And it was so surreal because Napa was entirely covered in smoke. You couldn't see the sun. People are wearing masks everywhere. And here's this weirdo driving an ATV down a city street, you know, and nobody even gave me a second look. It was the most surreal, weirdest, I'll never forget moment from that fire. I'm not sure if that's credibility for you and your appearance or... You look legit. You're real authority. He's probably fine. Perhaps it was just exhaustion of the first responders in Napa at that point. The police were a little stretched at that point. Right. It's just like everything is disorganized and crazy and chaotic. That's a gripping story. That's really cool. Well, the visual of all of it, I mean, back to the pictures and videos we saw in the days surrounding all of it, you can only imagine. Yeah. You were literally making wine while that was happening. Yeah. We had fermentations going on, which was really interesting. All of the fermentations finished, which was nice. We would have liked to be able to work over the red wines a little more, get more extraction out of them, but they finished and that was good. One of the other things that I'll never forget is when we got up there, the first day we were allowed to pick, and you're talking about two weeks after the fire started, we went back to our upper vineyard and the crew started picking just after the sun came up, and we noticed a small fire just off the vineyard block in the forest, and there was a tree on fire right at the base. We tried to put it out, and everything else was smoldering around it. We tried to put the fire out, and we did, and then those birthday candles, the trick ones, they pop back on, so the tree was on fire again, and so we realized that it was burning from the inside out. It had come through the ground and it was up in the roots, and it was burning the base of the tree from the inside out. So we found some fire department folks, and they tried to put it out, and they said, listen, the best thing you can do is just let it fall. And so we rerouted everybody because it was coming across the driveway, and about 4 or 4.30 that afternoon, a 300-foot tree fell through a vineyard block that had already had two other trees fall on it during the fire. So David, you wanted to make Cabernet, and that's really what we're going to focus on today. We have the Select cab, which is North Coast. We have the Collection Allomi, the Hess Collection Mount Vier, and we might be lucky enough to try The Lion today. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. We've- Hope so. It's Cabernet, Cabernet, and- A lot of Cabernet. So we're going to start with Hess Select, Cabernet. This wasn't a thing before you showed up at the Hess Winery, right? No, it was. They had established the select programs back in the early 90s. I got there in the late 90s. But we certainly, what we did at that point is we took it from a California Appalachian and we focused up in the North Coast because, again, from a consistency standpoint, it's the best. North Coast, it really means, what it boils down to is the areas up above Napa and Sonoma. So you're looking at Lake and Mendocino counties primarily for this blend. Both counties, super amazing. This is the blend where we focus. I like to focus on small vineyard blocks, generally family run, because they can farm those vines exactly as needed versus a very large vineyard block where you get a crew and you just start them in one point and they go to another point. If you prune the same vine year in and year out, you tend to get to know it. And so you get better quality because the vines are typically more balanced. And the other part I like about it is because I work with 30 or 40 very eclectic growers up there. And nobody else really knows what these vineyards are. So I consider it really big job security. And there's no direction on these things. It's not like, hey, it's a street address. You turn on a dirt road and you drive back to it. There's an oak tree and you hang a left. And it's a patchwork quilt of what I consider really good quality vineyards and something I'm really proud of. Awesome. So right now we're tasting the 2016 Hess Select Cabernet Sauvignon North Coast. What's this retail at, Greg? $16.99. I think it's delicious. One of the things we always like to talk about in this very affordable price range especially is accessibility, right? It's easy to drink. It's not too tannic. There's not overpowering oak. It has a very approachable style that's good for parties. Even those who maybe think they don't enjoy a cabernet regularly because it's too big and too dry, this is delicious. It's juicy fruit forward but still has really balanced structure. I think it's a great value. It has been for a couple of decades for sure. It's delicious, I think. Good raspberry notes, a little bit of chocolate, cocoa. Yeah, and it's one of the things we do in our Select series. These are wines that I like to make for my aunt who has wine five times a year. In the Select series, Barb hit it. It's