Welcome to another episode of Barrel to Bottle, The Binny's Podcast. I'm Chris, coming to you from Secret Location. I'm Alisha, I do wine. Hey, I'm Pat, I have better things to do. I'm Greg, I'm here so that Alisha and Chris can tell me my opinions are wrong. Oh, I can't wait. Now you're getting in the spirit of this podcast. You guys have both corrected me. I'm like, and violets, and they're like, no. Oh, that's not true. In so many of my classes, when people first start out in their wine education, I'm like, guys, no wrong answers. Just lay it on me. Anything you think you smell or taste. Occasionally, I do have to say, I'm sorry, but that is just completely wrong. Swing and a miss. Sit down. We'll come back to you next class. Anyway, so the theme for today's podcast, we've done this before, but it's if you like this. Try if you like. Try if you like. T-I-Y-L, try if you like. We have a lot of people coming to stores. They ask for a lot of the same wines kind of over and over and over again. And Josh Cab. Yes, Josh others Cabernet. But no, hopefully, you maybe want to get adventurous every now and again. And so we're going to help you do that today by tasting some pretty well known wines, whether it be the bridal or the region, you'll definitely recognize it and showing you an alternative that has similarities enough that you can make that jump. But hopefully, continues to kind of elevate your wine game, if you will, and move your palate into new and exciting things. Are we going to open that chubby Betts Cab again? Oh, you like that one, didn't you? Oh, that was one of the better wines I've had recently. Nice. Yeah, I've sold a couple since. Wow. All right. Referencing Bob Betts Cabernet from Washington State. I mean, how did you pull away from your ham sales? We're not going to open some other high end Napa Cab and the Betts again just because it was a good comparison. What are you guys doing when I'm not on the show? Tasting better. We feel like you put the brakes on all the high end stuff. When did I become the bad guy of the show? That's because we'll open a $207 bottle of wine for you and you'll say, this tastes like fart. Well, I wouldn't if it didn't taste like fart. Also buy us new mics and we'll invite you to the episodes with the good shit on it. Monday, Tuesday, they're here Tuesday. Anyway, we're not saying you're all stuck in a room. You're stuck in a rut, so we're going to give you some options. Yes. All right. So what's our first boring wine? So we're starting out with a very common request in the store, which is of course Chardonnay. Everybody loves their domestic Chardonnay. We're going to pour something called Foxglove Chardonnay. It's completely un-oaked, meaning aged in stainless steel, I think there's not even any neutral oak here. It's made by a very, very well-known Chardonnay maker and Pinot Noir maker called Varner. Varner. Oh, look at that. I'm going to point out that Greg is correct here. That's correct, Greg. Thanks, Chris. Do you know what Appalachian they're located in or AVA? Sonoma? No, it's one of those that's south of Paso. It's like Santa Lucia Highlands. Santa Barbara? First of all, Santa Lucia Highlands is north of Baselrobles. Why did you set me up to fail? You're going the wrong direction. Santa Cruz Mountains is where they're located, but this is a central coast wine in general. They're sourcing grapes not from their home vineyard site. It is pretty nice. It's very cold. It is cold. It's like creamsicle Chardonnay. It smells like that with a little bit more crisp fruit. Well, it's got a bit of a sourness in the finish. A lot of orchard fruit coming to the end in addition to some stone, but it is a high acid kind of crisp, refreshing Chardonnay. But it does have a certain creamy texture to it. So it's not all lean and linear. There's broad orchard fruit character, creaminess, and then that bright acid finish. If I remember, this isn't too expensive too. No, it's really reasonable. How much is it? 16.99. You guys started off with a slam dunk. This is fine. We don't need a recommendation. This is great. Yeah. We like this. Why do we want to drink soft drinks? The show's over, folks. Oh, man. It is a great value. Yes. Yes. Highly endorsed Foxglove Chardonnay, but you do need to switch it up every now and again. A lot of times, people start their wine journey in the United States, and they need a bridge to the old world. They need to figure out how to break into Europe and understand the complexities of it, but also some indigenous grape varieties that they wouldn't be familiar with otherwise. All right. I have a lot of friends coming over for Bridge Club, and they're all used to drinking their Chardonnay. I'm going to pull out something that's a little more interesting. You're going to trump them, trump their Chardonnay. Right. Thank you. Are you pigeonholing the average Chardonnay drinker? That was a little bit of a stereotype joke. I know it was lazy. I think he's pigeonholing the average bridge player. The Foxglove here definitely typifies the strong movement in California away from what was really the typical style, especially in the 80s and throughout the early 90s, where things were kind of overblown, blousy, high alcohol, loads of fruit, lower Yeah, that typical buttery Chardonnay. Yeah. Greg, you were called overblown and blousy