You're listening to another episode of Barrel to Bottle, The Binny's Podcast. I'm Greg. In the room with me is Kristen. Hey there. And Roger. Hey. Roger, this show is all about you. Ooh, delightful. It's a Roger show. It's a Roger show. Yeah, we're gonna talk about hops today. It's that time of year, the much anticipated hop harvest. Is it as backbreaking of work to harvest hops as it is grapes? No, not at all. It used to be, it actually used to be quite laborious. The hop vines, as they're known instead of vines, grow extremely tall. So pickers would have to use stilts. Oh, seriously? Yeah. That's pretty cool. So when they weren't harvesting hops, they were traveling around with circuses and what not. Fourth of July parade. Yeah, exactly. Massive coordination. No, now they pretty much just cut the entire vine down. The rhizome stays in the ground intact. They chop them off and they're just mechanically stripped from the vines. The key to hops, they're extremely perishable. So they come off of the vine and they're fluffy little cones. You have very little time before they start to get moldy. So they need to typically dry them, process them in some form or another. The most common thing was to just take the entire hop cone and dry it out. And then they would compress those into bales. So if you've ever visited a brewery, you don't see it that much anymore. There's only a handful of breweries that still really utilize whole cone hops. Some examples would be Sierra Nevada, Deschutes and Victory. And we are going to drink a Deschutes beer today. They're very bulky. A lot of these bales weigh 200 pounds. They have to be kept refrigerated even though they're processed. So a lot of breweries instead use hot pellets. So I don't know if you've ever visited a home brew store, brew beer. Hot pellets look kind of like an eraser head, but green, obviously. And you'll sometimes see brewers smashing them between their hands to smell and release the oils and the aromatic. So traditionally, a hot pellet was essentially just ground up hop cone that is then compressed. Reconstituted? Okay. Yeah. So in that hop cone, you get the different, or excuse me, in that hop pellet, you get all the parts of the hop cone, which is the bract, which is kind of the vegetal green material. On the outside? On the outside. And then if you were to crack open a whole hop, you would see these little pockets of yellow pollen. And those are the lupulin glands, and lupulin is where all the magic comes from. Is that where a lot of the moisture lives, and that's where the danger of mold lies as well? The whole cone itself, they're very fluffy. They're very moist. Moist plants, if you will. Okay. What's kind of cool now is that science is stepping in, because IPA continues to be the most popular beer style, IPA famously uses the most hops of any beer style. There's a particular type of IPA now that brewers use a lot of hops in the dry hopping process. Think of it as cooking, so there's a hot side to beer, and then there's a cold side to beer. So when you're brewing the beer and heat is applied, the lupulin in the hops would then have the iso-alpha acid conversion that ends up producing the bitterness that we equate with beer. So maltiness providing the sweetness, hops the bitterness. Brewers would then, towards the end of the boil, they would add hops to impart an aroma to the beer. Because it's right at the end, you don't have the chance for the hops to as much bitterness to get extracted, and also you don't volatilize all those good aromas, they don't boil off in the steam. You can also take hops, once the whole process is over with and you've cooled down your beer, you can then add hops to the beer, whether it's in the Whirlpool, if you're using one of those, or if it's just going into the fermenter, or it can just go into the conditioning tank, it's really up to the brewer. When you add them to say the conditioning tank, to let the hops steep in there for a while, before you package the product. This is after fermentation? Right. That is referred to as dry hopping. The last few years where IPA has kind of been thrown on its head, and we're starting to change all the rules and everything's different, they're adding hops into the fermenter, they're adding tons of hops, and we were talking probably double what you So what would that be in like a IBU, let's say normal versus this kind of new style, all bets are off. So that's the interesting thing is that IBUs were more of a measure of specifically of bitterness. So you're really seeing a lot of breweries drop the whole IBU measurement. Okay. Because of dry hopping, there is still some bitterness imparted. That's been a matter of debate that's a little too long and geeky of a thing