Welcome to Rog & Pat's Excellent Wine Adventure. I'm Pat S. Preston Esquire, joined by my friend Rog Theodore Logan. Good to be here, Pat. This is not gonna be a bogus journey. This is indeed an excellent adventure. I hope you guys can keep your calm and be excellent to each other throughout this episode. So this seems pretty bogus to me already. This started a few months ago when Rog and I were really giving Alicia the business about how she hates our podcast and won't contribute to it anymore. So we took it upon ourselves to do a wine episode. The way I pitched this, we both get around to a lot of stores, Binny's doing education stuff and that kind of thing, events. And the way I pitched this was that we have this really kind of crazy resource of just intensely knowledgeable wine people in our stores. The best in the business. The best in the business, with arguably the biggest selection in the business. So anybody could walk into a Binny's and totally stumble upon some hidden gem Pinot Noir or some kind of unsung Barbaresco. I wanted wines specifically for my selections of this episode that you were really only gonna find if you engaged with these knowledgeable, passionate staff members we have. And so I went to four different stores and talked to the wine manager of four different stores and I said, what is something that like is really getting you excited? And this is like, this is just cool. It could be weird. It could be off the beaten path. It could be, you know, allocated or something. However, what is something that really is, that in your mind kind of makes a Binny's a Binny's as far as like some cool punches above its weight, wine selection, something you're not gonna find at a grocery store or a club store or something like that. And that's where these wines came from. And now you're gonna subject us to them. Well, you're, no, I'm gonna make you tell me all about them because I didn't ask for additional info from these people at all. And I just pulled the wines and brought them here and you're gonna have to tell us what's up. It gave us no opportunity to research. Correct. That's okay. I approach it from the perspective of the shopper that walks into the store, has a very basic, limited knowledge of wine, because that is the case with me. I know more than I probably should about spirits, whiskey, cigars, the whole liquor department, but wine for the most part has been something that I haven't explored in my many years at Binny's, short of the fortified category. I've probably purchased more Madeira than anything else, but I do enjoy white wine on occasion, typically more than red wine. So at the stores that I visited, I was talking to staff, basically just giving them that brief rundown where I'm coming from. And I said, you know, if I buy white wine, like a lot of people, I tend to just sort of go back to familiar things. And I look for New Zealand Sauvignon. It's just kind of tropical. It's something that I know I like. It tastes like hops. Yeah, so being in the beer world where everybody's obsessed with new hop varietals, there's literally a variety called Nelson Sauvin. And I love that. It's probably my favorite hop. I wanted to try to branch out from Sauvignon Blanc because that's all I really buy. My pitch was essentially, hey, this is what I like. That's kind of my flavor profile. What's a white that you think I might enjoy? I also do like Rieslings. We've talked about this in the podcast before, just as long as they on Zuka Valsa. Zuka Valsa. So one of my wines today is a Riesling, but the rest is kind of all just interesting stuff that I'm very curious to try. So again, we have the best people in the business, and this is kind of what they're faced with a lot of the times as maybe a very limited perspective of what somebody is looking for, but then they have to work the magic and find something interesting So Roger says all that in spite of the fact that I've been talking his ear off about wine for the last 15 years. I mean, I'm not a total new, but yeah, again, maybe it's that I'm in the presence of people like you or it's like, I just always defer because I know you know everything about it. Well, and that's why it's not just Roger and I here today. We collected these wines, but we want you guys to tell us a little more about them. So who else is here? Well, I'm Chris. I do wine. And I'm Ray. I also do wine. Welcome back, Ray. Some people call him Zucca Ray. Zucca Ray. No, I'm homeless Ray at the... Oh no. Yeah, that's true. We could call you RSR, residual sugar Ray. No, not that sweet. No one's calling me sweet. I don't know, we got a Riesling. Before we talk about this wine though, I do have to commend Ray on his Henry Weinhardt's blue bore red shirt that he's wearing to work today. A beer near and dear to my heart as a young lad in the Pacific Northwest. So this is only cements your place on this podcast. This is truly vintage alcohol clothing. I've had this probably a good 20 years. Yes, dearly departed like many other Northwest breweries. Yes, all right. But more importantly about this wine, we've got one of Roger's wines first. So Roger and I each brought four wines today. We're gonna go through them. Let's talk about them. These are cool things that you can get when you engage with the staff at a Binny's near you. Chris, what's this first one? So ironically, Roger wants to branch out from Sauvignon Blanc, but we're starting off with Sauvignon Blanc. But not from New Zealand. No, this is Paul Prieur et Phi Sancerre. So this is 100% Sauvignon Blanc from the Loire Valley, what they call the central vineyards, relatively far inland closer to the headwaters as opposed to something like Muscadet region. And it's grown usually on limestone soils. You get the Terre Blanche. Is that this one? Is that this one? Yeah, that's the one. And it's probably the iconic Sauvignon Blanc in the world. People... Really? Yeah. This is a nice one, $32.99. Not an unusual price point for Sancerre these days, but since Sauvignon Blanc is absolutely on fire, not only in New Zealand, but throughout the rest of the world, many people would say Sancerre is the best spot to grow Sauvignon