00:00 Belgian Beer Culture Roger, Jim says you wanted these two on this episode. Well, he's a Belgian beer nerd, so I thought he should be on it. Why can't just everybody be on it? Yeah. Why, Greg? It wasn't an indicator that he didn't want you on the episode. I don't know, man. You came to them and asked this question. Who'd Roger want on this one? Well, those two. Okay. I think he wanted those two specifically. That's fine. That's fine. For specific reasons. He didn't say he didn't want you. It wasn't like that other episode. I mean, you're... Yeah. You already haven't taken the ice cream hint, Greg. What are you still doing here? Because we don't want to talk to you. He just... She just told you what she was doing. You just drank out a whole thing of ice cream. Don't you feel weird right now? Don't you think you need to go maybe? Sit down. There is stuff for you to like here. In the last episode, I remember thinking you wouldn't really care for much of it. That was the implication. I'm very excited to see what Lexi thinks of some of these. I'm sure some of these she's never had. So you've had, I'm sure, all these beers. So happy to have you here. The other one, you weren't worried that I wouldn't like them. You were worried that I wouldn't like them and wouldn't be able to hold my tongue about it. Yeah. Today, I want to emphasize that beer is still alive and well and worth believing in. We're going to go back to what inspired me to fall in love with beer, and that is the great beers of Belgium. So an iconic tour de force of some of the classic styles of Belgian beer. You're listening to another episode of Barrel to Bottle, The Binny's Podcast. My name is Roger, I work in beer, and in the studio today we have... I'm Greg, I do communications at Binny's. I'm Chris, I do wine stuff, I love Belgian beer. I'm Lexi, I do social stuff. Also Jim's over there. What up, Jim? So, Jim, you're gonna get a callus today on your thumb for the ham horn button, because I'm gonna say Bottle Condition a lot. Again, I wanted to feature some Belgian beers here. We've obviously done this in past episodes from time to time. But in kind of the spirit of when you are in the bookstore, which not many people are these days, and you see kind of those books that say like beers to try before you die or the 100 best beers in the world, they're full of Belgian beers. And for such a small country, their beer culture is strong. All right. Say like a kid today would understand. So you're scrolling your feed and you see a listicle. I was just literally joking today that we need more Belgian beer content on Instagram. How about this hot take? French fries are not French. They're Belgian and they're fantastic with Belgian beer. They're referred to as frites. Right there. Who doesn't like French fries? The fries are French. They are not French. Right. French cut, you mean? Yeah. We should do a fry Belgian beer pairing with multiple styles of fries. German chocolate cake isn't from Germany. It is definitely not. It's from Texas. It's American. It's made with German's chocolate. It has nothing to do with the country. Okay. 3:36 Witbier Exploration Hoegaarden. I've already learned a lot today. Not the other way. Okay. Hoegaarden, not Hoegaarden, often mispronounced. A lot of goofy words with some of these Belgian beers that are very difficult to pronounce. Witbier is, of all the Belgian beer styles, it's the most emulated and recognized, which is ironic because not that long ago in 1950, the last brewery that was producing Witbier in Belgium slash the world went under. So it's one of those rare instances where you have a singular event. One person, a gentleman by the name of Pierre Sellis, recreates this beer style that his hometown of Hoegaarden is famous for. He doesn't want to see it disappear. In the 1960s, he opens up his brewery and it takes off like wildfire, in part because as Greg alluded to, this is the kind of beer that is just you can drink it anytime a day. It's a great breakfast beer. Yes, Belgians drink beer at breakfast all the way until dinner time. And it pairs with just about anything you can dream of. Witbier, wit is a Dutch word for white. These are wheat beers. They're served unfiltered. So this is kind of one of your OG hazies, much like when you talk about Hefeweizens. They have that because of the wheat creaminess to them. So the mouthfeel is nice and soft. So if you do like hazier beers because of that, you'll find something to love in these. Unlike some IPAs, they're very low in alcohol, very modest, 4.9. The crushable, juicy beer. Yeah, right. It really is. Some of that fruit flavor is thanks to Curaçao Orange Peels. We've talked about those on the show before, and we've geeked out on Orange Liqueur. Should they make it blue? The Curaçao Orange, famous for the Dutch Island and their bitter in flavor. Probably, if there's one, you might not even realize you've had a witbier. The most common one is Blue Moon made by Coors, and they, in addition to using the bitter orange peel, they use sweet orange as well. That's like the American take, we need everything sweeter. But the other aspect of a witbier that's unique is that they use coriander, which we've jested in the past, gives the Blue Moon the hot dog water flavor. Famous hot dog water. I mean, that's what's so amazing about the balance of this beer. The coriander is so beautifully integrated into everything. Yes. And it does not, yeah. I've had so many beers with coriander over the years, home brews, all kinds of things where it's just insane. Can you smell the hot dogs? Hot dogs? No, but I get banana. Banana, lemon, clove, all over the place. That's not in this. I don't know what's going on here. Yeah. Coriander is one of those things where like today, you're going to hear me say a lot like American brewers. It's like there's so many pitfalls where you can go overboard on things. I could see adding a little more orange than you would think, but more coriander isn't necessarily better. Someone gested once that Blue Moon tasted like hot dog water. I'm like, what are you talking about? Well, there is a lot of- Coriander is one of the signature spices in hot dogs. There's some element of truth to it, but it's just an aside joke. Coriander as a brewing spice is something you'll see in a lot of Belgian beer. Look for that today. It's also the yeast character of a lot of these beers is a big part of them, and you'll get a spicy coriander or especially clove character just from the yeast alone. That's how it shows here. They should use celery salt. I bet it pairs nicely with a hot dog though. That's what I was going to say. Because of that coriander, think of the kind of foods that use coriander or cuisines. If you're a fan of cilantro, the seeds of cilantro are coriander, so that makes us a great partner for things that use not just coriander but also cilantro, like Philippine cuisine, Thai cuisine, Indian cuisine. Witbier is a great choice for all those. Anything with spice, anything with a lot of salt. Hoegaarden is also an awesome value buy. We're going to have some pretty expensive stuff in the beer realm expensive today, but you can get this in 12 packs. 12 packs of 11.2 ounce bottles are only 18.99, so a total steal. Great beer, something that I think it's overlooked but hugely influential in the beer world, and influenced a lot of craft brewers, in particular Rob Todd from Allagash, and the most heavily award-winning almost craft beer period, especially Witbier, Can I offer one more observation on this one? Yeah. Speaking of hot dogs, you know that like light, fluffy, almost ephemeral quality from a steamed fresh hot dog bun, probably why they have to put poppy seeds on there to give it some character, that's the body of this beer. It is just a fluff, fluffy, soft, so plush. I think very apropos, the wheat, it's often hard to just describe to people what they think of when you say wheat. Chris says cream of wheat a lot, because he's an old soul and actually has had cream of wheat. Whereas a lot of people are like, what the hell are you talking about? But yeah, bread is obviously the go-to, but I think in particular around to something there, that pillowy soft hot dog, wonder bread bun. Super duper soft bread. I moved to peas porridge. Peas porridge. Allagash White. This is Belgian style Witbier brewed here in the US, Portland, Maine at Allagash. This is the flagship beer from Allagash, what they hang their hat on. They've won a boatload of metals for this, including six gold medals at JBF., Great American Beer Festival. They