got to be accessible. If it's a red wine, it's going to be very undrinkable, very smooth, not so hard on the big tannin, so there's the structure. That's a common theme with all of our Select wines. Okay, you bring up your aunt. This is a big question I have. What is your family think you do? Oh. Like you said, your wife works in the industry, but what is your family think you do? They have no idea. It's very glamorous, right? They have no idea. I think a lot of people don't know what winemakers do, right? You think we just sit around and taste wine all day, which is very much partly true. But of course, there's a big other part of it as well. Part of the farming operation is really something I enjoy, the grape purchasing, the vineyard growing. I really enjoy that part. So basically, I'm not telling you what I do. Yeah. You didn't answer that. You're a secret agent. I was wondering if you're going to call me. I don't know. Speaking of your wife, Reps of Cooperage. She represents arguably one of the premier Pinot Noir and Chardonnay Coopers from Burgundy called Francois Ferrer. There's a little bit of pressure to use those barrels. Really? Yeah. They're really good barrels. They're really excellent barrels. We had one of our Chardonnays we call the Lioness at lunch, and that wine features her barrels because it's just built perfectly for that style. Let's talk barrels. So we talk about barrels a lot in the spirits and beer industry, but what is your interactions with the Coopers? Do we get down to the Coopridge level and work with them to make the barrels? Generally, no. But certainly over the years, when I first started in the industry, there was maybe 10 or 12 Coopers, and now there's exponential time, that number of Coopers. So it's really important to understand what their game plan is in terms of sourcing, and the biggest thing you look for in a Coopridge is consistency. Every Cooper has a different flavor stamp, and so what you want to know is that if you like that flavor stamp, you're going to get something very similar next year, and it's not going to take a right turn on you and go somewhere else. I think it may be, and Greg and Pat especially can probably speak to this, the difference with Coopers and Coopridges and select barrels is with wine, it's so much more controlled. Those are in a very controlled temperature, maintained environment, whereas with whiskey barrels, it's all about the environment and the heat and the environmental factors that are growing on. So specific barrel selections just isn't as important, I think, as much as the fruit and the terroir, right? Yeah, certainly I've seen some of the bourbon barrel production and it's night and day for wine barrels. Oh, yeah. I mean, and so much of a spirit, so much flavor of a spirit, the overwhelming percentage is of flavor and aroma and of spirit is going to come from the barrel. Whereas, I mean, I assume that you're still looking for the barrel to play a secondary role. I mean, is that fair? It is, and it depends on the style of wine you're making, right? So we make a number of different Chardonnays, some of them with no oak, some of them very light with oak. So you're looking for a low impact barrel. And then as in the case with our Lioness, it's going to be a bigger impact. So you look for different qualities, different coopers for that. I guess just on sort of the same subject. One of the current trends in the wine industry is bourbon barrel aged wines. Is there any thought given to that for you, something you would do at Hess or something you're interested in? It's not actually anything I'm interested in. That's the New England IPA of wine making. You're right. I'm just saying some people are doing it. Maybe Dave wants to. You're right. I mean, some people are doing it. I don't know. To me, it's really gimmicky. It's to me, it's all about really good fruit and complimenting it with the wine making and the barrel attributes, not dominating with some bourbon flavors in Cabernet or whatever it is you're doing. What you're saying is you don't want the highest alcohol Cabernet you could possibly make. I didn't say that. What's this next Cabernet we're tasting here? In the glass right now, we have the 2016 Hess Collection, Cabernet Sauvignon, Allomi Vineyard. Yeah, this is our Allomi Cabernet. I've been to Hess for 20 years. And one of the reasons why is the vineyard properties. Five different vineyards around Napa Valley, three of them up on Veeder, two of them down in the valley. And this Allomi Vineyard is down in Napa Valley. It's more specifically in an area in the northeast part of Napa called Pope Valley. It's warm and it sees a nice temperature change, right? From the very warm days it can have up there to really cool nights. And it creates a really special condition for Cabernet. We planted this vineyard back in 97 and 98. One of the things I really like about working for the Hess family is that we did a very good job planting it. I give us like a B, B plus, but there was a couple of blocks where, and it