Blanc, kind of the spiritual home. It is a Bordeaux varietal, however, and it's one of the parents of Cabernet Sauvignon. Who remembers that quiz? Cabernet Sauvignon Blanc had a baby and it was called Cabernet Sauvignon. This is nice. I appreciate that it's a little rounder and fuller in body and not as just sharp and linear as a lot of New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc. I think that's what you're finding in Sancerre more these days. Traditionally, they're minerally very nervous acidity, very intense citrus, and sometimes veering into peachy fruit. But in recent years, I've noticed Sancerre kind of leaning riper, plumper, rounder. A result of climate warming, no doubt. For sure. This is a 22 very warm vintage and the wine definitely reflects that. This is from a really cool importer, Becky Wasserman, who was one of the first Americans to go over to France and actually export wine back to the States. She kind of made her bones in Burgundy and then kind of spread throughout France and other parts of Europe. But she really did become one of the foremost experts in Burgundy and this is part of her portfolio. Yeah, for sure. I mean, some quirky stuff, but definitely an iconic European portfolio in the States. What's the ABV on this? We have it listed as 13 in the system. I think it says 13. That's pretty typical for Sancerre. Yeah, 13%. Rog, who recommended this to you from what store? Willowbrook, the wine manager over there, Dave. Dave at Willowbrook. Dave's not here. Dave's not here, man. So yeah, just iconic Sauvignon Blanc and Sancerre has been on fire lately. Absolutely on fire. Everybody wants it. Great with fish of all kinds. And I think this is for someone who likes New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc. This is a good transition if you did want to try a Sancerre from a very high quality producer. So I think Dave did a really nice job here in taking the information you gave him and recommending something that you would enjoy. And hopefully you are enjoying it. Yeah, this is great. Go see Dave at Willowbrook. It's interesting. I think you nailed it with that fuller, rounder mouth feel. It's definitely got that. Sauvignon Blanc seems to be very adaptable. Some grapes don't like anywhere but their native home. But Sauvignon Blanc has grown all over the world. Italy, all over France. We talked about that recently with Nebiolo. Nebiolo, yeah. Hardly anyone has had any success outside of the Piedmont region with Nebiolo, with some exceptions. But Sauvignon Blanc, you know, Washington, Oregon, you know, now, California, Chile, everywhere. I also really like Slovenia in Sauvignon Blanc. Really? Yeah. So, Slovenia abuts northern Italy and you see some crossover there and up in that region you see Sauvignon Blanc in both Italy and Slovenia. Is that one of the really old European wine growing regions? Yeah, for sure. Then they're also, we've talked about their oak before too, right? The Slovenian oak. Oh yeah, Slovenian oak is commonly used. It's a cheaper alternative to French oak for sure. Pat, you had some, didn't you have some whisky aged in Slovenian oak recently? We've had some Amari aged in Slovenian oak. Braulio Amaro is partially aged in Slovenian oak. I mean, the very- Yeah, I was going to say, you're mentioning Amaro's. It's very commonly used for large boaties in the Piedmont where they're not looking for any real oak influence, but they want there is just a large semi-permeable cast. Yo, what is this next wine and why is it salty? So this is Bruno Giacosa. We actually tasted Bruno Giacosa's Nebiolo one. Oh, OK. And Rog, did you do that on purpose? No. So the next one's from Dave as well. And this is a really interesting tale. This is Arneis from the Roero region. This is speaking of the Piedmont and Arneis is Arneis is a very obscure grape variety that's almost exclusive to Piedmont and was basically on the verge of extinction until Giacosa and the Corrado family of Vietti really revived it starting in the late 60s. Still pretty small plantings. Really interesting wine. It's a traditional wine in the area. It's usually light and floral and almondy and crisp. This is awesome. It's got some green apple character to it. This is cool. It does kind of finish salty though. I don't pick up salty so much as there's definitely some acidity here. And it's kind of a dare I evoke one of my favorite fruits. Do it. Get the horn ready, Jim. Gooseberry. That tart and tangy green gooseberry that I'm so in love with, which again is one of those token characteristics to describe Sauv Blanc. Now, did someone recommend this wine because you said you liked aromatic whites? I mean, this has aromatics just off the charts. So for people who like dry Riesling or even slightly off dry Riesling, the aromatics can compare favorably to any kind of really fragrant white. Right. Classically look for those almost floral, bitter almond notes. You'll see this in reviews all the time, but I think it's misread as bitter tasting almond. But a bitter almond is actually a kind of almond that's high in cyanide, but it's what they make almond extract out of. And if you ever smell... Would you say that they're to die for? Yes, they are. But if you ever smell almond extract, it's really super hyper fragrant, right? And that's what you're looking for is that lifted almondy aromatic, not a bitter flavor per se. The super interesting thing about this is that I was in a tasting with a couple of people from a really small project called Limited Edition. That's A-D-D-I-T-I-O-N, not edition, in Oregon. And I was talking to a master of wine, Bree Stock, this morning, and she brought in an Arneis grown in Oregon. No way. And it was fascinating. I mean, this is not very normal. The thing that kind of blew me away about it is it had everything I expected from Arneis, but amplified. It had richer body, deeper core of fruit, and the bitter almond note had almost become marzipanish. And I asked her, is there a little residual sugar in there? And she said, yeah, just a hint. And it just kind of supported that richer fruit. Fascinating wine. Is this something we could expect in a cooler climate? Yeah. Is