Brunellos - Barrel to Bottle Cuts Through the Acids and Tannins

All right, I just want all of you to know two things. One, I don't know why, for like no reason, I'm grumpy today. I can't tell you why. That never happens. And also, the two of you should know that Chris asked me on to this episode because he thinks neither of you can handle tannic wine. So- You can't handle the tannin. He wanted me here so that it wasn't just you guys complaining. During the tannins- Oh, that's fair. You want Greg on that wall. Yeah. That's fair. Yeah, right. You didn't bring me in here for the Hoppy IPA episode, but fine. No, I mean, this is actually a legitimate concern of mine, I believe, because these wines we're going to try to take are notoriously intense. Tannic and acidic wines, especially in their young state, and these are all quite- Great. Well, I see you brought food, so that was a smart play. Well, that was the other thing is I had to get some food because I want a little fat and protein to cut the acid and tannin for you guys who aren't so fond of this style of wine. I mean, that might have been a draw too. Yeah. You don't know. Maybe I love tannic wines. Yeah. Good point. Yes. History bears that out in prior podcasts. Yeah, you're right. You're very right. I don't love it. I know. He's like, you don't know me, and Chris is like, I do. I do. I listen to the podcast. I live the podcast. You know what they say, if you can't handle the tannins, get out of Montalcino. Do they say that? I don't know. Let's do the intro music. You're listening to another episode of Barrel to Bottle, The Binny's Podcast. And today we're doing a wine episode, and it's all about Montalcino in Tuscany, Italy. And yeah, we're going to dive into it. I'm Chris, I do wine. And in the room with me is... Lexi, I'm on social media. Roger, I work in beer. Greg, communications. Okay, now we have wine and we have food. Yes. So this episode is all about Montalcino, which is an ancient hill town in Tuscany. I learned a very important lesson from Lexi last time I did a wine podcast, which is people don't necessarily know what the hell I'm talking about. Oh, often. Like, where is the Willamette Valley? I have no idea, right? So we're going to start with that, I guess. Montalcino is an old town. It's got some elevation. The entire area is kind of like a big square. It surrounds the town of Montalcino, which also is kind of the peak of elevation. So it's a hilltop town with hillside sloping down in every direction. Southwest, southeast, north. It must be big. It's relatively maybe a hundred square miles. It's pretty big. OK, I was there once and Tuscany is full of hills. Yeah. So what makes this hill special? Well, there are a couple of things that make it special. It is positioned geographically south of the Chianti region. So if you know where Chianti is in Tuscany, which runs basically from Florence south down to Siena or thereabouts. And Montalcino is south of Siena. And you have other Appalachians around there like Montalbocciano, Vino Novo. Not to be confused with Montalbocciano di Bruzzo, which is down on the southeastern side of Italy. I picked that up. The importance of the geography here is that we're only about 50 kilometers inland from the sea. So there is some sea influence. There are two rivers that kind of surround this area. There's one that runs on the western side of the Appalachian. There's one that runs south and east of the Appalachian. And they do conjoin at some point. Those have some cooling influence. And then there's also a big extinct volcano right nearby. So that provides a rain shadow for part of the region. And also there are some volcanic soils here. Neat. So if you can imagine Tuscany north of Rome in your mind, just before you get to that big armpit of Italy, you know, where it curves out like grizzly. Armpit. Boot pit. Well, I'm just trying to be descriptive. You know, there's this big bulbous top of Italy. And then on the western coast, there's kind of a curve where like Guria lies. The panhandle. Yeah, the panhandle. Pensacola, Italy is one of my favorite places to visit. So anyway, this is a place that is largely dedicated to the growing of San Giovese, although other things are grown here. But to be Rosso di Montalcino or Brunello di Montalcino, you have to make it out of 100 percent San Giovese. Not only that, they have a specific clone or specific clones known as San Giovese Rosso or Brunello. Okay. So literally the name of the wine is the grape variety and the place put together. Is Rosso made from Brunello grapes? It is. It must be. Okay. So to be Rosso or Brunello, it has to be 100 percent San Giovese from the Montalcino region. Here's a curve ball for you. The first wine we're trying is not labeled as Montalcino, but it is from a very, very famous Montalcino producer. But it falls under the Toscano IGT Indicazione Geografica Tipica. So this is kind of this is kind of the Western influence on modern Italy and winemaking. So IGTs generally are more like the Wild West, like you'd see in California. You can you can pretty much grow what you want, age it the way you want. It could be cheap stuff, but yeah, not necessarily super Tuscan. Right. Exactly. Is this a super Montalcino? I do believe that the grapes are