once, weren't you? Yes. Yes, I was. I'm actually, I like your blouse today. Thank you. It does not yet have wine stains. Rather flattering on you. Sweat stains, check. Wine stains, not yet. I ate pizza and there's no pizza stains, so we're- This is a strong trend. Now, there are still obviously big buttery oaky chardonnays out of California, but a lot of people, and honestly, there always have been very, very minerally crisp chardonnays in California too. There are some old school producers that really clung to that style from early on. But the popularity trends are tacking way toward the cleaner, crisper, stainless steel fermented or neutral oak fermented style. Are you saying they can do more than one thing? Yeah, it's amazing. Chardonnay, honestly, if we're talking about chardonnay as a grave variety, it's one of those things where it is almost a blank slate and it's really, really a lot about manipulation by the winemaker. You know, you hear all these kind of fanciful stories or romantic stories about the wine making itself and the winemaker standing back and everything's done in the vineyard, right? And that's true for chardonnay. You have to have good vineyard site and you have to have, you know, the proper soils and temperature and everything. Although chardonnay can grow successfully in a broad range of temperatures. But once you get it into the winery, you have so many choices as to what you're going to do to manipulate the wine. Are you putting in a new oak? Are you going to stir the leaves? Are you not going to stir the leaves? Are you going to take it off the gross leaves? Whatever. And malolactic is a huge part of that. Whether you want to block the conversion of crisp, appley, malic acid from turning into that softer, creamier, lactic acid, or do you want to go all the way with that? Or do you want to hit it somewhere in between? Yeah. So, I mean, lots of options. And you can listen to our Chardonnay Podcast if you want to kind of dive into Chardonnay around the world. But this is definitely on trend right now with the Foxglove. But if this is something you like, and you are a Chardonnay drinker, and maybe even going to, maybe you do like a little bit of oak on the wine, we do want to now introduce you to a new region of the world and a new grape variety. The region Suave is Suave Classico, specifically here with this wine, and Garganega is the grape variety here. This is in Northeast Italy. Garganega? It's the bad guy's pet from He-Man, right? I was about to say that was totally a monster Godzilla font. So yeah, this is the indigenous grape variety here. This I think also has a little Trebbiano de Suave in it, which is historically an important grape here. Not to be confused with other Trebbianos, which can be relatively characterless. As Pat knows for sure, commonly used for distilling. Because it's not good for anything else. Yeah, highly neutral. Neutral, high acid. Right. What is the French name for that? Faux Blanche? No. Keep going. We'll get it. Ouniblanque. Ouniblanque. Trebbiano Toscano would be the Italian corollary. But there are a bunch of grapes that go by Trebbiano in Italy that are not necessarily part of the Trebbiano family. This one makes a lot of sense. Yeah. It's the synonym game. Let's get to the main grape variety of wine. We're going down a rabbit hole here. Yeah. Well, that's why you have me on. Soave is the region. A point of confusion when people again leave the US and go into the old world. The wines are typically labeled by the place, not the grape variety. So, Soave Classico is the DOCG, the demarcated area. Again, Northeast Italy and Garganega is the dominant grape variety here. But you should still find that same bright acidity, the same freshness of fruit that we found. Because of some of the winemaking here and just texture that this grape variety brings, there's still a roundness to the palate. Absolutely. That I think Chardonnay drinkers in particular will enjoy. Yeah. Yeah. On the nose, it's a little bit flinty and matchstick. I agree. There's definitely that struck match aroma here. That's generally a winemaking thing. Let's say a mercaptan. Bit of sulfur, right? Mercaptan? It's a sulfur compound and it's commonly found in Chardonnay. So if you go to Burgundy, you'll find that expression very commonly, and here it is popping up in Soave. So this is really nice. What does this cost in comparison? So pretty much the same price at $17.99. So it has a pretty similar fruit intensity. It's got that pineapple that I associate with a lot of California Chardonnay, but then it has like a more vegetal, more underripe fruit too, and I don't know what that would be. So I think there's a bit of melon and maybe even melon rind here, which might be what you're picking up on. That's one of the things I'm getting, and also some stone fruits, peaches, and things like that. You know what? Also the bottle, it makes you instantly think about Riesling, so that's going to prime your brain to look for green apples and stuff like that. But I don't know if they're putting it in the right bottle if they want to do themselves a service. Yeah. Well, not all Soave comes in that style of bottle, interestingly. This is Pieropan, a famous producer, very good producer. But you can find Soave in different shape bottles. Some of them are in Burgundy and some are in