definitely at Allagash have always taken pride in using local ingredients. So this is made with some few different kinds of wheat, oats, and both oats and wheat give beer kind of a soft plushness. So I get that there or I get that here. This is hopped with nugget, crystal, and check saws. So nugget and crystal are American hops. So it gives it a little bit of a different hop character. The Hoegaarden was pretty subdued when it came to hops. There's a little bit of hops here. But I think it comes across in citrus qualities. It's a little more lemony. Yeah, I agree. Maybe a little more body to this one. I don't know what you guys think. It's more focused too. It's brighter. Yeah. I think the wheatiness is where it wears its wheatiness on its sleeve. Yeah. One of the classic pairings, you hear this broken record today with a lot of Belgian beers is seafood. That's something that Allagash has always done a really good job is highlighting food and beer pairing. I think part of it is that in Portland, Maine, they're right on the water, so they have access to all this world-class seafood. But if you're a fan of things like making lobster rolls or lobster, clams, mussels. Yeah, steam some mussels in this. Right. Steam mussels, classic Belgian dish. And yeah, don't just steam them in water. Of course, you'd use beer, and this would be a great candidate for that. Yeah. I did not know that was a thing. It's a delicious thing. Steamed mussels? And it's one of the most irritating and difficult to eat things, because you have to have refuse bowls as you deconstruct the animals. Other diners. You can use the shells as a little. Pinscher. Pinscher to pull another meat out and classically serve with french fries, moules frites. I'm into the french fries idea. I don't know about the mussels. So we happen to have a world famous bar here in Chicago called the Hop Leaf and that's kind of their deal. You need to check it out and check out their moules frites there. They are phenomenal. And Aole to Die For served with them as well. 11:37 Saison Styles OK, so we're going to throughout today kind of tried, for the most part, to work from light to dark. So up next, we're going to hit up a couple Cezanne's. And of course, we're going to start with the most iconic, and that is Cezanne Dupont. You know what comes in cans now? All right, so we've talked about this one in the podcast before. I think we've had this more than any other beer. I don't want to like, I, yeah. Last time I was at Hop Leaf, I drank copious amounts of Cezanne Dupont. What? Why? Because I like it. Because like you couldn't decide on the 80 other pages of beer menu? No, it was just my mood. Oh, all right. Well, that's one of the beautiful things about Cezanne Dupont is that you can drink copious amounts of it. It pairs with literally everything. I know we've mentioned this before, but Garrett Oliver, whom we had on the podcast, famously deemed this the Swiss Army knife of food and beer pairing because it can achieve things that even wine fails to do at times. How dare you? Asparagus comes to mind. Yeah, I mean, we have talked about this beer a lot, so I'll let you guys do the talking as far as what you think it tastes like, but we'll just say that I'm always asking brewers what they would want to make if they didn't have to worry about ingredient cost or selling the beer. And you wouldn't believe how many brewers I meet that go, you know, at the end of the day, I wish I could just make Saison Dupont. I mean, this is a breweries that are known for hazy IPAs. And they're like, I would really like to make a Saison like Saison Dupont. So it's pretty beloved. And I think part of what Chris said, that you can just sit there and drink it all day is part of the reason why. Noble aspiration, I'd say. I feel like sometimes you see Saison on the menu and it's like the sugar, it's like tart bomb. It's not anything like this, which is crazy to think. That is an excellent observation. So I've jested before that Saison is the most high risk, moderate reward beer style to order because when they're great, they are great. But there's so many pitfalls. And I think that's why brewers appreciate them, is that there's so many ways you could go overboard with this style. They can be under fermented, so then they feel way too heavy and too sweet. They can be overspiced. So like sometimes because the yeast strain is spicy, people want to amp that up by adding spices. And then you end up with things that taste like you're drinking potpourri. Even black pepper, you know? Yeah. There's all kinds of stuff. Fermentation temp, you can end up fermenting too high, so then the spice character gets like crazy clove bordering on like cleaning products because it's just... So it's one of those things where it might look like beer to people, like it's golden in color as white foam on top, but like it's not easy to make. And then you get ones that are funky, like this says farmhouse ale, but that's kind of code word on a lot of beers for like, this might have wild yeast. In this case, it does not, but then you get into the more challenging flavors like horse blanket, sweaty horse blanket, zoo, as I sometimes when it's not done well, like, hmm, I feel like I'm in a barn or the house. Okay. So by contrast, this example of Saison Dupont poured from a small brown glass bottle is super clean. It's very complex. You said black pepper sometimes, just white pepper in here underlying it. It's got a lot of the same qualities of the last couple that we've had, soft, easy to drink, but it's a little darker and it's like a little more toward the Wheaties versus Corn Flakes. I would also say it has a beautiful noble hop quality that is not over the top, but it's certainly present. I like the bitterness at the end. Right. Exactly. Again, you see these Saisons and they finish and they're so sweet, or this one and like, oh, more. Well, and perfect for food, right? Yeah. I think when Chris says noble hops for those that are familiar, so that's more like old world hops, which hops have been selectively bred here in the US to be more fruit forward. But originally for hundreds of years, they were more herbal. So when you think about brewing and that there's a food aspect to it and a cooking aspect to it, you can look at hops as the herbs and spice of beer. So just as Greg said, there's a spicy quality to it. That noble hop character is also an herbal. So it's just like when you're cooking, you're adding spices and herbs. So it really like dialing in that balance can really be, I think, part of what makes this cool is that it's just so perfectly, they didn't go overboard. What's the ABV on it? 6.5. You can drink this all day. You can drink it all day. I do sometimes, until naptime. So as Greg mentioned, this is available in cans as well. The cans are $19.99 a four-pack. Otherwise, you can get it in four-pack bottles, which are $16.99. Or you can get the big old 750s old school style, which are $13.99. What a deal for a world-class beer. Indeed. Pick some up. There's merits to both the bottles and cans. Cans protect the beer from light. They're also, Saison Dupont mainly now is all brown glass, which is great because for years, there was green and you get skunky ones. But we're going to move on to another Saison here that is available in six-pack bottles if you want to believe that. It's even higher ABV. On the bang for your buck category, this one's pretty difficult to beat. This is Boulevard's Tank 7. Oh man, I haven't had this in a long time. Roger, why are most Belgian beers served in bottles and less cans? Get that ham horn ready. You asked him the question. He's been shaking in his pants to talk about this whole episode so far. Shame on me for not bringing it up sooner. The answer to that is bottle conditioning. A lot of the beers that we're drinking today are living beer. You can think of most beer for time's sake, it is force-carbonated. Think like mineral water, soda pop, they're just adding carbonation into the liquid. When you ferment, you are producing alcohol and carbon dioxide, but a lot of the times the breweries are just letting that CO2 off gas and float into the atmosphere. If you ferment in an enclosed container, whether it's a tank with a valve on it, or if you put that into a bottle or a can, you can do it in cans, it's not as easy and you trap that gas, you're getting a natural carbonation in the container. It's a whole extra step, more time, time is money, and when you're buying the glass for it, you'll notice as you're holding some of these glasses today, they're