that where those results point? So they have Oregon, cool climate, although, you know, again, global warming, lots of hot years lately. Yeah. But her whole thing is we've got to roll with the punches. And just like Bordeaux has added varietals, very, very conservative, Bordeaux has added new varietals that you can now experiment with. Because of global warming, they're looking at the fact that they're hanging their hat almost entirely on Pinot Noir, of course, Pinot Gris, a little Chardonnay. But she's growing Gruner-Weltliner, Arneis, Gamay, a bunch of stuff. Or she's not growing it necessarily, but she's sourcing it from small plots that. And the crazy thing was her Arneis is sourced from 40 year old vines, un-grafted, that were brought over from the Piedmont. All that time ago, somebody had some weird foresight. Anyway, really weird. Wow, 40 year old Arneis in Oregon. Yeah. Hmm. The aroma on this wine is breathtaking. I mean, I've literally just been sitting here like I had a bouquet of flowers and I just keep going back to it again and again. Sign of a great wine. And I think, you know, when we had the Nebbiolo on the previous podcast, we kind of pounded at home that Bruno Giacosa, just iconic producer in the Piedmont. One of the true greats run by his daughter, Bruna now. Anything else to say about that, Ray? I would really be curious to know who had planted Arneis in Oregon 40 years ago. The weird thing about Oregon is a lot of producers are either hanging their hats on Chardonnay, which there's really high quality Chardonnay is coming out of the Willamette right now. And then you have this ABC crowd, which is anything but Chardonnay and they're looking to other cool climate varietals like what you find in the Piedmont or Austria or Germany. I'm surprised more people haven't actually just tried Riesling. I don't know why. So there's some Riesling in Oregon and there's some really traditional plantings, speaking of Zuckerwasser, Roger. Fairly large amount of Muller Turgau planted early on. I could have told you an hour ago who brought that over and planted it, but it has just flown out of my wine. Hey, your wine. Out of my mind. She was also Brie Stock. She's, I don't know if I mentioned this, master of wine, which is pretty incredible. She's also hanging her hat pretty heavily on Northeast Spanish varietals like Alberinho and Mencia in Oregon. So, weird. Did we mention the price of this one, bro? Like 35 bucks maybe? No. Hang on, let me look it up again. The other thing I'll say about Arneis is for someone that... 32.99, Roger... . that likes Pinot Grigio and wants to explore a little bit more in Italian white and get something that's, you know, got a little more going on than your average Pinot Grigio, great choice for an alternative and, you know, could definitely be a porch For sure. I mean, Italy has the reputation for relatively vast amounts of relatively neutral, crisp, dry white, but this is a wine of real character. So up next, first one that one of the guys gave me. This is a recommendation from wine manager Andrew out at the Rockford store. When I was the general manager at the St. Charles, old St. Charles store like 13 years ago, Andrew was the wine manager there, and he is so full of knowledge. I think he won the blind tasting at our company holiday party like three years in a row or something at the time. Yeah, he's got a sharp palate. He really knows his stuff. This he recommended. I told him what I was looking, the type of thing I was looking for, and immediately just walked right over to this. This is from Kermit Litch Imports. It's an Italian white from, I think, Piedmont. Liguria right next door. Okay, right next door. Liguria is this kind of like the little armpit, kind of narrow curve in Italy where like a little bit north of Tuscany, west of Piedmont, and it hugs the coast. And this is a Mataosu? Did I say that right? Asu, Mataasu? Mataasu, yeah. So that's the grape variety. It's a local, regional grape variety. Hardly anybody grows it. Leave it to Kermit Lynch to sniff this out, of course. And this is a land where in whites, your Vermintino tends to dominate. Yeah. But there are also some other oddball things like Urbaluche, Decaluso. I like the sound of that. Yeah. So interesting area and the home of Pesto alla Genovese. So I've got Kermit Lynch's website pulled up here. There's generally no malelectic fermentation. Spends four months on the lees. So gets a little softness in body from that, right? Gains a little creaminess to it. They are claiming that this is potentially the only vineyard left of this. That is quite possible. Supposedly three, but according to the family behind this, the other two are actually a different varietal. Oh, yeah. There's always disputes like that. What are they? What are they? What are the others? They say the other ones are like, he got to or something. Do they say they do? Let me find it, though. I'd say one of the leave it to Kermit to come up with this kind of bottling because he's really the guy that put southern French wines on the map. And, you know, this is right next door. So, you know, if you were going to go to Italy, it'd be a really great trip from, say, Provence over to Italy. Yeah, I mean, definitely. The native Mata Asu dominated the vineyards of the Verigoti in the 19th century, but its delicate vegetative balance provoked most wine growers to rip out the vines in favor of less finicky grapes. Why is it so provocative? Today, only three producers have wines labeled Mata Asu, and the Rufinos assure us that the other two are actually Lumicina. Oh, Lumicina. Well, they're lying. How could they do this to us? Yeah, really interesting wine for sure. And yeah, I mean, Kermit Lynch literally put Bandol on the map in the States and so many other things. Do you think this one has any salinity to it? Because this one does to me. I think this one has a bit racier acidity. I could see there being a bit of a salinity, like a little tang. What would we be getting that from? Well, interestingly enough, this is right along the sea. So it could actually be from there. Seaside influence. This is $22.99. Not at a lot of Binny's, but