probably grown in within the boundaries of Montalcino, although they don't have to be to be under this appellation. They could bring them in from Bulgari. They could be. They could be. Bulgari is not that far away. So one thing we're talking about it being near the coast. If you leave the southern portion of this area, you can go straight to the sea. And you'd be in the wine region Marama, which is a coastal area just south of Bulgari. Yeah, buddy. Two oritas in there somewhere. Yeah. Place is pretty good. That is true. Two oritas. Ratagafi, one of the great expressions of Merlot on the planet. Jim's about to cut this. So anyway, one of the reasons that somebody might do this is because the grape varieties are so restrictive. This wine is 80% Sangiovese and 10% Merlot, 10% Cab, which immediately disqualifies it from being a Montalcino wine in particular. Interesting how this is going to stack up to what we have coming. I wouldn't guess this is Sangiovese and it's 80% Sangiovese? Yeah. But it has a roughness and a strong outer shell to it? A strong outer shell, a carapace. What's the thing on the cathedral? Buttresses. Oh, like a flying buttress? Yeah, it's buttresses or flying. Gothic wine. If you're in France, try not to burn down the Gothic churches, okay? Now I associate Sangiovese with being structured but softer and more savory? Definitely savory for sure. They can be quite structured regarding acidity for sure. So acid levels generally quite high in Sangiovese and they can be quite tannic depending on your extraction methods. And when we get to Brunello, they can spend weeks macerating on the skins so you can extract quite a lot of tannin. This one is meant for early drinking. It's not supposed to be that way. Yeah, it's supposed to be easygoing. This is Altesino. Did I say that? Altesino. Altesino Rosso Toscana. I feel like I need a dryer race board. There's too many terms. There's a lot of stuff. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's wine. What are you going to do? This is a beautiful color. I like the really dark ruby hue to this. Yeah. So San Giovese is kind of notoriously medium in color. Sometimes in Brunello, it's even Enchianti. It can be very light in color if it's traditionally made. Definitely Caban Merlot bring a lot more anthocyanin pigments into the game here. So you get a darker color for sure. So what do you think? What's it set you back? This is pretty reasonable. 1799. Yeah, that's reasonable. Yeah, and Altesino, just to be clear, is a very famous Brunello producer. They've been around since the 70s and they were pretty instrumental in kind of pushing things forward. They started doing single vineyard bottlings before most people. They started using modern imported techniques like putting things into barrique, which is definitely not traditional here, but many producers do now. So French oak barrels rather than large Slovonian boti. Yeah. Is that where some of the tannins coming from too? It could be, yeah. I mean, definitely wood will impart tannin. So it's like definitely approachable at a price, and it's not overwhelmingly tannic, but I think you're getting like a powerful wine for under 20 bucks. Yeah, I agree with that. You know, this is the kind of thing definitely to pair with what we have here. Some nice Tuscan cheese, maybe a little salami. Speaking of, what do we get here? Maybe a little roasted meat. So the cheeses are, we've got it just like an age provolone. So this is provolone picante. So it's a little sharp, little lactic. And then we have an actual Tuscan cheese, which is Pecorino Toscano, which is of course Pecorino is sheep's milk cheese. And they're made all over Italy, but this is the famous Tuscan version. It's still soft. Yeah. Yeah. So it's aged, but not you can get younger versions that are softer. This has some age on it. You want an aged version to go with these heartier wines. That goes perfectly with this. I said salumi, baby. Yeah. So this is we also have a little Tuscan salami that is studded with little fennel, little, little finocchione action. Chris put an entire slice salami on one thin paper plate. That's right. Has to paw it like it's a taco in order to keep the structural integrity of the plate. Well, taco paws Adamson. Is that butter? What is the other thing? That is butter. I mean, I am a big believer in salami and butter and cheese and butter and life with butter. Are we supposed to palm it or? No. I'm sorry. My knife, the knife is here. I know. There's also some bread here. I got a sourdough bull because these wines are really acidic and I thought that might be interesting. However, the traditional bread of Tuscany is- Tuscan bread? Yeah. It is. It doesn't do it. Roger knows what's up. But the defining characteristic of Tuscan bread is it's shaped like this, is often made in a bull, but they never use salt in it. So it's very, very plain bland bread. Wow. This salami is the bomb. What is this? It's a Tuscan style salami, finocchiona. You can see the fennel influence on it. There's some garlic. There might be a little wine in there. I really appreciate the big garlic, the spicy fennel. Yeah. The tang to the cheese, I think it's puts this wine in context for me. Yeah. Much easier for me to appreciate and enjoy. Well, that