really heavy, so you need to buy thicker glass that can withstand the pressure of it fermenting inside the bottle. Again, for those of you that are wine drinkers, this is nothing new to you, this is like the idea behind a champagne process. But just like champagne, you get a mousse-like creamier texture when something is bottle conditioned. Yeah, this would be akin to the Pet Nat style that you're so fond of. Refermentation in the bottle without removal of the yeast. Like in champagne, they disgorge the bottles and get rid of the yeast. And there is even some beers that had done that in the past, and maybe still. But yeah, it's just that natural effervescence. That also means that it continues to live in the bottle. And depending on when you have it, it attenuates the beer differently. It could be undercooked and a little sweet or overcooked and dry and super explosive. And as we've joked about on the podcast before where there's a lot of people that sell their beer, and they tend to sell their beers like Imperial Stouts. Well, most of them, short of like two or three, are not bottle conditioned. So if you're cellaring something that's not bottle conditioned, it's just oxidizing. And some would argue that means it's degrading and you just hope in a beneficial, pleasant way. Whereas, if you're cellaring something like one of these Belgian beers, especially when you try like a Quad, for example, it's still evolving and it's literally producing new flavors, new aromas, and it's much more of a kind of worthwhile endeavor to age it, to see how it's going to change. And to Greg's point, some of those beers have a little more sweetness in them and they'll dry up a little bit if you have the time and patience. You're like Chris and just hold a beer for 20 years. I'm sure. But no, it really is fun to see how much some of these change, whereas some of the other beers that I've inadvertently aged, you're like, oh, well, this isn't even good anymore. But the legs on barrel-aged beers are much longer. So Boulevard Tank 7, this is hopped with Amarillo and Citra. So we're in modern American hop. So if you like IPAs, this might be a perfect crossover beer for you. I'm loving this one. Just caught me off guard after that last one. Yeah. Yeah. It's big fruit and pine. Yeah. Amarillo I always get orange and tangerine from. So I think that is definitely a pronounced thing here. It's big. There's maybe a little bit of pepper from the alcohol, but it's not necessarily boozy. But it says 28 IBUs, which it almost presents more than that. But really it kind of a pretty interesting beer, a melding of both the styles. This is made of Boulevard, which is in Kansas City, Missouri. Boulevard is actually now owned by Duvel. So a family owned Belgian brewery, which now has become a family of breweries in and of itself. Unlike some kind of big conglomerates that are eating up smaller breweries, Duvel seems to be almost like buying things to save them to some degrees. They purchased Leifmans, which was literally like on its last legs, a producer that makes beautiful wild sour ales. Gudenband. Yeah, Gudenband is a great beer. Boulevard wasn't without some struggles at times, but they were a perfect fit because their old brewmaster was Belgian. And they're famous for brewing some beautifully made Belgian styles. So they make a great quad that we've talked about called the Six Glass. They had a good triple that I'm hoping they bring back someday. But Boulevard flies under the radar. I think their packaging probably is in need of a bit of a refresh. They look a little folksy. They're not like the cool kid comic book brewery. But the liquid has always been phenomenal from them. And the value has always been tremendous. So take a minute and look at Boulevard's brews because there's a lot of interesting creative beers there. Can I say, well, this one immediately comes across as a modern American beer brand. Underneath the flash at down in the grain is that same like Clovey Spicy Complexity. Yes. It's built on the same platform. Yeah. It's a really nice iteration and twist on the style without being too over the top. I think they've done a beautiful job here. What's the alcohol in that one? 8.5. Hello. Comes in a six pack for $15.99. A bag for your buck. Right. It's a cluster bomb for your buck. Is this one? This one is called an American Saison? Yeah. They've kind of called it a couple of different things. I think they started out with Farmhouse Ale and like I said, some customers were confused by that because they would equate Farmhouse with funk. I even thought Farmhouse meant Lower and Elk, so you could have one for lunch and then get back to work. No, Greg. Yeah. Not really, but there is some truth to that. I skipped over when we were talking about Saisons. The word means season and it comes from the tradition of brewing beer for the workers. I guess maybe since it's Belgium and they just drink from morning till night, six and a half was not strong per se. But yeah, I think some Saisons could be lower and if they're brewing them to still work, yeah, they're probably like around five. But farmhouse is more just akin to that each, there's still some rustic nature to it. They might be incorporating some local grain that they grow, something besides just barley. They might be putting some wheat or rye or spelt or, and the yeast strains might not be like clean, clean, but not necessarily Britannomyces. It's hard to think about a farmhouse without thinking about a farm, and it's hard to think about a farm without thinking about livestock, and it's hard to think about livestock without thinking about the scent of livestock. I know. Well, one of the only beers left that we can't get is Spotted Cow from New Glarus, and they started out calling that a farmhouse sale, and they don't really do that anymore either for the same thing, I think. That's a cream ale. If you want funk in a saison, we're finally starting to see saison brett again from Boulevard, and it comes in single bottles, and that is an excellent example of a funky saison. So very brett forward. 24:51 Blonde Ales Duvel Okay, so let's go head back to Belgium here. This is another one that is an excellent value. This is Lef Blonde Ale. This, when we were talking about the dish of steamed mussels, if you're looking at the price point on some of these beers and you're like, really? I'm gonna just steam something in this beer? These beers aren't cheap. This beer is extremely affordable. This comes in six packs. A six pack is only 11.99. It is fantastic with mussels, and you use it as the steaming liquid. You had mentioned before that you're picking up some kind of banana esters. That's a very common aspect of some yeast strains that produce that isoamyl acetate chemical. You also find that in white spears, have a license. I definitely get some of that here. 6.6, so similar in strength to the saison, but a little more body here and a little more sweetness than the saison dupont. Yeah, for sure. And this is a pretty ubiquitous beer too. You see this on tap in a lot of places. It's a banana bread. Yeah. Yeah, they crush this over there. And it used to be a little more common over here. You're not seeing it quite as much, which is kind of strange because it is a bigger backer now. This is AB Imbev owned, but they're still making it in the traditional way. They're not making it stateside or cutting any corners. So let's keep our fingers crossed that they kind of leave this iconic beer the way it is. It is bottle conditioned. You see that nice, generous head of foam. It's got a little spice. It has kind of a honeyed character that I really like, kind of like banana bread with some honey on it, but just kind of like a good all purpose, very crowd friendly beer. And again, like a must try with mussels. Here's a question for you. The label says Abbey Ale. What does that mean? I'm glad you asked. Roger did not prep us with these questions. We don't have inquiring minds. It's the perfect sub-segue. So Belgium in particular is pretty synonymous with monastic brewing. So different monasteries would craft different things to raise money for the support of the monastery. And then if there was extra money, they would usually donate it to charities in the local community. One particular order of monastery really became associated with their brewing acumen, and that's the Trappist order. So later on, we're going to try some Trappist beers. But other monasteries also were kind of famous for it. Then as people wanted to kind of dip their toes in the popularity of