to bring up now, but it imparts some bitterness but not a ton. And then the very, very new form of hops is lupulin powder. So arguably, if you use lupulin powder, there really should be almost zero bitterness. So the lupulin powder looks like how you'd think it would be. It's basically all yellow and you're using much, much less of it. It's its most concentrated form. So instead of bitterness, you're getting stuff like, like fruity flavors, like herbal flavors. What kind of, what kind of stuff? Exactly. Depends on the hop variety. So typically, especially with the hops that they're processing this way, hops like Citra, Mosaic, famously very floral, citrusy, tropical fruit. It's all about imparting these amazing aromas that you'd think that the beer was brewed with fruit. It's a kind of astonishing that it's just hops. From a brewing standpoint, this is a whole new world now because this solves their problem of if you're to dump a whole cone hops into beer, they're like little sponges, so they absorb tons of liquid. So from a standpoint of just there's only so many you can fit in whatever vessel you're using, but also you're wasting all that product if you're using those. And you can't press them to get the beer out because that would probably give a lot of hot oil. Yeah, typically that you might gain some astringency. Kind of think of it as like a tea bag type thing. Right, right. But it depends on the brewery. I mean, even if they try to squish it as much as possible, you're still losing product and it's bulking up. For what it's worth, hop oils have been around for a while. They've typically been seen as a dirty shortcut, but even that's changing now. There's some higher quality hop extracts that brewers are using, especially to kind of amp up if they do want some bitterness in the background of support. So hops are a little more complicated than you might imagine. There's lots of different ways. I have kind of a silly question. So from what you've explained, it sounds like wet versus dry, and in certain parts, steps of the process, then hops can be added when there's no alcohol, when it's just water and hot water as an extractor, or in presence of ethanol as a solvent. So when they use it that way, it doesn't pull the bitterness out. So you need water and heat for the bitterness components? Is that kind of the main difference? The conventional wisdom was that you would only get bitterness if it was on the hot side, but exactly for the reasons you're saying, it pulls a little bit out of there, which is some of the appeal of the powder, because the powder wouldn't, and you wouldn't be using the powder on the hot side. You'd be using it, you know. On the cold side, okay. You'd be putting it in. Typically, one of the most common ways to incorporate this is in a whirlpool. A whirlpool does what it sounds like. Right. Big centrifuge that's a way to... Yeah. There are beers this time of year which are referred to as wet hopped IPAs. Sometimes people refer to them as fresh hops, so it's a little less confusing. But the idea being that if you are lucky enough to have a brewery right next to the hop farms, which the majority of hops are grown out in the Pacific Northwest, especially in the Yakima Valley on Washington, but Oregon and Idaho, they will pick the hops and get them as fast as humanly possible right to the brewery. It's not uncommon for breweries to actually use hops the same day that they were picked this time of year. Luckily, we're actually starting to see Midwestern breweries are getting fresh hops that were grown in the Midwest. Hops grown in the Midwest actually isn't a new thing. It's a revival of sorts. Wisconsin actually grew some of the, they were a very highly productive hop growing region in the past before Prohibition. They of course though were growing European more traditional varieties of hops, not necessarily the type of Nuvo hop breeds that everybody's into now. So that's kind of problematic because there's not quite some of the hop breeding programs. A lot of them are on Oregon and a lot of that's proprietary. So people that are growing hops in the Midwest still have a somewhat limited number that they can choose from. But I'm curious to see if you're going to see some of the universities in the Midwest because there's a little more money here and reason to might start actually breeding hops unique to the Midwest. Cool. Which would be cool. So we're going to try a beer today that uses some Michigan grown Midwest hops as well. Does hops act as an antioxidant or a preservative at all? So the more you use, the longer the beer might last on the shelf? Absolutely. That is one of the key things for this whole India Pale Ale style, where it gets its name from. When the