this is the kind of thing you get when you engage a knowledgeable wine manager. Big shock, Rockford sells more of it than like any other store combined. Knowing Andrew, he sells more of this than anyone else in the state of Illinois. Or perhaps the country, save for Kermit himself. I've in the past geeked out on my antique heirloom apple varieties. This reminds me of some of the old timey, like, bitter sharp apples. Yeah, like a cider apple. Yeah, more like a cider apple. I totally get that. You're Ash Mead's Colonel. Yeah. I salute the Ash Mead's Colonel. I like this wine a lot. This is fun. Yeah, it's good. It's nice for this time of year, too. I mean, yeah, fish dishes, something like that. Yeah, I was going to make time sippers. I was mentioning that, you know, Genoa is in Liguria and their famous dish is pesto made with basil. And a wine like this is is classic with pasta dish with pesto or something like a fish dish that is, you know, the fillet is rubbed in pesto or something because of that herbaceousness. I think there's that salinic and herbaceous quality of this wine really would play off that nicely. And of course oysters. Yeah. All right, I have another one of mine going around next. Another white wine. Our wine managers love white wine. They're really testing us here. This is only in a couple of stores. Jim had to go to Skokie and pick it up this morning. And this is it's a white from Cyprus called Xinisteri. Yep, that's the great variety. So the most widely planted white on Cyprus. I don't know that the Turkish side has as much planted. Let's not spark that ancient rivalry. Yeah, Cyprus Island in the Mediterranean. I salute that this label is like no English. Yeah, they don't make any real compromises for the American market. Tough luck. Yeah. There's a QR code. Maybe that could see some translated information. Their website has English. Tsiakkas, is that the name of the winery here? Yes, that looks correct. Yeah, real oddball. Again, bright, tangy acidity on the finish. Really crisp. Cyndi's wine manager, Downers Grove, I worked there way back in the day as well when she was a consultant there. Known her forever. Her big thing with this is like, this is the perfect wine for this time of year. Like, you know, we're finally getting some nice, fresh springtime weather, like a fresh zippy white wine goes with all the different foods you're going to be having this time of year. Right. Spring asparagus, stuff like that. Not easy to pair, but you want to go with a really crisp white wine with that. Fish dishes, of course. So I love this label because the little English that's on this is their motto, a true expression of heroic viticulture from the Tradois Mountains. So obviously grown at altitude, going to be all hand picked. Only $17.99. Yeah, this is very high quality. It's definitely something that if you're looking for something different, it almost kind of reminds me of like a crisper Moscovilla row. Yeah. What the hell is that? It's another, it's a Greek variety that- A line from the Queen song? Scaramouche. Let me go. Anyway, yeah, Moscovilla row tends to be a little broader in the palate and a little waxier in the texture. And so I think you're right though, it has those qualities, but flavor profile wise, but the texture is different. For sure. One of the interesting things about Moscovilla row was the people that brought us Santa Margarita. They actually had a bottling, they still do, of Moscovilla row and they were going to try to make it the next Santa Margarita and it just never, never really quite took off. Nobody was on that one like flies. That's a word play. This has some really intense acidity. It's cool. I bet you like it, bro. But I don't know if some people might not be able to handle it. I like it, but man, it's zippy. Again, the right food is often called for. This would be great with seafood. The lemony acidity to this. Precisely. Anything you want to squeeze lemon on, you could even do those with fish fry or cut through that acidity. I mean, the acidity will cut through the fat and the richness. It would also be nice with steamed or really delicate seafoods too, because it's a delicate wine, but it does have some intensity. And like Ray said, we're on an island here, so sea influence and a mountainous region, so elevation. So you get that cool nighttime temperatures that keep things really fresh. I like this one. It's cool. Yeah. Bravo, Cindy. If my store ever reopens, I'll definitely, we're going to need to restock it very soon. And I'll definitely make sure to include this one. Yeah, it's cool, right? All right, back to Roger for the next couple of ones then. Okay, so I was recently at Arlington Heights doing a beer class. I ended up talking to one of their wine consultants, CW. We actually were talking to, we were geeking out over old fashioned German style lagers for a while. So again, was pitching kind of the type of wines I enjoy. And I mentioned that I do like Rieslings. So I said, you know, what would be maybe something in that department? Unlike with Dave, I kind of said, you know, let's try to stay like under 25 or so. So he said, you know, do you want it from Germany? I said, no, that could be from anywhere. So this is Hyland Estates 2022 Old Vine Riesling. Single vineyard. From Oregon. Yeah, from the Willamette. We just mentioned Riesling in Oregon. So here's one. How about that? McMinnville AVA, huh? So this is one of the- I've been to McMinnville. The oldest wineries in Oregon. I don't- I'm not sure what number it was, but I think it's like number three on the list. So that would be going back to the like mid late 60s. There's only 1599. Where the wine industry really started with people like Irie and Hyland was not far behind. This is calling itself Old Vine Riesling. So we don't know how old, but it was probably planted- Is that like small batch bourbon? Well, it is. It can very much be like that because it's not a regulated term. In the US, no regulation on that. Music from the 90s these days is old. Is that regulation on using old vine internationally? There are of course rules in the European Union. Here people use it very loosely