Bordeaux style bottles. They're all in the map on Bottle. You said newer. How long has this region been going? Well, that was new to the consumer listening to this podcast. So it's old though, right? Yes. Like they got upset with all those new upstart French wine regions when they got started. A long history in Soave and they actually, Chris, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it was last year or maybe two years ago. Two years ago, they were trying to establish kind of crew vineyards within Soave. So really trying to separate the best sites. I will say if you're shopping for Soave, like most other Italian regions that do this, the Classico is up in the north and is the heartland of the region, the best sites, the hillside sites. I would definitely recommend spending those few extra dollars rather than just going for that generic Soave. Yeah, which is not to say that all basic Soave is bad, but the terrain definitely flattens out on the outskirts. You don't get those hillsides. Every time you guys talk about a new appellation or crew designation, especially in Europe, I just think about the Palms You Got Aligned to get a zoning permit change in Chicago. And just the hairy, shady bull that goes on to defining a new wine region with extra special rules. Well, our local school needs a new soccer field. Yeah. It never accidentally excludes a really wealthy winery just outside the border of that area. Yeah. Can you imagine that boundary is drawn and you're just on the outside of it? You're like, what? Yeah. You couldn't include my acre? Yeah. Or it goes right through the middle of the field. Look at the way the O'Hare region is appended to Chicago and you can get a good idea of what we're talking about. All right. So Chardonnay drinkers, especially the more restrained, ono styles, go ahead and check Soave out in Italy. Even Pat likes it. So yeah, that's something. The true test of wine connoisseurship. Yes, absolutely. It's the first thing to my mind. Foxglove is still pretty good though. It is, it's real good value. Foxglove is better. I used to recommend that one and if I remember correctly, it was $12.99 but also that was 15 years ago. Okay, so next up in your glass, one of the best sellers in the Pinot Noir camp here is the A to Z Pinot Noir from Oregon. And we saw a lot of this, and you all should know it as you listen. So inexpensive Pinot Noir, this is 17.99 on the shelf. That's not that inexpensive. I thought it was like under 10 bucks. Pinot is an expensive category, my friend. Yeah. I always tell you, if you think you don't like Pinot Noir, it's because you're not spending enough money on Pinot Noir. It's true. Take that Mark West. Yeah. It's hard, especially in Oregon, finding something at the $10 price point is almost impossible. How often do you see an Oregon Pinot Noir that doesn't say Willamette? Sometimes. L-O-1. L-O-1. We probably have a couple dozen. Oh, really? I'm trying to think. I sorted through this recently. One to two dozen wines that are outside Willamette. It's Willamette. Williamette. What would you say? Willamette. It's Willamette and Parts Unknown. Yeah, usually south of there. Okay. You have a couple from like the Rogue Valley. Exactly. A warmer area than Willamette in general. You'll see more growth stuff like Temporneo even down in the Rogue Valley. Yeah, unusual. Yeah, Saraw, Cab Franc. I didn't know anything that warm acclimated was grown in Oregon. Yeah. It's a pretty different climate. You're getting down closer to Northern California there. Yeah. All right. So Greg, thoughts on A to Z Pinot. A to Z Pinot. What are the highlights that we're going to try and find in another wine? So right slamming out of the nose, it's way game-ier than I expected, which offers some complexity that I wouldn't usually expect at like a quote value Pinot Noir. Then I don't know, the expected raspberry is there, and a little bit of strawberry underneath, but it's the wild raspberry. It's much funkier than you'd expect for such a high selling Pinot Noir. Yeah, I totally agree. None of that unexpected in Pinot Noir in general, but surprising. And considering how much of this we sell compared to others, this is dry and interesting where I feel like this compared to something like Maomi that's so sugar-laden. This is just vastly, and it ended up usually selling at about the same price. This is a very different line. This is a great reason to revisit some of these value brands, because sometimes they surprise you in both directions. Alicia and I tried something this morning, which will remain nameless. We both were expecting to be better based on our memories of value wine, and it wasn't that good. Wait, is that the one that got axed so that we would have this one? Yes, sir. No, no, not this one, but another one. It got axed from the podcast. Okay. Thank you. Thanks for taking that bullet for us. Yeah. But this is actually more interesting than I thought it would be. I agree. It also has a zap of acidity at the finish. Yes. That really lifts it up and makes you want to drink more. Is that natural? Is that real? Yeah. There's a lot of acidity from this. Like mildly. Pinot is a relatively high acidity. Yeah. They're not going to acidify it. Okay. I don't think so. All right. Well, better than expected. I think there's been enough. Totally agree. So what we're looking