hadn't been a vineyard before, so there wasn't a blueprint, where we needed to make some adjustments that required reinvestment, like pulling it out, putting in a different root stock, putting in a different variety. And we made those small tweaks. And ever since we did that, it's just an amazing vineyard. It's really consistent. The climate is consistent. The fruit and the quality of this wine is really consistent every year. And so it's something I appreciate with the vineyard. It makes your life easier as a winemaker. Totally. Yeah. It's a ripe wine. Yeah. I think we can talk about the difference between valley floor grapes and mountain grapes, right? It's not as taut, not as tannic. But if you're looking for like an o'giving, rich, full, this is what you're looking for. Yeah. Very rich, aromatic. I get a lot of that deep dark, like cassis, that almost currant, not thick and syrupy, but very flavorful, rich, berry fruit, and some really nice toasty vanilla on the finish especially. But I love the ripeness of kind of that heart of Napa Valley as a foil to what we're going to taste next, which is Mount Vedar, mountain fruit. Yeah. You can just check out the texture between the select, the body, and then you go up into Allomi, and now you're in Napa, and you start to understand why Napa is Napa, because it's just more density, and then when you get to the Vedar, yeah, you're going to see a little more structure. I think this Allomi is really classic Napa Valley style right now. Yeah, it's wonderful. Yeah, very rich and voluptuous. How much can we find this for on our shelves, Greg? Right around 30 bones. It's great value, delicious. It's not a lot of scratch for a wine this good. Right around $30. That's terrific. All right, next up, we have Hess Collection, Cabernet Sauvignon, Mount Viter. This is really going up the slopes. It's also going up in money. We're about $60. Well, up on the slopes, everything is a little more difficult. Everything's farmed by hand because machinery just doesn't work up there so great. It's too steep. The thing I love about Mount Viter is that it's still wild. When you come up to my appalachian and you start looking for vineyards, you're probably not going to find them because most of them are growing up on the mountaintops. So from the road, you're not going to see them. Also, there's such a small amount of grapes that are in the appalachian itself. It's mostly still forest and wildlife corridor and untouched ground because it's too steep to do anything with. So this is a Cabernet. We have three vineyards up there from 1,000 to 2,000 feet. It's obviously got great mountain Cabernet structure. I could expound upon Malbec and how much I love it as a blending grape. This has got about 16 percent Malbec blended into it. And the reason that I love it is that it offers such a great mid-palate weight and it helps smooth down the big tannin. And so we use a lot of Malbec in our blending. And I can yammer on about that. This might be a wine noob question, which it probably is. Is the Malbec grown up there too then? And can you still call it Mount Vedar if it's not? The Malbec is grown up there. So Vedar has a really special climate. It's the coolest mountain growing district in Napa Valley. And Malbec likes cool weather, by my estimation. So we grow it in our Mount Vedar vineyard. So it's Mount Vedar. And you have a varietal percentage of down to 75%. This is about an 83% Cabernet blend right here. I mean, in comparison, we talk about Argentina and its high elevation vineyards there for Malbec. And it's kind of the same level, right? You said yourself that some of yours are some of the highest elevation that we know of in the wine world for Malbec, but also for Cabernet up there. So what we talk about for high elevation grapes is more like thicker skins, which leads to more structure, more skin tannin, right? Which is also where the phenols and a lot of the flavor compounds come from. A plus. All right. That's why we keep Stedman on staff. Right? To Pound's point, and the question I have for you, this is going a little off topic on the Cabernet flight, but we know you're a Malbec hound and you love it. My question is, do you ever go toe-to-toe with the Colomay project, with your Malbec and theirs? Are there bragging rights? Do you guys trash talk each other about who's- Cracking knuckles, giving each other the side eye? We all know you love Malbec now and we've tasted some of your stuff, but who does have the bragging rights in the Hess family? That's my question. It was really weird because Colomay was developed at about the same time we had made discovery of Malbec on our own. So both kind of grew organically in their own area. I was lucky enough to go down to Colomay in 2016, I think, and spent a week tasting a lot of Malbec. And at the end of that week, we went out to a place in a town called Cafe Jatte. And it was a typical wine maker hangout. They eat late, so we met at like 10 or 1030. The restaurant had hardly anybody in it. But there was one couple who was