was my hope. Like these wines are quintessential food wines, great with roasted meats, steaks, game meat in particular. My favorite. Yeah, but also excellent with cheeses and mushrooms and all kinds of savory things like that. So, you know, party ragus with pasta. You know, you could even make a nice mushroom ragu for you. I did this little combo here and it cuts through the wine a little bit. Yeah. So, yeah, it's well known that a little fat and protein will will bind to tannin instead of the tannin binding to your flesh. It's literally, you know, a trade-off. You've given it something else to cling to, so it seems to grip. Yeah, seems smoother and grippy tannins are appealing. Next, we're going to move on. The main focus here is Brunello, but we're going to move on to a Rosso. I thought we'd try the entry level wine that is Montalcino specific here. Rosso di Montalcino. Rosso di Montalcino. Rosso di Montalcino. Did you start with the softest because I didn't think that was even that austere. Yes, that was the idea. Good. We are in for a treat, Roger. Here we go. Up from there. Another interesting fact about other great varieties, there is an Appalachian or a Denominazione if we're talking Italian. I was literally just reading that as you said, it was pretty funny. It's like subtitles on TV. Oh yeah, there's that word. So they carved out an Appalachian called Cent Antimo to allow for things like Cabernet and stuff. Because if we want to be honest about it, there was some speculation for quite a while that Brunello producers were not necessarily always on the up and up and maybe sneaking a little Cab Merlot in contrary to rules, especially- What are you talking about? Right. I remember particularly the 1997 vintage was heralded as great, but a lot of critics started saying like, why are these colors so dark? Why is these wines so plush? They don't seem very Sangiovese like. So a lot of finger pointing went around saying, people are putting Cab or other international varietals. But there is an outlet for that. That's either you go to the IGT Toscana or you go to this DOC, Sant'Antimo. They make other stuff here too. They grow Muscat. There's Muscadello di Montalcino. Who knew? There's Vincanto style lines here. So anyway, the whole idea of Rosso is that it can be made a bunch of different ways. It could be a barrel selection. It could be a vineyard. It could be anything. The main thing is it's got to be 100% Sangiovese, Grosso grown in Montalcino. It doesn't have the same ageing requirements as Brunello. So Brunello is notoriously long-aging. It takes five years to really lease a Brunello, which is crazy. And you can do this in a year. And some people make what they would call baby Brunello, so big, trying to- A bambino. Yeah, trying to- bambino Brunello. Trying to be Brunello-esque. And some people make easygoing, lighter, fruitier versions. And it depends on what you're going for. Let me know what you think of this. This is Caprili Rosso 2022. Pulls all the juiciness right from it all. A little bit of tannin on there. Remember, this is just the Rosso. So this is not meant to be. However, as I was saying, this is 100% baby Brunello. This is what they're shooting at here. Big structure, rich fruit, you know. Nice fruit character, yeah. Deep flavor. Yeah. So maybe we should talk about standard profile. I mean, you can expect cherries, strawberries. Raspberries, man. Raspberries. All the red berries. All the berries. Yeah. And like black tea. Yeah. Yeah. There's all kinds of stuff that can go on in these wines, and they age remarkably well. The Brunellos do. And as they do, you get more savory notes. You can see coffee popping up, chocolate, gamey flavors. Count me in. Yeah. So yeah, the berries so pronounced in this reminds me of our Sangria Palooza, where you're macerating your farmer's market brambles in there. Right. Yeah. It's good. This is a winery owned by the Bartolome family. Like I said, this only gets one year of aging. And these guys are in the southwestern part of the Brunello Appalachian. So this is where the hill is sloping away from the city of Montalcino and looking toward the sea and the river. OK. And the elevation is getting lower and lower as you go down toward the river, which makes sense, you know, going down to a river valley. And this area tends to make pretty bold, intense style because you get a lot of afternoon sun exposure with this southwest facing hill. But then you also get a little freshness from the sea, keeping it lively, keeping elevated acidity. But you can expect anything that's grown in this area. This is this is grown in particular near a village called Tavernel in the southwest. You can expect these to be pretty bold examples. OK. It's really good with the Pecorino. It like multiplies the sharpness of the cheese, multiplies the savory quality of the St. Geovese. Yeah. I love the color on these. It's just so bright. Yeah, that can be quite stunning. The gemmy quality to it. Now I say, first part of the appreciation is with your eyes. You've got to eat something and this is just really beautiful to behold in the glass. I think that's why Chris got rid of the end pieces of the cheese. There's a little rind on this. Can we eat the, I mean, you're going to say yes to