and they use alternate phrases like ancient vine and all kinds of things. It's really up to the producer's discretion and their integrity. But I imagine these are probably 40 plus years. These were probably planted in the 70s. So the winery established 1971. And you can tell that these are some truly old vines because you're just getting just wafts of petrol off of the nose here. And we always say petrol instead of gasoline. I guess because that's what the English always called it. And for some reason, petrol sounds better than it smells like gasoline. You want some wine? It smells like gas. Hey, who doesn't like smell in their hands when they pump gas? Don't lie. But interestingly, some people consider it a flaw. It's one of those things you either love it or hate it. I've generally found. I personally like this quality in Riesling. And for the price point here, I think, you know, this is a really good expression of domestic Riesling. Well balanced. It's not offensive smelling or anything. There's a little bit of that there, but it's it makes sense. Yeah, I think it's it's highly aromatic. It's it's got a really beautiful nose if you like that kind of thing. And it's not overpowering. There's a lot of other stuff going on there. So it's just an accent. This is usually the result of lots of sun exposure. As we know, if we go northerly, just like in Germany or Alsace in Oregon, you get these longer days of sun, right? If you prune in a certain way, your grapes may be exposed and you produce keratin. So if you've ever seen like a ripe Riesling grape, they turn pretty orange. Yeah, this is a result of keratin metabolizing into something called TDN, which smells like that naphthalene. I kind of dig it. It's expressive for sure. I mean, when you first smell it, I don't know if it's between just that it immediately is hitting the glass. It seemed more intense than it does now. Maybe my senses are just acclimated to it now as well. But some of those things are as I revisit it, I like it even more. It's not quite as like holy cow like it is when you first approach it. And this would be amongst us wine geeks. This is the type of wine that we take to BYO Thai places. Sure. It's like you walk into a BYO Thai place and you run into someone from the trade nine times out of ten. They're going to have some kind of Riesling sitting on the table. For sure. Really great pairing. The hotter you like your Thai food, the more residual sugar you might want to crank up. You have the this kind of the reflection of the same elements that occur in Thai cooking. You have sweet, sometimes salty, high acidity. So you get a lot of lime and lemongrass and things in there. And it just matches incredibly well and little residual sugar playing off chili peppers is phenomenal. One of the great cuisines to pair with Riesling. And this isn't exactly bone dry. There's probably a little bit of RS in this, but it definitely drinks very, very dry. Yeah. But I mean, Riesling can be searingly dry, like a trochan from the Mosel. I mean, those wines can, you know, just cut your tongue in half. You know, they have so much acidity. Seriously. Yeah. This is actually really well done. I agree. There's a little bit RS here. It's a little plump up front with fruit, but it really, really finishes dry and slightly textured. Really nice. Well done. I'm a big fan. I love those. Nice recommendation. CW. That was CW at Arleys Knights, right? Nice. All right, we got Rog's last wine next. Gonna keep on trucking in the Willamette here. Another Willamette, huh? Yeah, I found this really interesting that just completely, coincidentally, two wines from the Willamette. I may have had this wine before. I recognize the winery name of this. Yeah, we carry their Pinot Noir, too. This is, I don't think I've ever had this before. This is their Viognier. This smells awesome. This is Ilihi Viognier. What vintage we have on this thing. 2022, Willamette Valley Appellated. 2299. These guys are really hardcore kind of tantamount to biodynamic winemaking. Some wines, they don't use any mechanical, anything other than a manual basket press. And they use horses in the vineyard and stuff like that. So they're pretty old school that way. They're kind of a throwback. And Dan Farber also uses horses in his vineyard. Kind of in line with what because they produce a lot of Pinot Noir in line with what is going on with a lot of producers and Burgundy hardcore biodynamic approach. I don't know if these guys adhere strictly to biodynamic principles, but they're kind of, you know, at least sustainable. They're I believe, super sustainable. Super. Yeah, it's crazy. Definitely another aromatic varietal. So a person that steered you in this direction, I think again, good choice. And I actually really like this because Viognier can be really super flabby and have a lack of acidity. This is flirting with being a bit fat. I mean, in the wrong hands, these can be like just, I mean, just a complete mess. It would just be like kind of like a mead if someone was going to combine it with Miller Light. Real quick, let me just interject. So, this is the recommendation to Dan, long time wine consultant of Binny's. And I just wanted to chime in that those are exactly the kind of things he was saying. He said, you know, he doesn't normally even gravitate towards this style, but that he thought it was an exceptional example of it and that he felt they were taking really good care with the grapes here. This is Dan where? Oakbrook. Oakbrook. So, this is an interesting story too. This grape was pretty much completely isolated to the Northern Rhone Valley for a long time and plantings had, you know, trailed off quite a lot. There's an appellation called Conjureux where it's produced and more, there are more producers now but Gigaul, which I'm sure you know, actually produces the bulk of the Conjureux that's out there. And there's actually a single estate appellation in the Rhone called Chateau Grisier, it's its own AOC and they just do Viognier. Wow. That's kind of cool. Crazy. I'm getting like some stone fruity character out of this for sure, peachy nectarene type of thing. Yeah, very typical. Actually