at here with Pinot Noir fans, we're thinking about red fruit, we're thinking about fresh acidity, we're thinking about an earthy, savory quality. So we again want to bridge the new and the old world here and take you to Europe and take you to a region you probably don't know, just like Suave, but we too are in Italy, but all the way down in Sicily, a region called Etna Rosso. By law, this must be dominated by a grape called Norello Maschilisi and this is grown on the lower hillsides of Mount Etna, very much an active volcano, just erupted last year. Yeah, just recently. And this kind of volcanic ash that falls actually acts as kind of like this natural fertilizer in the region. So it's all right as long as it happens at the right time. But anyway, Chris picked this and it's so perfect because this is my absolute favorite producer that we carry out of Etna. And this is his entry level at Norello. What grape did you say? Norello Maschilisi. That's why I forgot it. So 25.99 here. Go ahead and smell and taste this wine. And I think you'll find similar attributes with a little bit more intensity or find a little more structure, a little more tannic presence, a little more fruit concentration, but everything in the same family. Even just in appearance, look at how pale the color is. Yeah. It's in that Pinot family. Fruits more tart cherry on the nose. A little more bricky red color to it than darker. Exactly. Something you expect out of a lot of Italian wines. You see that in Nebbiolo based wines too. Man, it's wild cherry though. Yeah. Yeah. Tons of cherry. All that wild fruit again. Holy cow. I think you get more mouth feel than we had before. Yeah. Your tannins are amped up, but they're still pretty fine-grained and still that kind of savory. Like tea, like tea leaf and dry herb. Not Italian herb, I don't know. Sicily is one of my favorite places to take people to in Italy. One, because everyone knows where it is, so that's a starting point. But two, more attention is being paid to the wine making here and some excellent producers that are doing well in a lot of indigenous grape varieties. Historically speaking, the south of Italy and Sicily in particular too, they really just sent all of their wine in bulk up north and other parts of the world. And that does still happen. It's still a small percentage of what's made in Sicily is bottled there. But what is bottled I think is quite fantastic and of really good value. Yeah. So I thought that the south of Italy and Sicily were very hot. But this is not like overly ripe. This seems pretty moderate. Is it is temperature being like cooled by Mediterranean breezes or some like that? There's elevation factors. Oh, but yeah, it's the side of a mountain in there. Yeah. And you are surrounded by water in Sicily as well. Never been. Someday. Yeah. It's a hot part of Italy. I really have no interest in going there. Way too much sun for Pat. He'd come back like a turkey jerky. I don't know that I'd come back and just combust on the side of the mountain. Although they do make one of my favorite amari down there. Amaro del Latino. It's a choice cut. Oh. Oh, very nice amaro. Okay. All right. Featuring some local oranges. Local citrus for sure. Is it wine based? No, it is not. Anyway, I think this clearly speaks of a more powerful, maybe Burgundian style of Pinot noir. It's pretty thoughtful for the price. Yeah. I like it. I think Greg mentioned cherry. I think it's got a little more that, yeah, it's a wild like gamey ish cherry, but it's that brighter red versus the kind of darker purples that I found in the Pinot noir. So it's a little different, but I get where you're coming from with overall body and structure is very similar. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Cool. All right, what's my next lazy wine that I buy too often? Wait, Rhone? We're saying that Rhone is overplayed? People buy this too often? I've never even seen this. You have. This looks like a Martinelli's sparkling cider bottle. What is this? You haven't heard of Cote de Rhone before, Pat? I've heard of Cote de Rhone. I mean, what is this label? Just because you have an unsophisticated wine. No, I've never seen that bottle. It's parallel 45 is Jaboulet. It's pretty famous. Okay. Is this the guy who dances around under the moonlight? I think you're thinking of Michel Chaputier. Chaputier, sorry. But Jaboulet is one of the giant companies right up there with Chaputier in the Northern Rhone. They're huge concerns that act both as negotiations with purchase fruit and- Trademark interruption. This smells amazing. I can't believe you thought Homi wasn't down with the Northern Rhone. I mean, the Sarah Heavy Mistral-influenced Northern Rhone. Where are you getting this? Did you have him in a class? This is from the Southern Rhone though. Yeah, this is Southern Rhone. Well, it smells rather- But they are based in the Northern Rhone. One of our consultants' favorite recommendations, when you come in for value red wine that appeals to a lot of people, and compare with a lot of different foods, we often do think of the Rhone Valley, and specifically the Cote du Rhone coming from the South. They can source grapes from a broader area of land, so we can get that value. We're generally looking at Grenache dominant blends, but we find Syrah, some Avedra, maybe some Cinso as well in