British Empire started to ship beer out to the different colonial outposts, they would, especially with India, have to travel all the way around the Horn of Africa to get there. So the beer that they were shipping there in the holes of ships at the time would spoil by the time that it reached India. So it would be sour. So by, they started to figure out that if they brewed a beer that was stronger and higher in alcohol, the higher alcohol was a preservative. But also, like you said, hops have anti-microbial properties very famously, so that preserve the beer. It stops it from oxidizing. Right. Cool. This again gets into the minutia of science, but the preservative value is definitely higher when they're used during the boil, and it's more of the traditional use of hops as opposed to if you're just putting them in dry hopping. The beer is more fragile with some of these dry hopped beers. So it sounds like there's much more of an extraction when they do it in the front end, and you taste it in the bitterness, and that in part is going to be part of the protection. So let's taste our first beer here. I wanted to give you guys a base point in which to talk about how hops are used, how it's changed over time. This is Two Hearted Ale from Bell's, which is one of the most iconic American IPAs. So this is a single hop IPA. At the time, there weren't a ton of hops to choose from when this came out, nothing like today at least. This uses all centennial hops. The reason this is so good is because there's a bunch of malt to support the hop, and it was totally balanced and still really hoppy. Yep. Oh, it's so good. The Spear Rocks. Yeah. It's been around for a long time. They've been making this for what, over 30 years maybe? Yeah, yeah. Like since the late 80s, early mid 90s. Yeah, the year is escaping me. I think it was early 90s. Okay. Like Greg said, malt is here. You can see it both in the color, a little darker, a light amber color to it, and also there's some bitterness in the finish. So go ahead and try the next beer. This is also a single hop IPA. However, it's using a much different hop. Hemp beer. Hemp beer, yeah. It definitely has that, what is referred to as dank. It's got a dankness to it. This is with mosaic hops. There's also like a lemon pepper quality to this beer. So lighter in color, lighter in body. This is also made with oats and wheat. I was gonna ask because it's creamy. Yeah. And that comes from wheat sometimes. Wheat and oats, for sure. Those also famously can impart some haze to it. So they're calling this a hazy IPA. This is pretty clear considering how they can be now. And how it has a bitterness to it. They could come out looking like a glass of orange juice. Sometimes. Straight up, for sure. A lot of the bigger breweries, not to say this is from SweetWater, and they're not big, big by any means, but they're a craft veteran. And when some of the craft veterans try to brew this style, I think sometimes they can't go full bore. Yeah, they have to. They just can't help themselves but clean it up a little. They look at the current trend of some of these, what's referred to as hazy IPAs as just such sloppy brewing that sometimes they end up being pretty clear. So the idea being what you're going to notice from that, like, you perceptively notice the mouthfeel is different, is lighter in body and the bitterness. Oh, the aromatic compounds are completely different. Aromatics are totally different, and the bitterness. So the next one we have here is another single hop. This is with Citra, which I wanted to have you guys taste. I know we've tasted in the past. It's one of the most popular hops out there. And this one, especially in the Midwest, I think we have a love of Citra because of basically one beer, probably our most requested beer of all time. Zombie Dust. There you go. You guys got that CD? Three Floyd Zombie Dust is famously a Citra hopped pale ale. And this one is a Citra hopped, I love it. It's from Lagunitas and Lagunitas refuses almost always to use beer style titles. They just think they call things like big Mondo Red Ales and super mega cataclysmic beer. Like this is basically a double IPA. What do they call it? Super Cluster Ale. Super Cluster. So if you look at it again, very light in color, but a little darker than the SweetWater. But the aroma on this beer is just pretty incredible. It's a beautiful golden color. This beer too I think is a nice example of that. This is very, and the last one to some degree. The mosaic one from SweetWater is a touch cloudy. This is basically clear, yet it's still super fruity and aromatic. So what people like about these new style of IPA that are typically referred to as hazy IPA's or New England style, heavily dry hopped, is