sitting there and they actually had a bottle of this Hess Mount Viter Cabernet sitting on their table. And so the wine maker at Colombo Etibau, he goes over to their table and speaks to them and says, you know, the wine maker is actually here and they'd visited the winery and they'd seen that, which was great. And so that was a nice incident. But then later that night, there was more wine makers that came into the restaurant. And there was a lot of sharing of bottles. And it was really interesting to try their Malbec. And I'd actually brought some of my own Malbec there. And it fit right together, you know. It was definitely a sameness about it. That was a really, really cool experience. Now as to bragging rights, you know, depends on the vintage, I suppose. I think there's some mutual respect going on. And we've certainly proven that we've got some really great Malbec and a great condition for Malbec. It doesn't, it's kind of like Pinot. It doesn't grow great everywhere. But Veeder, Veeder's the spot. And it shows in this glass that the difference between this one and the Allomi, you get a lot more peppery quality, a darker, richer fruit that's more on the black raspberry end. Yeah, I agree. And more of the berry skin component, less of the berry juice. So it's not quite as... So it comes off as more serious. Correct. More serious, more complex, less of... It's a very serious wine for serious wine drinkers. Serious. Yes. This is no joke. Why do we have games? He invited you. He's got the only beard in the room. It's true. I'm bringing legitimacy to the podcast. Oh yeah, Greg's had a beard for years. Maybe just because it's turning white, it kind of blends in with your pale face. Because you shaved your head. Just keep the illusion. It's radio. They don't know. I'm not going to adopt this. Yeah, you could be happy. Pat, they don't know I might have a beard. Nobody knows. It's illusion. So, we're moving up to The Lion, Hess The Lion. We have 2013 right now. And this is one of those iconic wines of California. Yeah, absolutely. The Lion is representing our reserve level of cab. So, every good vintage, we will make a very small amount of what we consider the very best. I say every good vintage because we actually took some time off making this wine. We stopped producing in 9, 10, 11, and 12. Two reasons. Both of those those vintages were progressively cooler, right? 9, 10, and 11. 11 was a very cool vintage on a very large crop year. Quality was not so great. And so we wanted to reserve our best lots for actually our Mount Vedar Cabernet, which we've made since day one. It also gave us an opportunity to replant our vineyards. And so we did some replanting in that time and we came back strong with 13. With 13, we kind of retooled a little bit. We had some time off to kind of evaluate and think. So along with my team, which I work with another three wine makers at the winery, we brought in an outside consultant and her name is Celia Welch. Celia is super talented, has been in the Valley about as long as I have. You know Celia? Yeah. Perfect. So makes her own Cora wines and is involved with quite a few what would be considered icon wines in the Valley. If you taste this wine and you find a textural difference than the Mount Vedar, yes, that's Celia's imprint and we wanted to bring her up because I've been up on Vedar 20 years. I might be immune to tannin and she works with Valley Floor. So it's a great cross-check when we sit at the blending table and that's where she influences the wine. This is incredibly fine-grained and structured and it takes the weight and heft that the other wines have and just puts this big frame on it. It's so elevated and then on the finish there's this really gorgeous lift of acidity. It still has all the tannic structure and really just I love that live mid-pallet mouthfeel that's creamy but on the finish it just kind of pops, it's so lovely. I sent around again the Mount Vedar cab bottling so that we could do kind of a side-by-side comparison and for me just on the nose, one glass and the other, it's a complete difference. It's so beautiful. I think the Mount Vedar expresses this really bright kind of youthful style of berry and Mount Vedar cabernet and then the lion has much more richness and structure and complexity. There's a lot more aromatic, there's floral. Even just smelling this lion cab is intoxicating and I mean that metaphorically and physically. That's really good. Yeah, it's stunning. It's beautiful. Yeah, this is one of the better wines I've had recently. It's days like this, I think I have a cool job. Yeah, that's all right. Yeah, but David Guffy's got a cooler job. But nobody knows what he does. He's like a secret agent scientist. He did reveal he's got like three coworkers though, so that's good. Somebody does something. We do know also from the past he has a couple of cool dogs. You have dogs? I do have dogs. Yes, I do. I have a couple of Labradors, they're great. I have a question I always like to ask, winemakers and folks in the industry that I