the wine. Famous producer here as we talked about, Paul Jaboulet. This is on the shelf for $13.99. If you've found yourself gravitating towards the Rhone- It's pretty banging for $14. Yeah. Hell yeah, it is. You've been recommended Cote de Rhone's before. We want to add to that journey, and so we'll get there in a sec, but we'll give some general thoughts here- Let me see that bottle again. On this wine. Pat is taking a photo of this wine right now. I'm sending it to my nerd friends who like to buy wine. Yeah. There's deep red and purple fruit, and then there's cocoa and olive, like black olive. Yeah. Yeah. Solid coal. There's almost like a little like cardamom or something. The gallery. Yeah. Yeah. And then on the palate, it's got the raspberry fruit, but it has this slice of orange right on top of it. It's great. It's like the acidity and the citrus quality on top. It keeps it so alive and fresh. Greg, you're so right today. I don't know what's gotten into you. You better keep it up. And for this price, a good mouthfeel, a good weight on the palate. Sometimes it thins out and is uninspiring, but a very solid wine. And as you see, it spans fruit clusters. We get the kind of spices, we get the garrigue, the floral, all kind of and some savory notes all in one. So this is what Couturon drinkers love. It's an excellent wine. Right. Good. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's spot on Couturon. In my memory, I mean, this bottling has been around forever. This was always a slightly lighter expression. Yeah. This has some serious weight. This is on the like deep and rich end of Couturon. But it does not attempt to be Chardonnay to pop like some do. You know, they're too alcoholic, too overripe, and the fruit gets a little dried out. This is fresh, weighty, but not too much so. And it stays lively on the palate. I think it's a really great example. So, we enjoyed that. Totally. But now you want to add another wine to your wine fridge or to your closet. I'm happy to keep enjoying this. You keep enjoying that. But sometimes you wanna serve something else. And so we're gonna take you to another Grenache dominant wine. We're staying in the old world, because if you like this, you clearly do like those savory elements, the fresh acidity, the little bit of spice, floral, all that complexity. And so we're going to go to a region in Spain called Priorat. In Spain, Grenache dominant blend. This also has some Syrah, I think some Cab and Merlot as well. It changes from year to year. All of those international varietals are allowed here, but they seem to be, when this Priorat kind of first burst onto the modern scene, because it's a revivified area. And Palacios, I think, had a lot to do with that. People were really into like Syrah and Cab and stuff. I think that's kind of fading a little bit, and people are leaning more into things like Garnacha and... Karenina as well. Karenina. Is that Karenian? Yeah. In this area, I think they call it Samso. Not to be confused with Sinso. Correct, although that is another synonym for Sinso. Okay. This is why people get mad at wine. We're doing a crossword puzzle of grapes here. So this is Alvaro Palacios, Camins del Priorat, 24.99, on sale right now for 21.99. And I think you'll find some of the same elements. Again, everything's going to be amped up a little bit from the previous wine. But I think that drinker will still really love this. It's a little fatter and more plush up front, but then it doesn't have the finish that the Rhone had. Is that less tannin? I mean, what's going on there? I mean, the fruit is definitely riper. I think the tannin is still there, and arguably more tannin than the previous wine. I would agree, but they're very, very fine, aerated a little bit in your mouth. And just think about the super, super fine texture on your tongue. I guess I'll do the same and make bubbles in stereo. Yeah. I think that'll really bring out the tannic structure for you. But it is super well integrated. If you have to look for tannin, but it's still powerful. It's in there. Yeah. But it's fine. Exactly. Yeah. This is a riper, richer version of the same fruit. And then on top of it, instead of orange, is like tire rubber. Tire rubber? Yeah. Springfield tire fire. Okay. That does happen, but I don't get that. You don't get it on this one? I get a lifted floral top note. Also, yeah. I had this recently. Jason was super on board and he was like, you have to get a bottle. And he never says anything to me, so that he came and was like, you got to get this bottle. I got it. We recently, I poured this at our Women of Binny's Spanish Food and Wine demo. We paired it with a paella, a sausage paella. My invite must have gotten lost in the mail. You know what, Pat, it was funny. You could have just signed up if you read my zipline. I'm not doing that. So how was it with the sausage paella? It was delicious. Absolutely delicious. Well, is this tomato in that or is that rice? Yeah. It is, right? Well, tomato and rice. So you're hitting acidity with acidity, right? Yeah. Yeah, you need that high acid wine with that tomato base for sure. So, Priorat, you're looking for Garnacha dominant blends here, often with Carignan, and then some international varieties thrown in. And again, this is up in kind of the somewhat close to Barcelona, but up that way in the