how fruity they are and how they're not as bitter. They have these great aromas and fruitiness in the palate. It's quite pithy, because you have that bitter component, so it's kind of like the pith, like the grapefruit pith. No, very much reminiscent of a grapefruit. At the beer circus, the last one, this was the beer de jour. This was the beer, man. I was right there with, yeah. Six of these would be, oh yeah, you were. I remember now. Because what we were talking about is how dangerously drinkable this beer is. This beer is 8% alcohol. It does not taste like it at all. Better yet, it has that typical Lagunitas value. We were selling six packs of this right now. It just came out in cans for $9.99. It's in a 12 pack. You can get a 12 pack of this. You can. And it's like $18.99, something like that. Yeah, you save even more with the 12 pack. So take a pour of our next one here. This one is from Deschutes. This one is called Chasin Freshies, and it is a annual offering that comes out each hop harvest. Talk about a dank smelling beer. Just smell it. Smell it. I really like the label. Hold on, okay, well. Ooh, you know. That's got a little toasty quality to it. Sure. I like this. This is a new strain of hops called Strata Hops. So we have another single hop. This one checks three different boxes. This is a whole cone beer. One of the few breweries that still does that. It's single hop Strata, and it's a wet hop beer, or fresh hop. So these are freshly harvested Strata Hops. It's a new hop from Oregon, designed at the Oregon University, whose famously designs some of the best hops out there. And you might say it's a joint venture between Deschutes and the University of Oregon. Right, right. So this, if you haven't picked up on it, folks, this hop was specifically designed to be cannabis like without being caddy, which some hops that are referred to as very dank or cannabis like are caddy, so they have kind of a cat pee aroma, There is a Venice quality to this a little bit, because it's got a bit of a green, like a soft green aroma, like peas, like snow peas, kind of. But it's very, very toasty. It has a good fruit. I don't know what marijuana smells like, so I... Don't laugh so heartily. So if you've been to a concert, have you ever been in the art teacher's office? Yeah. Have you been out of your house? Right. Not only... Okay, so it's really hempy on the nose, but it's super fruity on the palate. Yeah. It's got a lemony character to it that's really neat. We brought these guys into Chicago probably like six or eight years ago, eight years ago now, and this was a pretty lauded release every year for a while. And then I kind of forgot about it. It kind of felt rote or obligatory or something. But this is really opening my eyes. I got to start paying attention to Deschutes again and to the Chasin Freshies series. Everybody should. They get overlooked, unfortunately. Everything nowadays is local and nano. And Deschutes, yes, they're brewing a good amount of beer, but they're still brewing fantastic beer, especially their fresh hop offerings. So they were doing this one and then another in Bomber. Are they still doing two? This originally was in Bomber. And then there was Hop Trip, which might have been in Bomber as well. And then Fresh Squeezed was like... Fresh Squeezed was Bomber too. All that stuff has transitioned from Bomber to Six Packs. Is Fresh Squeezed year-round? Yes, Fresh Squeezed is year-round now. They also have kind of a New England bent on Fresh Squeezed now called Juicy Haze. It's like New England beer, Mad Libs. Everything sounds the same. I love this beer. Yeah, and look how brilliantly it sits in the glass. Yeah. I mean, super aromatic, super juicy. Good job, Deschutes. Right. I mean, seriously, this is stellar. I'm not a beer drinker, really. Although, this is good for me. There hasn't been a dog in the bunch so far. No. This has a little bit of a sherryed quality to it. This is real nice complexity. The company that's hop breeding is a really interesting game. So a lot of time and effort goes into breeding hops. Hops, if you're not familiar, they're the rhizomes, the root stock of the plant, needs to essentially grow for a minimum of three years, more often seven to 10, before it fully is producing the type of hops that you'd be ready to go to market with. So we're talking about decade long endeavors to try to design new types of hops. Very similar to wine. Very similar to wine, yeah. We're gonna go to another wet hop one here. This is from Founder's. It's their Harvest Ale. This is one of the first Harvest Ale's available on the market. Sometimes, especially in the Midwest, we just didn't see them. A lot of the time, they went straight to draft. It would be a thing