the traditional style like Ray was saying in France is to leave a little RS, which they did not do here, and they can get a little fat, but they're often just a little sweet and always like rich bruised peach, sometimes veering into tropical, floral. Well the kind of- The florality here I think is here in a big way. This is awesome. Yeah. It's very nice. It's the kind of wine that you might pair with like something with fruit salsa or something like mango salsa, you know, where you have some natural sweetness, but you don't want to kill it with totally sweet wine. But here they're going for vibrant, fresh, crisp, and you still get those trademark floral and stone fruit notes from the grape, but very cool climate and- It's got a big kiwi note to it too. Yeah. This is a neat wine. It's quite nice. Yeah. And typically Vignes are bigger, richer than your Sauvignon Blancs. And I've always found if I have a Vignes that I like, that's well made in the store, that isn't off the charts price-wise, I can direct people who are trying to, that drink a lot of Chardonnay and want to try something else. Because aromatically Chardonnay is not that interesting compared to this. But a lot of people that are Chardonnay drinkers, they don't like Sauvignon Blanc or Pinot Grigio because they're too light. They're used to the big, rich mouthfeel. And that's what Vignes generally has. So yeah, if you're a Chardonnay drinker and looking to branch out, go check out some Vignes. And it tends to be a more expensive varietal, yeah? You can find inexpensive examples, but yes. Yeah. This was somewhat moderate. I mean, I think this was around $22.99. $22.99. That's where Vignes, typically good Vignes lives. People are doing a better job with it now. And one of the perennial best buys that we always have, and it's like $10 is the Yolumba Wise Series Vignes from Australia. It's crazy good for the price. It makes like top 100 lists all the time for best value vintage in and vintage out. It's the Yolumba Wise Series. Ironically, I was just going to reference that myself because it is the the buy in Vignes and a really interesting historic Australian winery. They have their own Coop Ridge, which is really rare. $10.99. Yeah, that's crazy. That is very much the Roger approved price. Roger Adamson, nice price guarantee. And also, interestingly enough, founded by a brewer. Really? Indeed. Yes. When Samuel Smith packed up his bags and moved to Australia, he made wine. From Tadcaster to Australia. The same? The same. The one and only Sammy Smith. Yes. That's pretty wild. So you guys are following in some well-trod footsteps there. Indeed. Yeah, this is a really historic winery in Australia. I should have grabbed some of that new Firestone Locker. That XPA is modeled after, apparently in New Zealand and Australia, they're going crazy over this style. And it features some Nelson Hops. It's very wine-like and it's killer. It looks super bright. We're going to try it. Hopefully, Matt will be back on the podcast and we'll try it. But it's a phenomenal beer. I mean, I don't think we can drive this point home enough. If you're familiar with Viognier, speaking of super bright, this is really crisp. That might have been my favorite wine so far. I liked Bofisa's recommendation too. Yeah. I mean, there's really good kind of limey acidity to this. This next one, you have to help me with the pronunciation is a Sus, Susu, Susumaniello, Susmaniello? Susumaniello. Susu Sudio? This was recommended to me by wine manager Tim out in Geneva. He's worked for us forever, really knows his stuff, helps Alicia with education, teaching wine 101s and things like that too now. What is the producer here? This is an Italian red, this is an ancient grape varietal, yeah? Yes, probably brought over by the Greeks. As there are a lot of Southern Italians. Yeah, this is Puglia. It is. So we are in the heel of the boot, so direct opposite from where we were in Liguria. You can't get two more different regions, although they are both beautiful and stunning. One has historically been very wealthy, and one has historically been very poor. That's a Puglia in case you didn't know. Maybe they are listening to the podcast, and they know that Brophy has been to Italy before. So this is from the Salento IGT, and generally you are seeing a lot of Negro Morrow down here, which is I assume what this is. The workhorse grape. No, it's Susumaniello. Yeah. Oh, I'm an idiot. This is 2021. It is $22.99. Definitely a perennial favorite amongst wine managers throughout our company. A lot of bang for the buck from one of the better producers in Puglia, which has not been known as a fine wine producing region. It's just basically all bulk. Yeah. Susumaniello is found only in Puglia, yeah, according to Wikipedia. Until recently, the variety had fallen quite out of favor with viticulturists. However, since 2003, it has been included on a list of varieties approved by the Apulian region for cultivation in the area of Central Mergia. Yeah. So ancient, varietal, something that Jesus Christ could have drank. That old, huh? So the theory is it crossed from Greece or like the Dalmatian coast area of Croatia. Yeah. They don't know. But yeah, it probably isn't native, but it's been there for so long that it is now native. Yeah. It's got a Greek nickname in that area. Interesting. You think the tannins seem more pronounced since this is our first red wine? Or how would you describe the tannin level on this? I'm always super susceptible. I'd say firm. Yeah, they're definitely present. It's not shy, but it's not ripping my mouth off. Yeah. I think a lot of bang for the buck. More than just a Tuesday night pizza line, you can throw a nice cut of red meat with this. No problem. Sure. And it has nice fresh acidity to it. And to me, I get a lot of herbal notes like bay leaf and things like that popping up. Totally get the bay leaf. The nose has some blackberry that's pretty cool. Yeah. And this is not an incredibly full bodied wine. It's structured, but it's kind of medium bodied and bright fruit. It looks beautiful. It's got these violet highlights that are pretty stunning. That probably speaks to