northern Spain is kind of a weird shape, so I always kind of lose it, but northeastern. It's about as uniformly. Well, if I say north, you think of Rioja. Lob shaped as a country can be. No, if I say north, you think of Rioja, right? But this is south of that. Sure. But it's north along the Mediterranean side. Yeah. Anyway. East of Rioja. Yeah. And south of Barcelona. And the bottle has a flower from your grandma's pillow. Very much so. And really telegraphs that floral note in the wine too. Pretty good stuff. All right, last set here, Chris, all you. Last set here. Okay, so when we decided to do this, we went out on the floor here at Lincolnwood, and we're looking for wines that... Hey, you said we were recording from a secret location. Oh, I mean, here in the basement of the Capitol, we went out to the sales floor, and we talked to one of the sales associates out there, Giuseppe, right? This is a wine that he recommended, and it's the Donati Claret from Paso Robles, so a blend of Bordeaux varietals. And one that he said that he sells a lot of. Yeah. And I think we'll find it to be a typical big, kind of ripe Paso Robles style with a fair dollop of oak in the nose. I'm curious to know what you think. It is actually hot in Paso Robles, right? It is quite hot, depending on where you are. There are some sites closer to the coast that obviously are. I initially kind of got a blast of blueberry out of this, but then it seems to be fading as I go. Am I off base here? Chocolate blueberries? Yep. But what else really hits you in the face with this wine? Both Chris and I smelled it and we looked at one another and in unison said something about the wine and winemaking in particular. How do you think it was aged? American oak. Did you say dill or vanilla? It's more just the sweeter spices. Yeah, I don't think dill is in there, but obviously the vanilla bean, but just there's this intense sweetness. There's baking spice. The spices that really hits you. Yeah, not quite. It's a bit over the top, isn't it? Not quite coconutty, but. Oh, the finish is so much vanilla and lactone. That's what I'm talking about. Once you take a sip. It's lactone. It's hell on the finish. This is. It's not sweet, but it's plain footsie with sweet. Yeah, for sure. I don't mind it. It's just very different from the last couple of breads we tasted. Totally. Very different consumer here. But if you like those very ripe, very plush, heavily oaked California kind of red blends, you may have had this wine before or have had similar things. This is again the Donati DVF Claret 1699 on the shelf. It's ripe, it's big, it's plush, it's soft, it's smooth, it's oaky, it hits you in the face. It's all of those things. It's a meal in a glass. Okay, so I really like Cali Cabernet, which this is pretty much the photograph of modern California Cabernet. What do you got for me? So we're moving into a wine, another wine from Spain strangely enough, made largely with Tempranillo from Rioja. This is Muga's 2017 Reserva. So extracted ripe fruit in Tempranillo that mirrors like those overripe California Cabs. Is that what you're getting at? So there are a couple reasons we chose this. I don't think it's going to be quite as ripe as the Donati. Okay. But Muga kind of toes the line between traditionalists and modern. They certainly get ripe, rich fruit, but not so much so as to be considered in the real modern camp. They still use American oak in conjunction with French oak. I'm kind of guessing Donati might do the same. There might be a little French and American. Yeah, that's probably true. These wines are really well put together and they're pretty bold and absolutely delicious, great with food. A lot of people that maybe start out or appreciate this style of the Donati, we do get a lot of questions of introductions to a profile that yes, this is similar, but again, it is a different wine as you taste it, but people want to move along and take a step in their wine journey. They don't want to just stay in one camp. You think about the wine that you first started on, you need to continue to expand your palate and appreciate different things. We're trying to draw on the similarities of the fruit and then refine that a little bit with I think a more balanced approach in the Muga. I agree. It's stretching people's idea of what they might like, but with similar weight and texture and intensity. It seems like there's similar weight on the nose, but there's also one of those, it's like one of those estuary kind of things like Kalamata olive, dunder pit, dunder pit. Overripe fruit. A little bit of that bruised overripe fruit. I also think about there's a little soy hoisin thing going on. Maybe that's a better way of saying it. Very common for rio. Yeah, I think I get your olives in there for sure. What do you think? I like it. It's easy drinking. It's a little lighter on its feet and finishes a bit drier, I think, but there's more of a peppery spice in the finish. I don't know if that's an alcohol heat that I'm picking up. Way more alive, right? Yeah. I think the Camins are- It just lifts it up more in the finish. Yeah. Yeah. This is a wine that is capable of aging pretty well. What does this wine cost? $29.99. Not bad. It's a bit high. What was the Denati that we're comparing it to? Yeah. The other thing that you might want to think about here, and