that you would go visit a brewery to drink. Harvest Ale, because of the boost lately of hop growing in Michigan, these are all Michigan hops, the alternative is that breweries can pay for overnighting hops. Would they like throw them on a plane and ship them to Chicago? Yep, that was how they would have to do it in the past pretty much. Kind of like that lobster flown in from Maine, lobster graham, or burrata flown in from Italy. From Naples, yeah. Napoli. That's decent. Napoli. What's neat on this and what helps you grasp the idea of what hops and harvests ales, why people like them so much, they unfortunately don't tell us what they're using in here, but if I had to guess, there's only so many hops that grow well in the Midwest as of right now. So more often than not, it's some of the classics, Centennial and Citra especially. And I bet this is with one or both of those. And it's expressing some complexity and freshness that you might not find in a whole cone or a pellet of either of those. Okay. So there I think is the benefit of why these were so popular, especially in the past, was that with the reduced palette to work with, brewers could really showcase something special when they used hops this fresh. So this has some nice piney-ness to it, some citra to it, citrus to it. Those were the two main flavor profiles that we were talking about with American Hops back in the day. That's like cascaded tends to be piney and citra tends to be fruity. This is pretty reserved though. Yeah. There's less herbal. I think it's pretty low-lying and sweet. I like the way the sweet plays in the mid-palate. This is good beer. It definitely has some malt character too that's nice, like what you're picking up on is a little bit of malt complexity to it too that adds a different component. There's kind of a nice melon character to this. It's neat too. What's nice is it's a little bit leaner, a little bit fresher. It's not so heavy-handed. All right, last but not least, we have a local favorite, a beer from Half Acre. Half Acre, we love you. We do. We love Half Acre. Half Acre consistently puts out good beer, which in today's day and age is not an easy thing to do. With everyone demanding a new beer name, label, gotta collect them all, this is called Half Acre Now and Then. It's our latest release from them. This is going after the Nuvo Dry Hopped, heavily dry hopped, double dry hopped. If you ever see DDH next to a beer, that's what it's standing for, is that they're using these ludicrous amounts of hops when they dry hop it. The other unique thing about this, in the current trend away from bitterness, brewers are actually starting to add lactose to beers, which I have to say most of the time, I'm not a fan of the result of that, but Half Acre, I'm not surprised because they know how to brew really old school IPAs. They used the restraint here and just added a touch of sweetness to balance out bitterness. It's trying to play with the new guys, it's slightly hazy, but not much. They can't help themselves but make good beer. Again, who cares if it's super hazy, it's all about what it smells and tastes like. Well, it tastes like bitterness, a little bit of bitterness and a lot of papaya, and then there's the sweet quality underneath. I agree, there is a big papaya note to it. So this is brewed with some interesting stuff. It's an English Ale yeast, which is pretty common for IPA's. Malt Wise Two Row, common Golden Promise. There's a little Vienna in there, which is interesting. That's going to have a little more caramel character to it. Oats, which you said before, helps with the creaminess. It uses those new Cryo Hops we talked about. So Cryo Powder from a hop that used to be called Equinox, but was, or Equinox, but they got sued. So now it's called Equinox. I really like that hop. It was a cross made in 2001 with Warrior in a wild variety. It was released in 2014, so 13 years of development. Lagunitas has brewed some beers with it. I think it imparts some really interesting citrus character that's not orangey. It's more like lemon lime, and it has some nice herbal characteristics to it. There's almost a eucalyptus note. So that, to me, is one of the keys to this flavor profile. And then it also has some citra power. Everybody loves citra. Simcoe's in there, which I'm always weary of, because I taste that as the caddy, but I don't pick up on any, so I'm glad. Must be in small amounts. It's not as bad as Nelson's Soften. Really? You think that? So that's the really neat thing about pallets is everybody's different. I love that hop, and I don't get any caddiness from it. Seriously? Wow. Maybe we've just had some different examples. Yeah, that could be it for sure. And at different levels of freshness. That's a very coveted hop, and it's from New Zealand. So a lot of people end up with old stuff that someone else had extra, and it took a long time to get where it was going. And then rounding it out, there's a few Comet hops in there, and it's a kind of neat hop. You don't see that too often. That's a lot of stuff going in here. Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of neat because I would say in general, the trend right now is to sprinkle in a ton of different hops, which is why I thought it was really cool to pour some of the single hop ones and show you how great a single hop can be, I think this Half Acre compared to the standards like Double Daisy Cutter and Galactic Double Daisy Cutter, way less bitter, as much malt, and then more sweetness and more fruit quality. Right. Yeah. But that's really cool. Yeah, they described it, I think, as a fruit cocktail, like the little cups. And I see that, but in a good way. With like one of those little cherries. Yeah, right, right. But it's true, you do get like a pear quality, you get some of that papaya, like you said, a peachiness. I love this beer. This is great. Really do. It's cool that these are, all those flavors are just from hops. That is kind of mind-blowing. Well, I see why they use the lactose to round it out. I think it really does counterbalance a lot of that perceived bitterness. If you don't develop your palate drinking bitter beer, I get why these styles are so popular, because you have to get used to bitterness. It's not just something you like inherently. In fact, it's nature's way of saying, don't eat or drink this. Right. But I also like peppers, hot stuff. Same deal, right? It's fun. I mean, you get acclimated to it and develop a taste for it pretty quickly. I would like a little bit of bitterness, but I still, to play out devil's advocate, understand why this is happening. Doesn't mean you like it. Yeah. But Half Acre and some other people are showing that you by no means can write off this style as just, oh, it's a fad or none of them are good. There's plenty of them that are quite delicious, but unfortunately, there's also many that aren't really worth pursuing. Makes sense. So there we go. Here we go. Hop, let, hop, fresh, hop. If you could give an estimate, how many beers do we carry at Binny's? Oh boy. That's a tough question. I don't know off the top of my head, but I can tell you that we've had, what, 2,000 new beers since the beginning of the year. We don't have that at every store, which is a good thing. I mean, we really try to keep this as fresh as possible. And if something works in one store, but it doesn't in another, you know, it's very... You don't force it. We try to curate our beer selection. We taste a lot of bad, overpriced beer, so you don't have to. We do. I pour a lot of beer down the drain. It's astonishing, the kind of beer that's coming in, unfortunately. Get your sh** together, people. This is up to you, too, the consumer. Start asking your brewery's questions. Ask them if they have a lab at their brewery. Yeah. It's one of my soapbox moments. Ask your brewery if they know what a DOD meter is. Do they measure oxygen levels in their beer? So dry hop, wet hop, fresh hop, everything hop right here. As I talk about in the beer buzz now, saying you like IPA, which kind? I mean IPA has expanded into such a huge category that there's a lot of jargon that you have to wrap your mind around. So hopefully this helped a little bit. If you'd like to write in to win a $20 gift card, reach us at Binny's Bev on Twitter, comments at binnys.com, Facebook, The Gram, whatever you want. We're going to find you if you find us. You can call Greg directly at 312. Settle down. Our question this time, we actually, I like this question because it's about us and not something else. So our question this time comes from at Young Skunk, which is great. The question is, what are your favorite beer styles? Pilsner. Mike Drop. Wow. I'd like to say that I appreciate everything, but I don't. That's a lie. It's totally a lie. I like IPA, Roger. Oh man. This is too many. I mean, I do almost like everything. I used to always say Belgian quads, which are awesome as far as how complex they are, but they're so rich and heavy. You can't really drink much of that, but the complexity of a good Belgian quad, when done right, is incredible. I used to really like Doppelbock's strangely when I was just getting into beer. That was what I was really interested in. And again, I think that was just for the different layers of flavor. That's the Roger version of a beginner beer. Yeah, exactly. I mean, when you taste a Doppelbock and you realize, wow, there's nothing in here but malt and hops and water and all the different crazy