like, oh, people are starting to learn that monks make good beer. They would sometimes craft beers in the Abbey style. So it just kind of became a thing where we would, you know, allude to the Abbey brewing process, even though we weren't essentially officially associated with an Abbey. So Leffe originally was, but no longer is. I think they might still donate a little bit of money to the Abbey, but the heritage of the brand is very much there. Can you imagine the other, like, unsuccessful fundraising methods for the monks? They're like, what are you doing? Oh, we make leather crafts. What do you make, throw pillows? And this guy can do a really fun caricature of you while you're sit at the festival. Something with beads, maybe? For years, there was no American Trappist brewery. So then there was one for a very small window, and then it- Yeah, Spencer, and it's closed now. But then I'm like, all right, well, I know there's a few Trappist monasteries in the US. I'm like, what do they make? And the biggest one makes coffins. Whoa. I think it might be in Iowa, too. Buy a coffin, get closer to the Lord. Yeah. So you got to make something. They're also famous for making cheese. Yeah, I was going to say, plenty make cheese. Yeah. Chimay, you can find sometimes. Ice cream. I bet they make ice cream. I bet they do. Also, Chardreuse comes from monks. Sure does. Yes, the Benedictine Order is famous for making liqueurs as well. Yeah. The history of alcohol is quite intertwined with Christianity. All right. Up next, we go from a Blondale with a Demure amount of alcohol to a little dance with the devil. In the pale moonlight? This next one is one of the, we've definitely mentioned this on the podcast quite a few times. This is Duvel. Duvel means devil. Some different theories as to why they named it that. One story I enjoy is that someone drank it and proclaimed why that's a devil of a good beer. Well, that's dumb. Times were different in the past. Simpler times. This would have been 60 years ago at this point. But this beer started as a beer called Victory Ale that was actually brewed to celebrate the end of World War I. And for many years, it was dark. But it was reformulated to be the iconic pale beer that it is now as a reaction to those damn kids. Pilsners were the trending thing, hot in the pre-Instagram era. And all these breweries that were making dark beers, those were the old people things. And we don't want to drink what our parents drink. We want to drink these new crystal sparkling colored beers. Because pale malt in general is a relatively new modern thing. But in the 1960s in particular, the paler beers really took off. And that's when Duvel came into its own. And the other thing here, and this is why I think this beer has become so synonymous with the devil, is that this beer is 8.5% alcohol. And so light in body. That's why. So drinkable. That is why. That is why. Yes. Yes. Correct. They can make up all kinds of cute stories. It's because it makes you act like an a**. You can taste that percentage, though, I think. Yeah. A little bit more maybe just compared to the last few. But. Because there's so little else in the way. Yeah. Because it's so light and fresh otherwise. It's a gorgeous beer. I love this beer. I think one of the things that's worth mentioning with this beer is that, again, this is where you talk about the American versions versus the classic. The true magic to this beer is a little brewing trick, which is to brew a sugar. So sometimes when we think of you're using an adjunct, it was like a shortcut or to save money. The Belgians weren't brewing with sugar in a beer like this to cut a corner or save any money. It's actually very purposeful. It's that the sugar will completely ferment out and it will just boost the alcohol. You end up with a big beer with a much leaner body, and then that makes a beer that they like to call digestible. So it's like the kind of thing that you can keep drinking more of since you're in Belgium. So the food's awesome, the beer's awesome, you want to drink more and more of it and eat more. So a beer like this is going to allow you to do that. Whereas I've had some American interpretations of this where they either don't use any sugar or they're just not well fermented enough. Where they're heavy, they're sweeter. They just don't... This beer is almost like a melding of a blond ale and a pilsner. Like it has some hop character, it's balanced. It's dangerously drinkable because of that balance and because of the levity of its body. You said your noble hops right on the nose. Yeah, Saz or hops, right? Just like... Yeah. Yeah, it has that quality. Another unrelated question. Are we going to talk about candy sugar today? We sure are. Okay, cool. When you said sugar, that was the first thing that came to my mind. Yeah. When we get to the quad in particular. Yeah. A previous episode, Get Your Glass In Gear, we studied the merits of different beer glassware and the Duvel Chalice is one of the most iconic beer glasses, a beautiful drinking vessel for just about any beer, but it accommodates these giant volumes of foam. And when you're asking about bottles versus cans, recently they were going to try to can Duvel and the cans just kept exploding because this is one of the most heavily carbonated. When you hold that bottle, this thing's like a grenade. It's very heavy and it produces, you know, we're drinking these out of wine stemware, but I mean, the foam shoots right up to the top. So when you see a Duvel Chalice, it looks like it's too big, but that's purposeful. It's to accommodate all that foam. It's one of the great pleasures of the beer, big, stark white rocky head. All right, Roger poured it fresh out of the bottle, and he had two parts foam to one part liquid. And now, however long we've been talking, there is still a glop of Foamberg floating on the top. Yeah. And that's in a beer that I... Great head retention. In a glass that we've been reusing, so it's not even in a cleaner glass. It's not a beer clean glass. Right. It would be even beautiful, just massive head retention. Look at that Belgian lace. So there's that big football tournament coming up. I think you guys are going to kick out of this. So everybody's trying to cash in on the World Cup, even though there's only a couple brands that are official sponsors, but other people are making soccer-themed things. So there's a Duvel gift set that's coming out, and you need to look closer because it would appear to be Duvel, which 8.5 to sit around watching a soccer game, which is kind of a long thing. Four-hour game. They do you one even better. This is a new Duvel. It's an Imperial one. Oh my God. That's even stronger. It's 10%. What does it look like? It comes in a mixed pack of one bottle. Comes in a four-pack with the glass. You're getting the glass for free. It's the same price as normal Duvel. Oh my God. I'm going to have to buy some. Amazing. You do. Let the hooliganism ensue. So keep an eye out for that. Duvel comes in 750s for $13.99. You can get four packs for $19.99. Then we sometimes have them on sale as well. So again, a beautiful beer, a must try, a desert island beer. Now, an Intermezzo. All right, Lexi, are you a fan of balsamic vinegar? 35:09 Flemish Red Ale I was going to say, this smells crazy, yes. And when we talk about food and beer pairing, always look for synergistic flavors, and we are entering the funk portion of the program. This is a Flemish Red Ale, which were dubbed the Burgundy of Belgium, in part because of their wine-like character and their acidity, which comes from being aged in large oak barrels called fooders, which are also used in the wine industry. And sometimes breweries, especially here in the States, will use reclaimed wine fooders for this practice. You can see them in action at Off Color Brewing, at their Mousetrap Brewery. The magic behind this beer is that in that oak lies a mixture of wild yeast and bacteria. So things like Britannomyasis, Lactobacillus, Acetobacter, Piedococcus. And it's like a perfect microcosm of this wonderful world of symbiotic things that all are working in tandem to kind of eat simple sugars that, and then sugars that other things can't digest. And some of the byproducts, you get acids, you get this lactic acid that we equate with things like sauerkraut and yogurt. You get acetic acid, which is going to give you that vinegary note, but- Some of that's from like second order fermentation too, right? Yeah. Like it's not just the primary fermentation, but then more yeast comes and eats the stuff that the