just about anything, but people eat this? It's not a rind that is particularly good. Particularly attractive to most people. Listen, this is a natural rind cheese. You could eat it, but it will be a little gritty, little tough. It sure is. Yeah. I warned you. Yeah. So, the main focus of the podcast here is 2019 Brunello, but this Rosso comes from the 2022 vintage. Obviously, you can release them much earlier. These are contemporaneous releases, so 2022 and 2019. Is the extra age from seller, like they're letting the wine rest, or is it in, it's not in barrel? It's both. In this case, you can do almost anything you want. This actually sees 12 months in barrel. There's still plenty of time. Yeah, in large oak barrel. These guys are making a very serious traditional Rosso that is aiming at Brunello style. So yeah. You didn't bring any of the frou-frou ones? I did. Oh. Not the Rosso's, but I- Well, don't spoil it, I'm sorry. I brought a mix of modern and traditional styles. What I was going to say is 2019, fabulous vintage for Brunello, very, very lauded. However, 2022 Rosso's have been released and it's looking also very good. You can tell the quality of this wine at a mere $19.99. Holy cow. Yeah. I mean, this is a serious, serious wine for 20 bucks. You can tell that the quality is going to be high when the Brunello's are eventually released in several years. Moving on, here is something else that I did, something that I did that is unusual for our podcast, which is I decanted all these Brunellos this morning. Oh. He's watching out for you guys. Yeah. So it's 4.30 now. I decanted all of the Brunello at 11.30. So we've got five hours on them, which should be good. And we're gonna- Thank you for going the extra mile. Well, I really wanted to make Lexi and Roger as comfortable as possible with these beasts. Caprili, on the far end, far, no, the other end. Is that where, is that the town that Olive Garden is based off of? Yes. It is. I have no idea. I think Olive Garden is based off the town of Italy. I thought it was Brigadoon. I'm pretty sure according to my source. You know, when you have kids, it's a perfectly fine place to get endless salad and breadsticks. Oh, yeah. So a little trick I played on you guys, it's not really a trick, but we're going to taste the 2019 Brunello from the same traditional producer, Caprili. Caprili. Yeah. Caprili? Caprili. This will be a study in the differences between Rosso and Brunello proper. So Brunello proper has- You said this had to be aged for five years. Very strict aging requirements. You must- They must spend two years in barrel. Generally, that's large Slovonian oak boatee, large barrels. However, a lot of producers use small oak and or a variety of sizes. And sometimes they use new French oak in the, you know, modern style. This does not- This is a pretty traditional, pretty- should be a full-bodied version from these southwestern slopes, same southwestern slopes. These guys have four estate vineyards that they pull. They pull this from all in the same general area. Okay. It's a little juicy. But it has an herbal, like just the focus of the nose. There's a little bit of fruit, but it's like cola. And then it's like tea leaves and reeds or something like that. I don't want to say forest floor because I don't smell forest floors that often. I don't want to get ticks. But like a mossy plant kind of thing. So this wine in particular spends two, two and a half years in Boaty. And then the other requirement is it has to spend at least four months in Bottle before release. So you can, any combination, as long as you meet the minimum requirements for being in Barrel and in Bottle, is acceptable. You could keep it in Barrel the entire time if you want. Yeah. I should point out the notes that we just said were the nose. Yeah. It's really sanguine on the palate, like copper focused with the fruit. But the fruit, again, it's playing an under, it's the counter melody. To like the structure and the herbs and the power of the thing. I definitely feel like it's herbal, both on the nose. The nose is quite complex and nice. And I think pronounced herbal. Agreed. This is a hallmark of Brunello. Complexity is definitely part of the game. If your Brunello is simple, then you're not doing it right. What is the significance of keeping it in a bottle for four months? Just to let it rest and acclimate to the bottle. I mean, four months is a pretty short period. Some producers might keep it in bottle for a couple of years. You know, you could. You don't have to release it right when you can. You have to wait until January after the fourth year of harvest. So to release. Always January. Well, that's when you can. You don't have to, though. And then if you make a Reserva, you have to... The aging requirement is another year. And, interestingly, the barrel requirement is the same. It only has to be two years, but you have to age it longer. But a lot of people, again, would keep it in barrel longer. So here's where I started failing wine classes. When you have to keep the different aging requirements for different regions across Europe separate, because in my head it gets confused with Rioja and all those other places. There are a lot of aging requirements. Barolo. Yeah. All these different