fruit, chocolate flavors in there. Bananas and gloves. The more beer that I've tried, probably the most divisive style, the style that can either be absolutely beautiful or absolutely garbage is a Cezanne. Agreed. Cezannes, when they are good, are ethereal. Usually a lot of the better ones are barrel aged. They'll take quite some time and effort. Then those kind are usually less is more. They are not spiced. They are just brewed with the right kind of mouthfeel, attenuation. They get some complexity from the yeast strains. And when they are bad, they taste like feet. And soap and you name it. Oh my God. They are so overspiced. Coriander bombs, not well attenuated. So they are sickly sweet. If they use wild yeast, yeah, they could taste like feet, body odor. I mean, it can be an absolute mess. Huh. So about favorite. A really good Cezanne is beautiful, but to say I like Cezanne comes with this long caveat. Right. What's your favorite cheap mass produced beer? Mine is High Life in a Bottle. Slash Hams. I do like, even though Brophy likes it. Yeah. I love hams, man. It's good. It depends on how cheap is cheap. If you mean real, real budget, budget, it's hams. Yeah. Okay. I mean, that was what I drank in college. And I think of her macro beer, it has that sweetness on the finish, and it lacks that weird, kind of bitter, medicinal kind of taste that a lot of macros have. So it would be hams. But there's also a lot of good imports in 12 packs that people are ignoring. If you just want to drink like beer, beer, that aren't that expensive, that I think more people should, you know, up-buy them. You talking about Becks? What are you talking about? Not Becks, but like Warsteiner, Veltens, Kronbacher, traditional German Pilsners that are really well made, dry, clean. Delicious. I like it. The cool thing about beer that a lot of people don't appreciate enough in this, this is what kind of depresses me about the current outlook on beer is that there are so many styles and people are getting too preoccupied right now with just a handful. All the talk is about IPAs, stouts and sours. I mean, and there's different within those categories, but I really wish people would broaden their horizons a little and try some of the other classic styles be they import or American. I mean, a really nice brown ale, I've joked about it before, it can be a beautiful thing and all of us, you know, people just write it off like, it's pretty good for a brown ale. I love that when I go to a beer festival, then people no longer are like, oh, you got to try our amber ale. They know what's up. They know that's not why I'm at their table. I mean, there's only so much you can do with some of these styles, and if you completely write off, it's almost like malt is a dirty word, except for stouts. I disagree. I disagree, I think that the best beers, a lot of examples at the table today, they're hoppy, but they're malty too, and it's the guys who are using malt effectively to balance out everything else that make the best beer. Although malt-centric beers are pretty late. If you look at the color, I mean, if we were to show you the different spectrum of malts as far as how much they're roasted and what color, we didn't get too far today, is my point. Fair enough. There might be some residual, you know, they might not have completely fermented these out, but there's still a lot of pretty light malts. So I don't know. Go try a Doppelbach. No. Call me in the morning. Go to go to our make your own six pack and buy beers that aren't an IPA, a sour or a stout. Thank you, Young Skunk, for the question. Hope that that thank you for asking about us, man. That's really what I want to say. That's pretty cool. Really appreciate that. So hope you spend your $20 wisely. If you want to let us know how you spent it, we're kind of happy to know. Let us know what you bought. Tell us at comments at binnys.com or hit us on social at Binny's Bev, on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, everybody else. Send your questions for a chance at $20 Binny's gift card. Until next time. Yeah. That's that. This was a great podcast. I like IPA and this was a good podcast for me. So thank you, Roger. Yeah. Bringing the pleasure. Yes. Thanks so much. All right, folks. Until next time. I'm Kristen. I'm Greg. And I'm Roger. Keep tasting. Two Heart is a classic. This SweetWater beer is just called Single Hot Mosaic as a new experimental beer from them. But ironically, I think it has the exact same fish is on both beers. That's pretty bizarre. It's a trout on both, right? I honestly don't think these are the same. They look similar. They look both like trouts of some kind. Anyway, that's not important, but the idea here- Yeah, that's a trout. That's a trout.