other yeast left behind. Yeah, and that's like- It's kind of gross if you think about it. It can get real gross, Greg. I think we've mentioned this on some episode. The pediococcus can make up your ropey. Which is literally like slimy, like it leaves tendrils on your fingertips. It's pretty gross. It's revolting and Britannomyasis though can come in, eat all that up and then completely changes. Takes all the weird flavor away, takes the viscosity away. Just magic. Yeah. So when Americans were like, hey, we like these things, we can do this, right? They all just started buying fooders and worse yet, just putting it in like urban barrels and wine barrels where the volume to wood ratio is completely different. In big warehouse rooms with a bunch of other oak barrels. Yeah. Very, very poor. It was a show and we're all reaping the effects to this day. So these styles are some of the most interesting in the world, but they're disappearing by the minute because of a lot of misinterpretation of the style and examples. So when in doubt, revisit the classics to see how beautiful they can be. One such being Duchesse de Bourgogne. Indeed. This is a blend of different ages. So that's another thing that when small producers are doing these, they don't necessarily have a whole room full of fooders of different beer of different ages. But that's one of the ways that you get a beautiful beer of the style is, this is a blend of eight-month-old beer and 18-month-old beer. This is how you dial in that sweet sour balance. This is a gorgeous beer. I've always liked this style and I used to on regular braise things in this beer because of its being the Burgundy of Belgium. It's fantastic if you're trying to make a stew or something like that. Absolute must try cooking with this. Beef Carbonade, a national dish of Belgium. Think like beef stew. But instead of using a wine, you're using something like this. You could use a beer like a quad, which we'll be tasting later. But to Chris's point, braising liquid for anything, even if you don't want to do meat, if you want to do like Portobello's. Sure. It's just such a delicious beer to cook with. It just brings so much complexity. It's one of the few beers that will bring that acidic lift like wine does to a dish. Cut through the fattiness, like we just mentioned, these richer things like short ribs or game meats like goose duck. Every Thanksgiving for the last decade, we've been trying to do like beer pairings of Flemish Red Ales, the perfect pairing. It's like the cranberry sauce of the beer world, that bright fruity and fruitiness, that acidity works with like everything on the table. Yeah, let's just point out, this is very fruity without fruit. Okay, so Roger's gonna kill me. It smells like balsamic vinegar, you're right. Yeah. It tastes like cherries stuffed with pennies with just a drizzle of nail polish remover. Yeah, that's not too far off. I won't get quite as much of that metallic note as you're saying, but I understand where you're coming from. I also think it can get really solventy. I think this to me is subtle. It's more on like the balsamic, not pure solvent. We're also drinking this without any food, and I would say that like if you're just jumping into the pool with this, like take the steps by trying it with food as opposed to just clean palate. Yeah, we should get some chips. I mean, this really is the kind of beer you want with food because it, especially something that's fatty like cheeses, charcuterie. This is a charcuterie kind of beer. Then again, some of those more austere notes, let's call them, wouldn't necessarily be as pronounced when you are pairing this with that. Okay. Let's see what we think. Is this the same style of beer as Rodenbach? Yes. Nice job. I drink that fairly frequently. Ding, ding, ding. Awesome. One of my favorite quote girl dinners, if you will, is a Rodenbach or three and hand cut fries from the bar next door. Awesome. I am so down with girl dinner. And maybe a little malt vinegar. Oh, yeah. Malt vinegar or malt liquor? Vinegar. But I mean. Yeah. Okay, cool. That's why it's familiar. That's why it's familiar. 40 of Mickey's. Ew. No, I love that. Yeah, that's absolutely something that, yeah, again, like this, the whole moufrit thing, like French fries with all, yeah, any of that. Truffle fries. Sign me up. With the pungency here, the truffle fries would stand up to truffles. It would be good. Totally. With some parm on there too. Sometimes they say, oh, in Belgium, they frites with fries with mayonnaise. Well, it's more like an aioli. So like a really garlicky, lemony aioli with this beer will enhance the already lemony acidity that's there. The garlic works with the balsamic notes, like great fish and chip beer if you enjoy fish and chips. What was this one called again? Duchesse De Bourgogne. This comes in single bottles, 750s, the big boys. It also comes in four packs, which is how we're enjoying it. Definitely check this one out. Cracking a 750 of this at a BYO restaurant is a power move. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, don't contain yourself to wine at BYOBs. If you have a fine Belgian beer, excellent choice. I had mentioned Trappist earlier. 42:24 Trappist Ales We were going to enter the Trappist part of the program. Trappist Ales, they for a while didn't necessarily carry a seal, so people were throwing the word around, especially if they were just Tarantino-ing it. We're paying homage. We're not trying to copy it. But they actually created an authentic Trappist product logo, and there's some rules that apply now. All the products have to be made within the intermediate surroundings of the Abbey. Production must be carried out under the supervision of monks or nuns. So again, this isn't like always a million monks making this. There might be a token monk in the background and some lay people. But one of the things that they really want to get across here is that profits are intended for the needs of the monastic community. So they're not making this to make money. They're doing it to provide for their daily consumption. They usually brew a weaker beer that's around like 4 percent, is what they're eating with me, drinking with meals. Then they're selling this other beer just for the upkeep of the monastery, some of which are hundreds of years old and need a lot of work to keep them up. Then they donate anything else to charity for the local community. Also, as Thomas Jefferson said, they're proving God loves us. Yeah, cannot be good living where there's not good drinking. So, the Belgian Trappist breweries are West Mall, Chimay, Rochefort, Orval, and West Waterin. The last being the only one you can't get here in the US. We have some excellent alternatives, one being Rochefort. We're going to taste that in a few minutes. We're going to start things off with Chimay, which is perhaps the most well-known of the Trappist breweries. I don't know if you guys have seen this yet. Chimay is actually available in cans. How about that? Hey. Watch as you open it. Part of the hesitancy is why they didn't come in cans sooner. This one's not as lively. They might gush a teeny bit, but this is actually in pretty good shape. That's the white. Do they have the red, white, and blue in cans? They have white and red so far. I don't think blue is available in cans yet. But that's the fancy version. TBD. As we pass this, can I let you know that this caused some absolute confusion in my mind when I found out about Chimoy? I can see that. Very similar sounding. You put what on the rim of the glass? Chimay, it took a while for Trappist Beers to make it over here and for a while, Chimay was the standard bearer of the monastic Belgian beers. It was primarily available in these big 750s with the Cork and Cage, which still are available and make great gifts around the holidays. They're great to bring to dinners, as we said, great for BYOB, great for getting together with friends. It's something that you can keep on the table like a bottle of wine. If you would like for it to be a little lighter, more potable, Belgian beer is suffering from the fact that it's not cheap to import things and they're suffering from tariffs and everything else. So any way that they can find to reduce costs, cans weigh a lot less, so you're saving quite a bit from a weight standpoint and from a manufacturing standpoint. It's a lot cheaper to make a can than a Chimay 11.2oz bottle weighs a substantial amount. So they're probably not can condition quite as heavily as their bottle condition, but I'll let you taste this. It's