meet, and one is, aside from the obvious Bordeaux and Argentina comparisons we've made with you with Cabernet and Malbec correlations, if there were somewhere else in the world you could be making wine, where would that be? Is there any region? Would you want to go down to Baja? Would you want to be in Rhone? Is there anywhere else in the world that would speak to you in terms of planning your feed and starting something new? There's a lot of areas in the world for wine. I mean, Tuscany, number one, right? Who wouldn't want to live there and make wine in Tuscany? Fantastic. I don't know. It sounds like it would be full of Italians. Hey, hey. Would you make Cabernet there or what would you do? I don't know. I don't think Cab probably do one of the blends. So maybe Cab would be involved. A lot of Merlot. Some Merlot. I'd have to get over my version to Merlot. But Tuscany is a beautiful spot. I have affinity for Burgundy. I think it would be a ton of fun to be in Burgundy. Go back to your roots with Pinot. It'd be really tough as a newcomer because there's not a lot of newcomers in Burgundy. But that would be really interesting. I mean, there's always Tahiti, right? We could bust open those frontiers. Let's go to Jamaica. Pineapple wine. Why not? I'd like to talk about how cool this Cabernet comparative tasting has been with Dave and the four different wines that he's making from different vineyard sites and in different styles, the Hess Select. And at different prices that all deliver. Very different prices, yeah, for different occasions. The Hess Select comes in at that affordable price range for folks like his aunt and my mother-in-law who loved it by Perti, Cabernet Sauvignon. They've got the Hasselomi Cab, which comes in high 20s on the market, which is a good introduction to Napa Valley. Nice, ripe, lush fruit. And then we have two Mount Vedar bottlings that go, according to Greg, up the slopes. Yeah. And the Mount Vedar Cab 2014 was fantastic. And then moving up even further into the Alps, that Lion Cab, which showed really well today, I think. Was that everybody's favorite? Yeah, that was an incredible one. I mean, I don't get the opportunity to try that kind of stuff very often, so it's hard not to be impressed. Yeah, really impressive style. And I think the important thing to note about paying more for wine is about complexity and it's about quality of fruit and specific vineyards and wine making techniques. And we've definitely established that today with David Guffy. Now it's time for the Q&A segment of Barrel to Bottle, The Binny's Podcast, where we answer your questions. If we answer your question on the podcast, we will give you a $20 Binny's gift card. Write your questions to us at email, comments at binnys.com, or hit us up on social media, at Binny's Bev on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. Our question this week comes in via Twitter from Jamie M. Jamie's question is, what is your favorite coffee table wine book? Oh my gosh. I think I'm gonna have to go with wine dogs. Who doesn't like the coffee book or coffee table book, Wine Dogs? I've never heard of it. Yeah. It's a call back to episode 26 of Barrel to Bottle, The Binny's Podcast. Yeah. Well. I mean, it's fantastic. Are your dogs featured in that book, Dave? Only two years in a row. Is that something that they produce only in Napa Valley or is it worldwide? Yeah. You know what? I think it's worldwide. Of course, it sells best in Napa Valley, but the couple who produce it are from Australia. Very interesting. I saw that there's different editions, right? Wine Dogs California, Wine Dogs Australia. Yeah. Who gets the cover spot? Is that a coveted spot? You got to pay for it. Yeah. I got to go with Karen McNeil. It's not a coffee table book, but just as a wine 101 that anybody can get into the industry with, that's a pretty solid read. It covers the basics and is a great jumping off point. If I'm answering about wine books, yeah, it's Hugh Johnson's Wine Atlas. That's the one I keep around the house and I keep on hand all the time as a reference. Also, let's not just count Wine for Dummies, which sounds a bit rudimentary but is written by a master of wine, and is a really good introduction for anybody who's just looking for information, resources, introductory maps. It's a great book. Yeah. Looking for dummies. For dummies and for smart people. Thank you, Jamie. I hope that answers your question. A $20 Binny's gift card to you. Everybody else can email their questions to comments at binnys.com or hit us up on social media at Binny's Bev on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. All right. David Guffy, Director of Winemaking at Hess. Thank you very much for joining us for a second time. I hope you had a good time. We did. As always, a pleasure. Thank you guys. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks for listening to another episode of Barrel to Bottle, The Binny's Podcast. Until next time, I'm Greg. I'm Pat. I'm Hillary. I was Barb. Apparently, I'm David Guffy. Keep tasting.