I didn't realize this when I grabbed it off the shelf because it was kind of predetermined that that's what I was getting, but this is the 17 vintage, which was not a stellar vintage in Rioja. However, Muga makes some very, very expensive wines, and like a lot of producers do, when there's a OK year, they didn't make their high-end wines. So all of the juice that would have gone into the more expensive stuff ended up in this bottle. So the Donati is $16.99, and again, this is $29.99 on sale right now for $27.99. This is pretty good. So $10 more. But as you all say, there's more acid, the tannins are more integrated, the fruit isn't as overripe, but it's still there for sure, and I think there's way more complexity to the wine. It's just the natural progression that a lot of wine drinkers follow. They start with the, I don't want to say obvious, but the bolder flavors, the sweeter flavors, that a lot of times you get from the new world, and then as their palate develops, they become capable of appreciating more nuanced and subtle wines. And I think this is the direction this is going, without being too distant from our original wine here. One other interesting thing is that this wine probably usually contains Mazzuolo. What? Mazzuolo. This is mostly Tempranillo. There's probably a little Grenache in here, but there's also Graziano and Mazzuolo. What is Mazzuolo? An agave varietal. Mazzuolo. Movedra. No, you already said the answer earlier on the podcast. You'll, you'll, it'll make you... Make you angry. Really? Marlowe? No. What did I say earlier on the podcast? I said... Caragnan. I've seen so. Caragnan. Caragnan. Mazzuolo. Can't f*** with wine. Get it together. I mean, just because they said it for thousands a year, doesn't mean we have to. Right. It's all regional. I mean, you have to remember that wine growing in Europe has been going on for centuries and travel was not as easy then. So if something was native or brought to your area, it's probably going to start to be known by your local dialect. We still call wheat, wheat everywhere. Interesting. I don't know, corn, barley corn. There are some similarities in the grain worlds. There's like a prickly quality on the back of the palate here that makes me want to keep going. I don't know what that is. It must be acidity, right? It's just, Greg likes mine. It also could be that it's Friday and I'm sick of this. Right. Yeah. All right. So that is our line up folks. So we went from Chardonnay to Garganega in Soave. We went from Willamette Pinot Noir to Norella Mascalesi and Etna Rosso in Sicily. We went from a Cote du Rhone to Priorat. Lastly, from a bold Cabernet blend from Paso to a modern style of Rioja. So try new stuff. Try if you like. Yeah. Remember, these aren't the only answers and they're not necessarily the correct answers for you. Yeah. The point is explore, learn something new, taste something new, discover something new that you love. Cool. All right, you're ready for this? Yeah. And that brings us to the Q&A portion of Barrel to Bottle, The Binny's Podcast, where we answer your question for a $20 Binny's Gift Card. Write us your question at commentsatbinnys.com or hit us up on social media, at Binny's Bev on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and probably TikTok again pretty soon. Really? Yeah, and Glassdoor. That's for employee reviews. I know, but it's on our website footer now. Glassdoor is? Yeah. Our question this week comes from Sarah on Facebook. Sarah writes, does the wine glass really matter? Not if you use a straw. That's funny. We actually did this a couple of weeks ago. It was a Friday and I was about to go on vacation and I got bored, so I asked my team and we literally did side-by-side of my dumb little beer fest beer glasses and just like our shots Vesal Forte glasses that we have in abundance in the office, and Good. All right. No, for real. Fake news. Fake news. We did it with beer glasses a while back. Okay. Did that matter? Yeah. But also we found that some of the fancier hipster glasses aren't really that great. Aren't that great. It was yes and no. It mattered. But it was a fun episode. Maybe we should do it with wine. I think it'd be interesting to try the same wine. Can we open the Betz Family Reserve? We have to have very, very expensive wine from a very, very cheap glass that was washed in a dishwasher with Dawn. Poor Dawn. As long as I get to drink more Betz for free, I'm on board. All right. I'm really glad that left such an impression. Home is loyal to Washington state. That's true. That's true. Us blow hearts have answered this question so far. Have you guys done this? No. Oh, really? Really? I mean, I have just in everyday life. I mean, there are a lot of little tapas bars that serve wine and just short glasses. Yeah, they're glasses. The Italian juice glass tradition. Chris, you've done this, right? I have. Did you go to one of the George Riedel seminars 15 years ago? We had George Riedel here who did this seminar at a bunch of different stores, right? I was just going to bring that up. Definitely, their claims might be slightly overblown, but there's no doubt that the shape of your glass can focus the nose in a certain way or even where the wine lands on your tongue. The shape of the bowl, the shape of the opening, the shape of the lip, and how it pours into your