still, I think, an excellent example of reflection of the beer. This is a Belgian style triple. So we started out with a triple versus a double because I like to go light to dark. This is one of those kind of like with the, when I joke about the cocktails have like, they have no agreement on how the origin story, no one agrees on what a double triple quad like. Why are they called that and what's this all about? The theory that I think makes the most sense in the one sentence answer is it's about strength. So the beer that the monks are making for themselves, that would be like a single. So that would be a paiter's beer or a father's beer for the monks. Then if you make it, you know, something stronger that they would be, you know, for a celebratory reason or to sell to the public that, you know, the monks aren't supposed to get drunk, so they don't want anything strong. But the lay people can do as they please. So if you made a stronger one, that birth the double style. So it's like almost double the strength of what the monks would be drinking on a daily basis. Then triple, it's like, you know, it's not triple strength. It's also not dark. It's kind of a reflection of that beer. Belgian beer is having a bit of an identity crisis because they were losing out to lighter beers. So triple is kind of just like a tweaking of the double style to make it lighter in color. More hop forward usually. Yeah. They've really fallen into that kind of category where doubles and quads are generally dark, and the triple is the light beer. Exactly. Quad is the easiest to map. You can just turn your mind around, because it's not four times the strength, but it is like a double on steroids. So if you like the flavor and aroma of a double, the quad is like that. Spinal tapped up to 11. And we're even going to try one that is 11% too. So anyway, back to triples. We've talked about triples on the podcast before. Great beer style. Kind of one of the things I really fell in love with within the Belgian beer category. Another one that plays a trick on you, because it's quite boozy, but it kind of hides its heft a little bit. This is 8% ABV. It was first released in 1966. So even though the Abbey's from the 1850s, this is a relatively modern beer by Belgian standards. But to Chris's point, there's probably more hop character here than any of the Trappists would be in the triple style. It does have a freshness. And I mean, it's obviously a big beer and a little bit sweet. But I think the hops give it a pretty good spine. Yes, definitely. Totally agree. This does taste like a particularly fresh example. Like, as we were saying earlier, the bottle condition beers are ripe for aging. So I've aged plenty of Chimay Grand Reserve over my lifetime. 750 Cork and Cage, it's the way to go. Absolutely. And people usually do the Grand Reserve, which would be the blue. So these styles that we're going to be trying the double, triple quad, sometimes they just go by colors. So it's not like standardized, but a lot of people put like their really heavy dark one, like a quad and a blue packaging, triples and like light yellow or white, and then doubles in red or maroon. Yeah. And as we'll see shortly, we get sometimes degrees of Plato. Indeed, which I tried to explain today to Anna, didn't do the best job because it's super math nerdy, complicated. So if you want to try to do that, we can, but I just noticed that you were going to pour some Rochefort, which I love. Couple of last things about Chimay White. So it is available in several formats now, small bottles, big bottles, cans. Another thing worth noting is that Chimay has been around for a really long time, but they're also very modern in their sense of quality control and lab. So even though this seemingly is very old school in one regard, they also are very advanced when it comes to the science side of things. So they have to make sure to take really good care of their yeast and keep their yeast clean. The yeast again is such an important part of these beers. I really love the honey character to this beer and how it melds with the breadiness of the malt. But it's a cool beer and again, a great food beer pairs with all sorts of stuff. I feel like when I see these Belgian beer, I think of something probably what's coming up. But this is to me not scary. It's not like a big, I feel like they have such older designs and labels and whatnot. So people think that it's this big scary beer and this is not, I think that the Flemish is actually a little bit more intense than this guy. For sure. Yeah. Again, there's so much within this category that I know it makes your head spin. So if this isn't something that you have a friend that's into it or something, like you might not know where to start. So hopefully, drink along with us, try some of these and this will give you like a sense of what to expect. This one again, we've almost talked to death on the program, so we're going to blast through this one. I was going to say this is the second most talked about beer. You know what though, despite Sapporo's best efforts to kill this brand, it's still alive. So I'm going to keep talking about it until they sell it or kill it. Unibrew is one of the best portfolios in beer, and it's an absolute travesty that the only beer left from them here in the US is left in Dumond, but it is the last man standing here at the precipice. It's still a gorgeous beer at an amazing price. Belgian Triple Style made in Quebec. The Unibrew brewery is I think right there with some of the best Belgian breweries. They brought some of the first bottle condition beers here in North America. This beer was introduced in 1994, so it's been around for a while, but it's available in bottles or cans. The cans are one of the best deals on the shelf. It's like $12.99, something crazy. You know, we keep saying these beers are good to cook with. And if you're like, well, they're not that cheap. This is a perfect way to call us at our word and try cooking with this. It's very affordable, but flavor wise, still just quite a beer. Yeah. Fantastic brewery and always food centric. They had a restaurant called 4K Fourchette where they cooked and served the beers together. They had one in Montreal and at the brewery, I think, and fantastic. Very cool. Go Expos. Yeah. Go Expos. Your honeyed style is really pronounced here. It seems even broader than the one before. And the cloves are back. Glad you brought that up. They made a beer actually a while ago. That was a beer to meal, so like literally a honey beer. And they went into that charming story about the origins of the word honeymoon and the theory that it was that you served like a honey wine on someone's honeymoon or for the first month of their marriage. Something like that. Anyway, good call. There's coriander here, too, for sure. Yes. They've always been super dialed into the culinary aspect of their beer. So if you visit their website, they have some nice like recipe pairing, food and beer pairing, and some like how to cook with their beers. All right, now we're going to go backwards and try a double, so that we can try a double followed by a quad. All right, this is from West Mall, one of the most iconic Trappist breweries, the originators of the double and triple style. This beer is all about the yeast. West Mall's yeast is super famous, and they are also one of the most technically proficient of the Trappist breweries, arguably the most. Chimay might argue with that. It's a friendly quarrel. West Mall's definitely helped some breweries. When they put that Trappist logo and said that there were rules, the West of Lateran monks went, uh-oh, you mean we have to start making beer? They had been making all their beer under contract at what is now the St. Bernardist brewery. A case in point of Abbey versus Trappist. Right. If you're bummed that you can't get West of Lateran, all these St. Bernardist beers are the OG West of Lateran yeast and recipes. The ones that are brewed now at the West of Lateran Trappist Monastery actually use the West Mall yeast and were with the help of the West Mall brewers to essentially teach a new generation of people how to brew. I think West Mall again is very, whereas West of Lateran for years when rate beer was a thing and beer advocate was like the beer that no one could get and wanted, number one beer in the world, between West Mall, Chimay and Rochefort you have and even secular ones like St. Bernardus you have a lot of incredible beers that are very much on point. St. Bernardus is the secular one. Yeah. Right. They're