the relatively reductive wine making. It's not wild. Look at that. In the light, it's like neon violet. So again, I gave my criteria of what I was looking for to Tim over at Geneva. And his first thought was, well, I have this red Pinot Grigio. I was like, what? That's a thing. And we talked about it recently here since I had talked to him, but he couldn't get it anymore. So then this was his second choice. So weirdly, limited edition. The people I was talking to this morning also poured one of those. They're going to be his picks of the year, Alicia style, where he's just like on the payroll. OK, that's pretty good. That's our only dry red wine of the day. Maybe. Depends on this thing that Ben and Linkin Park gave me. So Ben at Linkin Park, of course, gave me a natural wine. Ben, one of the two wine managers there, has been on the podcast several times. Big natural wine fan. He does like the natural wines. And I asked him, I said, listen man, I want something though where that bottle is in the store until somebody who works here is actively involved and advocating for it essentially. It's looking like an Addy. Oh boy. There's literally like a haze. I'm trying to add it up. Do we want to stir it up or not stir it up? Cause there's stuff floating around in there. Just pour yourself some. It's just like, you know, you can't let the rest of us pour it first. You remember that glitter liqueur we had where you'd stir it up? Stop doing that. Come on, stop it. Well, I like the label. I mean, I can only see it from afar, but it looks like a Hubble space telescope shot or something. Yeah. So did he explain to you what this actually is? No, he did not. It's called Ultraviolet Day David from Domaine Mueller Keberley. I'm going to need some help with the pronunciation here. There are seven grapes blended in this. Ossura, Ossuree. Ossura. Ossura, that's 12 and a half percent. Pinot Blanc, 20.8 percent. Pinot Noir, 26.6. Muscat, 6.6. Pinot Gris, 16.6. Riesling, 12 and a half. And Gewurztraminer, 4.1 percent. This is basically a take on a Alsatian style in a very natural way called Adelswicker, where they basically- Where they basically throw everything in the kitchen sink into one blend. The addition of Pinot Noir would not be something that they would have done in Allsauce, but the rest of those varietals, well probably not the Riesling, because Riesling brings in a lot more money. But the other varietals, yeah, they all go into these kitchen sink blends that are highly quaffable, super fun to drink in the summer when you're hanging out, eating delicious Alsatian cuisine. I like this. This is like an entry-level tart sour beer, and it's not that tart or sour. It's just, it's got that, the combination of acidity and fruitiness just kind of brings that back in my mind. Quick question. Have you ever opened up the orange juice in the fridge and you realize that it's really old and it's started to ferment? That's exactly what this tastes like. It's also got kind of a tea quality to it for me. Yeah, it's definitely, well done, Ben. Something new that I haven't had, Chris hasn't had, and looks like the rest of us haven't had a super fun wine for the summer. If he doesn't sell it all before, I mean, they probably made what, like 150 cases of this? So most of those grape varieties are pretty familiar, but the Auxerrois is an Alsatian variety as well that can be blended into varietally labeled Pinot Blanc. 32.99 on this bad boy. It's considered close to Pinot Blanc stylistically. I mean, he knows what you like, Pat, because this is definitely some Nolambic drinker, or more specifically, an American sour drinker like yourself that loves the beers of Cascade, for example, would like this. Well, there's a lot of crossover between the craft beer customer and the natural wine customer, because you find a lot of flavors that are unique to both those styles. My favorite example is Britannomyces, which in most wine is considered a flaw. People in the beer world actually actively cultivate and inoculate their beers with. So another flavor that you either love it or hate it, generally speaking. This, I will say, we've tried some natural wines before where the acetic acid is more prevalent, and that's what I have a tougher time with. This, I feel, is there's some pretty big acidity here, but at least it's not. It's pretty bright. But you're right, I don't think it's particularly volatile or anything. No, it's just very fresh acidity and that some tannic texture from the skin contact. It's like fresh citrus fruit. I mean, I could see people liking this because of the fruit characters off the charts. When you were talking about they throw everything on the skins, this almost reminds me of when you do a tempache and you let it just ferment with pineapple rinds, and sometimes people put other rinds of fruit in those. I mean, it's extremely fruit forward. I mean, this is the kind of wine you'd serve chilled at a picnic, summer day, totally refreshing, go with a lot of foods, not overwhelm anything, not get in the way of anything, but still stand up to the stuff. You know what I would serve this as? Pebble ice. I would just pour it over a big old glass of pebble ice. All right. Maybe do a rum floater too for good measure. Why not? I had several chartreuse swizzles last night. And I was wishing I had pebble ice. Did you break out the swizzle stick? No. I had stuff to do, so I built it in a shaker, then put ice in it, and then shook the hell out of it. And that brings us to the Q&A portion of Barrel to Bottle, The Binny's Podcast, where you send us a question about something involving us and the products we sell. To comments at binnys.com or at Binny's Bev on the social media of your choice. Yes, even that one. If we answer your question, we'll give you a $20 Binny's gift card. Good for anything in our store, including Utz Hoops Mix Snack Mix, which is my top choice currently. This week's question comes from Katie, Rose and she says, Hello, Binny's team, what's the difference between dry and Blanco Vermouth? And how do you know what makes a good one? Interesting. So dry vermouth created by the French, but now co-opted by the Italians