mouth. All things that matter when eating breakfast cereal. And in case people don't know, the Rideau line, they spend a lot of time researching and making a lot of handblown, not all of them are handblown, but handblown crystal that is specifically designed for a certain type of wine, a grape variety or a region. So they make a California Pinot Noir glass. It's different than their Burgundy glass. Yeah, the Zinfandel and the Sauvignon Blanc glasses are strikingly similar. Yeah. Yeah, I mean. So yes, it matters, but Chris, let's, you know, we all have limited space and limited funds. So if you were to have three wine glasses in your house, three types of wine glasses, or maybe two, I don't know, three obnoxious. Yes, it is. Okay, Chris, if you were to have two different types of wine glasses in your house, what would they be? Yeah, I think you can generally get away with your standard red and white wine glasses that are generally thought of as being, you know, like a Bordeaux style glass, like the Schwarzweisel that we taste out of all the time. I don't see any problem with that. If I were to add a third, it would definitely be a bigger balloon style glass for things like Burgundy. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, with those larger bowls for these more powerful red wines, we're exposing more surface area of that wine to oxygen. We're allowing kind of that swirling motion to take place, yet still focus the aromas at the top. Your white wine glass, super versatile. If you didn't even have a burgundy glass, you know, maybe you could argue some thin skinned red grapes could go into that white wine glass. Your sparkling wine, definitely pour out of a white wine glass. There's absolutely no need for another glass for sparkling wine. I was just going to point that out. Most of the traditional sparkling wine glasses are not particularly great. They either have the coupe or the flute, and neither one served the wine that well, frankly. Yeah. The dumb metaphor that I always used was, you've got different speaker sets, and the same song sounds different on different speaker sets. One might be your car stereo, and one might be a really expensive hi-fi system at home. The Libby wine glass with the really thick glass walls is your earbuds. Right. Or you could just use the equalizer thing, because some glasses, literally some glasses will turn up the bass, and some will turn up the treble, and vice versa. Yeah. So you can have the same wine out of a different glass side by side. Last thought. Well, you got something? Well, I also just want to say like just keep this in perspective based on the wine you are consuming. Right. If you're going to buy an A to Z Pinot Noir, that wine is not really going to change too much by the glass that you serve that in. Take that A to Z. Yeah. I mean, Chris, would you agree? Well, I mean, I was drinking Fireball from the fire keg from a burgundy balloon glass and it made all the difference. All the difference. All right. Last thought on this. Pat your bad mouth in it, but what is that fancy glass that you have hundreds of strewn about your house? Well, the Glencairn glass. You have a bunch of them because it's a great spirit's tasting glass and it's better. And it's very reasonably priced. My kind of rule of thumb here, though, is that if someone were to come over for dinner and drop one of my wine glasses, if I would cry... She just picks up the chardon and cuts them with it. Or get mad or question inviting them over again, I probably need to spend less on the wine glass. Yeah. Yeah. Don't get too precious. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. Because those lead crystal glasses are not only... They're nice, but they're super delicate. They're really expensive and they put them on a little seesaw. Right. Like, good luck. You know? All right. So yes, the glass matters, but keep in mind the wine that you're having. And if you're going to have two, a Bordeaux glass and a white wine glass, you're good to go. That's what you need. Thank you, Sarah, for the question. $20 Binny's Gift Card coming to you. Everyone else, once again, write your questions to us at commentsatbinnys.com and hit us up on social media, at Binny's Bev, on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. You guys, thank you. I happen to like Rioja, or I happen to like Roan and California Cabernet and this delicious Chardonnay. But thank you for giving me more options. He was saying he liked the original wines. Well. And we got there on an entire episode without Greg saying something just completely inaccurate about the wine. Zweigelt. Yeah, your tasting notes were pretty good today. I didn't even have Tom Yum soup. The pressure was on. Yeah. That's probably why. Yeah. This tastes like kefir, lime leaf. Needs more fish sauce. Right. And fish sauce. Cool. All right. Thanks, you guys. This is fun. And we're going to do another try if you like in another 18 months. You're welcome, you guys. And that's super genuine. I mean, I mean that from the heart. I couldn't welcome you more if I tried. Anyway, thanks for listening to another episode of Barrel to Bottle, the Binny's Podcast. We'll be back next week with something stupid. I mean, that's just a guess. Possibly better. I'm Ron Burgundy. I'm Chris. I'm Greg. I'm Alicia. And I'm Pat. Keep tasting. Keep tasting?