the ones who brew for a West veteran. And it's just the caricature of a monk instead of anything. He's a cartoon monk. Yeah. This was the happy monk that was happy didn't have to make the beer. This West Mall though, this Abbey's been around since 1836. So this is essentially that stronger take on the beer that they would drink. The uncle, the father's beer that they drink at the table every day with meal. It is bottle conditioned. Part of why I'm so obsessed with this beer is that I think there's this pervasive misconception that dark beers are heavy. And I think this is such a good example of like a beer that's dark in color, but is so light, like pillowy light because of the bottle conditioning. And it's just so well fermented. They didn't leave a ton of residual sugar. So like people may think, oh, this is this is going to be heavy or sweet or both. And it's neither gorgeous, wildly complex. Yeah. On the nose, I'm picking up like the smell of a brewery with dark roasted malts, like it has that like cocoa kind of quality. And then, I mean, it's like this is banana bread and cloves. This is banana. But also like some, this is the all my old man dreams rolled in one. Like the figs, the dates, like, you know, pick of raisins, brandied raisins. There's a Roncio quality here, an oxidized quality. And then, I don't know, it was like a higher toned smell that I kind of associate with like sautern, like a noble rot smell. Sure. You know what I'm talking about? There's like an apricot thing that I pick up in like sherry's that's kind of here. And then it's just fluffy. Yeah. It's a beautiful beer. It is a beautiful beer. So good. Lexi, is this what you're scared of? No. No, you guys, not here. Visually, yes. It's so easy drinking, isn't it? Yeah. As a stout enthusiast, yes, this is actually still what I'm scared of. You're right. Visually, it's dark brown and it's hazy too. Yeah. But it's not that. There's nothing to be scared of. No. How are you a stout enthusiast and you hop right over these styles? I don't know. I grew up in Michigan where every stout is flavor blasted. That's just it. These guys started drinking beer, flavored beer, as they started drinking beer. I started drinking wheat beer. You started when beer was like an adult version of children's beverages. Like most pilsners and lagers and stuff don't taste good to me because it has these weird off-putting flavors that I never grew into, so I was never forced to drink them until Roger came into my life. Thank you, Roger. Well, I think some of this what happened too is that for years, if you decided you wanted to get into beer and you might buy a book, the books are always focused on like, okay, what are the most iconic examples? Whether or not you want to say, you use words like best, but like here are these world class things that a brewery that's been open for a really long time and lauded, be it in official awards or just people that swear by these beers. You felt the need if you were like, I'm going to learn about beer. Of course, I have to go try this. People would just as almost like a rite of passage like, oh, have you had Trappist beers? People wouldn't consider themselves like a beer nerd or a beer fan. If you didn't, you just would never pass these up. Then, unfortunately, that's not the case at all now. Nobody reads and they have social media. It's the opposite thing. Nobody goes to the root of the matter. They're all skipping around on the brew of the week. My experience is exactly as Roger describes it, the great beer enthusiast Michael Jackson was my guiding light for beer writing and led me directly to the great beers of the world. You can watch. People have uploaded in VHS quality too, which is especially hilarious on YouTube, the old Michael Jackson, Beer Hunter. They're amazing. Definitely, if you want to geek out and try some of these styles, go on YouTube and watch Michael Jackson. He was truly passionate about Belgian beer and they owe a dept of being the influencer of his time. I mean, some of these styles didn't really have names. It's one of these things where he debatably coined Flemish Red Ale just because the people there were like, well, this is just the beer we drink. Right. He's like, well, I can't talk about the beer you drink if we don't call it something. So he really was truly an advocate. And the Gutenband that we mentioned earlier would be a Flemish Brown. Yeah. Whoa. Even over there, they're kind of trying to just get rid of the distinction between the two. I think that's sadly how bad things are getting. They're like just red brown, like, don't worry about it. West Mall is available in single bottles only. So you can either get a 750 or 11.2 for either 14.99 for the big boy or 6.99 for the 11.2. Absolutely fantastic. It's been a while since I've had that one. And I just I'm regretting my life choices now. And if you're paralyzed by choice, and unfortunately, I think one of the reasons more people don't know about the next beer is that it comes in one format, a single 11.2 ounce bottle. And it's expensive. And it's not cheap. It's worth it. It's 7.99 a bottle, but this truly has held its own even in, you know, wine magazines, they've raved about, you know, how complex and amazing this beer is. Talk about your figs and branding fruits. It's not even in the glass yet. I know, I'm like, let's go, let's go. It's not like I haven't had it before. Again, this, as Chris mentioned, if you were curious about what bottle conditioning and aging could do, this is an excellent candidate for this. I've aged this beer before, believe it or not. You need to just find somewhere you can put it and not look at it. I've had 10-year-old bottles of this that are phenomenal, and they do get a little drier and the flavors change, but even fresh, now mind you, when we say fresh, this has already been aged in the bottle for several months before it even leaves the country of Belgium, so by the time you get this in the US, it's probably several months old, just, and that's a good thing. This thing has really long legs. It is a quadruple style, so again, this is the most big celebratory of the Trappist styles, 11.4% ABV. Yeah. Fig Newton beer. It's figgy, it's rich, it's sweet, malty, delightful. It's a lot. It's a lot. But I don't think in a bad way. Yeah. These are the beers I'm scared of. You never want to try it on your own, and then you do, and you're like, wait, it's pretty good actually. Right. Here's the problem. The first time you try it, you're like, this is pretty good. Can I get another example? Then you've had six of them. You're like, I got to work. This is a beautiful nightcap beer in my opinion, by the fire. I think what I'm used to having tried so many US really big extreme beers, it's usually things like Imperial Stouts that are over 10 percent, and they're like motor oil, like just viscous, which they can have a luxurious mouthfeel in a way, but it's Sure is. This is just like pillowy. It says with a glee. This is just like, it's like a pillow of bubbles that just races across your tongue, and it's like- This humongous beer that's still graceful and delicate. Yeah. I think that's kind of the true magic of a beer style like this, is that huge big character yet so soft and plush and- The smell that I get, it's not just sautern, it's in here too. It's like blue cheese. It's just like a specific kind of high-toned funk. It's not too chemical, it's not unpleasant. It adds like a charm, but it's in there, just woven in there. I bet it could be some of the phenols from the yeast. That's probably- I mean, this beer is just oozing yeasty esters and phenols. I mean, there's no two ways about it. You had asked about candy sugar. Candy sugar for Belgian brewers is used not just for the alcohol potential, like as a levity type thing, it's highly, highly caramelized. It can either be in rock form or it can be in caramel, pourable form. Some of the deeply, deeply caramelized character in this beer is from the use of that too. And it's not shy on the bittering hops. I mean, they really come in and provide great balance. That's part of what's keeping it light on its feet too, because it could get heavier. I mean, the effervescence and the way that the yeast totally cleaned it out, like that's part of it. But yeah, that it has like balance and flavors. I would just double down on the quality of the carbonation in these beers. Just such a fine bead from the bottle conditioning, it makes the mouth feel almost more silky and beautiful, because the carbon dioxide is so well dissolved and the bubbles