as well, is herbal, lean, dry, no, not much added sugar, tends to be a little more bitter. Blanco vermouth or Bianco vermouth or Blanc vermouth is essentially sweet vermouth without the coloring added. All these sweet vermouths that are brownish, reddish, ruddy-ish in color, that is all caramel coloring that is added at the back end before they are bottled. So your sweet vermouth, your Blanco vermouth, Blanc, Blanc, Bianco, gonna be used to give this sweet vermouth effect, that balance of vanilla and cocoa with the citrus and the herbal and the spice, baking spices, that kind of thing, without muddying up the cocktail. Whereas the dry vermouth, that herbal, bitter, leaner vermouth, that's of course more for things like martinis and gin drinks. Whereas the Blanco vermouth tends to go with some whiskies and it has a variety of uses. What was the most- I disagree, good man. No, what did, what was our most recent Blanc vermouth? The finest martinis are made in the old method in which it is equal parts gin and sweet vermouth. But if you want to really have it sing, you use a Blanco. Yeah, and more importantly, make it still look pretty. Correct. Yeah, look good. But yeah, I think Blanco vermouth is one of the most underappreciated things on the shelf by, certainly the vermouth shelf. They're fantastic in cocktails. And I think they're going to appeal to, brought our audience in that, a lot of people try dry vermouth and they're just too herbaceous for them, too strange. Too bitter. And then a lot of the sweets are too sweet. So in many ways, white can be that nice in between. Like you said, are still sweeter. They're not dry. And I would say- If you're one of the four people in the country making a Martina as a Blanco vermouth is a great option. Right, right. I would say we're talking in the context of cocktails here a lot, but I think this is also one of the friendlier styles to drink by itself. Yep. Yeah. Right? So I did a vermouth class last August or so for a group of wine enthusiasts at the Lincoln Park Store and their favorite of the night by far was Dolan Blanc. Sure. It's a great aperitif and you go to almost anywhere in Europe and you'll see people sipping on some kind of vermouth and it's, I mean, it's not unusual at all. I remember the first time I saw people just sitting at a bar and this was in the art museum in Katowice of all places and people were just knocking on Cinzano Blanc back like they were nothing. And it wasn't that big of a museum but we were there because it appeared to be the last place in town that wasn't like a club that had beer in stock because this was during the communist days. And so you couldn't just go to the local store and get some Pivo. And so we wound up hanging out at the art museum and drinking beer. Yeah, you know, I don't think Americans have adopted as much but in Europe, something bitter before dinner stimulates the appetite. So just like you might use it as a digestif after dinner, it gets your juices going and prepares you for your meal. So vermouth before dinner or at aperitif time is pretty classic. I would say too that one of the things I enjoy using white vermouth for is in the summertime when you're looking for something that's refreshing and maybe lower alcohol, especially if you're drinking during the day and you don't want to end up passing out in the Adirondack chair. White vermouth, you can think of it as like you're making your own soda, like a spritz. So, you know, Blanco vermouth, soda water and some lemon is amazing. Maybe do a dash of bitters in there too. Maybe some orange bitters, but super easy, very low alcohol. If you want it to have alcohol, add some gin in there too, but great tall drink in the summer. I like a little, you know, in late spring, early summer, a little strawberry garnish on that is nice. The second half of Katie Rose's question was, how do you tell a good one? You know, that's subjective, of course. I would say broadly spend more than $9 for a 750. Yeah, stay away from the bottom shelfers are like kind of more afterthought. There are some good bottom shelf dry and sweet vermouths, but there's not a lot of Blanc Vermouth, period. And the ones we carry tend to be pretty good. Ray mentioned Martini, or no, Cinzano. Cinzano Martini, kind of the big brand ones. You know, I would skip over them and probably go to Dolan or the C.Camo's or Carpano's, Bianco's nice, but typical what you're going to find with Italian vermouth is across the board, it's going to be sweeter than French vermouth. So it kind of depends what you want to go. Where Dolan, Chamboury France, going to be a little more dialed back on the sweetness. Don't forget, as always, keep it refrigerated once you open it, right? The date on that you opened it on the bottle. I tend to think that the hipsters are a little aggressive when they say how quickly you need to drink them. Yeah, probably. I think it's ridiculous. They'll say, you know, a couple weeks, you a couple months easily. I agree. I mean, there's some added alcohol here. It's not like as delicate. They are fortified. I've drank six month old vermouth from the fridge. That was still great. And as always, keep it in the back of the refrigerator. Don't put it in your refrigerator door because the colder you keep it, the longer it will last. Don't put it in the freezer right next to your wine. I bet you could. I've never tried it, but you could probably. You probably could freeze it. It probably wouldn't freeze between the sugar and the alcohol. Oh, only one way to find out. That's true. So next week's episode, frozen wine. The gang freezes wine. All right, Katie Rose, thanks for sending the question. Again, if you got one, hit us up comments at binnys.com or at Binny's Bev on the social media of your choice. I hope you enjoyed this excellent adventure with Roger and I today. We may be back for a bogus journey in your future. Maybe we'll bring our friends, Socrates Johnson and Bob Genghis Khan. Until next week, I'm Pat. I'm Roger. Be excellent to one another. Ah, you stole it! I was going to use it instead of keep tasting. I'm Ray. And I'm Chris. San Dimas High School Football Rules! Keep tasting!