are microscopic. OK, on the flip side, my glass is getting kind of sticky. Yeah. I also note it's empty. Oh, yeah. Two pairings I want to mention with this. If I can make a homework assignment for this episode, it would be that you have to try this beer, and you have to have it with a fruit plate with cheese. Yeah. So this combined, if you're struggling to remember this name, think Rochefort Cheese. Because of this, you have to try with blue cheese. You have to try it with dates. You should stuff some of the blue cheese into the dates. You should try it with figs, apricots, all the dried fruits. It's just such an amazing pairing. The other pairing, brownies. The old school, I want you to make the OG recipe with the apricot jam, and the walnuts on top. Chicago classic. Walnuts on a brownie. Born right here in Chicago for the World's Fair. No, the apricot. This is the original brownie. Palmer House, right? Perfect pairing. Lexi, nailed it. Love it. Look at me go. I know. I learned that on Instagram. I have an extra bottle that I bet if you twist his arm, this gentleman might make them and you can do a video. Yeah. Do a little pairing action. Okay, we've made it to the final beer. 1:06:12 Lambic Dessert Beer We're going to conclude with dessert. This is from Lindemans. This is a lambic. So this is lambic and is the most old school of beer styles. Most of the time at a brewery, they're pitching yeast. It's a very controlled process. They want to avoid any kind of wild yeast or bacteria that would be viewed as spoilers. In the lambic tradition, quite the opposite. This is truly sometimes referred to as wild or spontaneous fermentation because the beer is fermented from whatever is floating in the air at the time. Which again, this is made at a 6th generation family owned and operated brewery that's in a agricultural area. So that is the kind of place you want your spontaneously fermented beer from. Here in the States, a lot of little breweries popped up and were like, hey, we can do this. And let's just give it a go. And they met with very mixed results. So at one point, Lambic was in danger of ceasing to exist in Belgium. And it was Lindemans that kept it alive. And sadly, it's in kind of in danger again. Our selection of Lambic continues to shrink. So it's been really hard to watch that happen. So I really hope that people give this style a try. There's lots of different varieties here. Lindemans makes the most authentic kind of old school examples in a product like Cuvée Renée. It's a blended Lambic of different years. No sweetness added to it, no sugars, no adjustment. It's still just funky and sour. But what kept the company alive, what kept the style alive is the type of Lambic that we're going to try. Yeah, this is the savior because who would not like this? I'm very excited. Gorgeously fruity and sweet. Funky. Yeah. Well, we'll see. When they would serve these in cafes, sometimes you would have the option to add some syrup or sugar cubes to your Lambic. If it was too sour, too tart, you could adjust it to your liking and the syrups are usually flavored with something. Raspberries were plentiful, sour cherries were plentiful, so they would often make syrups of that. The Lambic producers started to realize they could start making their Lambics with the local fruit. Raspberry went by Framboise, French word for raspberry, and cherries went by the name Crique. Of the Lindemans portfolio, they make several different fruit and Lambics, strawberry, raspberry, apple, pear, peach. Raspberry has become the most iconic and in part because of this gorgeous color with the pink foam. I mean, it just exudes raspberry jam on the nose. It's so good. It's really, I don't know if you know this about me. I grew up with raspberries in the backyard and this takes me to the Versh household in the late 80s, getting stung by a wasp while I'm trying to figure out. Eating some sun-warmed raspberries. Yeah. This really does put you in a place because the fresh raspberry character, it's incredible, it captured in a moment in time. It's so authentic. It's so authentic. And yeah, there's a syrup quality too, just like the fresh raspberries are way more tart than we all think about because of stupid blue raspberry flavoring. And like when you eat them fresh, like they're always a little bit sour, and these tiny little berries and tiny little tannins in the skins. So it's like this really complex thing, and this is just joyful, fresh raspberry. And yeah, to your point, there's sweetness there too, but in kind of the way that a lemonade is an irresistible thing. Like sweetness and acidity can be one of the most desirable combos that exists. And whereas sometimes the beer geeks say that these are too sweet, like there's sweetness and acidity here. This is not cloying, this is not all sweet by any means. So again, like I'll geek out and I'll drink the ones that are super sour with no added sugar, but I think there's room at the table for both. There's times when you want both. I love the Cuvée Renée, it's hardcore, it's old school, but this is joy in a glass. There's no two ways about it, it's just beautiful. I admit to rolling my eyes when I come across these bottles, like, yeah, here's a Training Wheels one, but I got to stop being such a cynic. Yeah, you do. I mean, the balance here is just incredible. Yeah, like Roger was saying, it's sweet but the tartness is just perfection in a raspberry beer. So, Lexi, you've been talking about your passion for making ice cream. This is a must try with ice cream. That was my first thought. It's great with cheesecake. You can put it, serve it with any chocolate dessert you can dream of. At Valentine's Day, it's great with chocolate, like box chocolate truffles. People even have been known to add a little of this to stouts. That can be a fun combination. People import this, import that Sam Smith chocolate stout, so they're always trying to encourage that. There's a beer from Omegaine called Three Philosophers, that's a Belgian style quad with some creak added to it. You could even put a splash of this in a quad. Versatile beer, delicious on its own, fun to blend with, great for food and beer pairing. Check this out, it is available in these cute little bottles, 8.5 ounce bottles and four packs. That's not what you want. Or you want this nice, handsome 750, makes a great thing to bring over for an after-dinner drink. Totally. Oh, I forgot one last thing. You should try this with Belgian waffles. It's also pretty darn good with some homemade whipped cream. What makes it a Belgian waffle? I don't know. Thick, fluffy, kind of think like a pancake with a teeny bit of crispness on it. That's what I grew up with. Okay. Yeah, yeah. I'm with you. Folks, that is our Tour de Belgium. What a range of flavors that we've had today. Everything goes with food, but it's been light and soft and plush and bright and fresh, all the way to big, complex, heavy, but still light on its feet, to dessert, raspberry, everything. Yeah, and scratching the surface here. Modern hop profiles too, as well as classic noble hop profiles. I think we often forget that for people that are just turning 21 and are curious about beer, the world of beer, when people say they don't like beer, it's like saying you don't like food. You probably just haven't had a beer that you enjoy yet, but it's so varied. Even within just the country of Belgium, the scale, the breadth is breathtaking. Totally. There is so much more to be learned in the world of Belgian beer. If you have any questions about Belgian beer, send us one. We'll talk about it on the show. Share with us if you have one of these and enjoy it. I would love to hear that as well. That Michael Jackson book, The Great Beers of Belgium, is an iconic beer book, one of the best ones out there. Pick up an old dog-eared copy of that from somewhere. Wait, didn't you just pick it up on Amazon? I had to approve his ramp. That was a different Belgian book. Oh, sorry. That was a, you wait till I show you this thing. It's 700 pages. Well, we got our moneys worth of that. The pictures are beautiful. But yeah, it's really the translate. It clearly was written in Belgian though, so some of the translations are a bit funny, but it's a really interesting book. Cool. But anyway, thanks so much for listening to this episode of Barrel to Bottle. If you liked what you heard, please leave us a review, and definitely tell your friends and your family about our podcast, and share the good word. Until next time, I am Roger. I'm Greg. I'm Chris. And I'm Lexi. Keep tasting.