things. Yeah, everybody writes their own rules, and they can be very, very strict. And if you don't abide by them, you get fined or maybe go to jail sometimes. Okay, so I had this with your aged provolone style cheese here, and it really does help the fruit come forward. It knocks a little bit of the herbal down, and it definitely eases it up on your palate. You wouldn't know, but it's fantastic with the salami. I'll take your word for it, too. I bet, I mean, like the herbal spices in salami adding up with, plus the fat working against the tannins. Exactly. Some of the best pairings are to complement the herbaceousness with herbs in the food, and yes, and then tame the tannins with fat. I bet this would be good with your Thanksgiving stuffing. Oh, yeah. Especially Roger's. He piles meat into his, doesn't he, Roger? Got the sausage-y-est. Sausage and beef, yeah. I think there's a rosemary quality that would make this great with serving with lamb in nice and fatty and rosemary. So I was in Tuscany many years ago at a winery, and they served us venison with olives and rosemary, and it was mind-blowing with the wines. Oh, shut up. I mean, just incredible. This with olives, like really good rich olives in the oil. I should have bought some olives. As you can see, I took the most cursory swing through the cheese department as quickly as I could. Don't beat yourself up. By the way, dude, it's not provolone style cheese. It's freaking real provolone. Oh, no. Okay. Sorry. It's actually raw milk provolone. Okay. So the soils are different all over. This place tends to have clay and little stones, and the other thing they do is they make a pied de couvre, which is almost like a starter wine to make, because they use wild yeast here a lot. This producer definitely uses natural, spontaneous fermentation, but you can take a small amount of grapes and smash them up and get that yeast really going. And that's called a pied de couvre. Usually it's smashed with your feet. So like a natural inoculation, but they're controlling it. I wish I hadn't started talking before I processed smashed with your feet. Yeah. Well, so yeah, I mean- Are they yeasty feet? Like particularly- I'm sure they are. They're probably pedococacy feet too. It's like a kin to a biga if you make bread or even a sourdough starter, or sour mash maybe. You could liken it to that in some ways. Cool. Anyway, that's Caprili Brunello di Montalcino 2019. It's $45.99. That means we have three more 2019 Brunellos di Montalcino to try. That's true. Where could they go from here? I salute your apostrophe yes, sir. Yeah. Well, what were we talking about earlier? We were talking about how many- Oh, guysfieri. Yeah, how many guysfieri? I mean, that's the best use of that word. How many guysfieri could you get in one party? Oh, you missed it, Joe. You missed. Yeah, that was good. That was a good part of the conversation. Everybody asks their mothers-in-law. How much is the Caprili? The Caprili is 45.99. Hey, take some of that salumi and put it over by the Italians over here. Over by there? There you go. Roger's Italian on a day like today. Yes, he is. He is New Orleansian on a day in February. He is like 80% Gabagool today. That's one of the Italian New Orleans overland. Okay. Oh yeah, there he is. That's why you have muffalettos. Of course. 2019 Brunello di Montalcino was our producer this time. Silvio Nardi. Just a little background. Lest you think that this is one of the more ancient and storied regions in Italy. It is considered one of the greatest, some people would say the greatest wine growing region in Italy. But up until the 60s, there were literally only 11 producers in the entire Montalcino area in the 60s. They got up to about 25 in 1970. Now there are over 200 producers. Oh my gosh. Was it IGT back then? No. It was actually one of the first DOCG awarded in Italy, along with Vino Nobile di Montalcino and Barolo. Then a few months later, they awarded Barbaresco. Was it Chianti? Chianti followed later. Oh wow. Yeah. This was number one along with two other. For a long time, this region was entirely defined by one producer, which was Biondi Santi, which we carry. It's very expensive. It's very traditional. It is the iconic traditional Brunello. That dates back to the 1800s, but there was no DOC. It is now DOCG, Denominazione Origine Controllata e Guarantita. So it's guaranteed by a government tasting panel. That's a sweet job. Yeah. You get that job. Right. So yeah, it got bumped up to DOCG. But like I was saying, Biondi Santi was all that Brunello di Montalcino was for years. They made like four vintages from 1888 up until like 1945. They only declared four vintages or something crazy like that. It's insane. And, you know, people started seeing the potential and moving in and growing things. And actually, Silvio Nardi was a pretty early guy here. Going back to the 50s, he bought an old farm. Ironically enough, being one of one of the early producers, this wine is made in a very modern style, aged in French oak as well as bottle. So I was going to say, our bro James Suckling used to use the phrase purity of fruit a lot. Yeah. And that's immediately what comes to mind on the nose right here. It's like super expressive fruit. I think that this wine is surprisingly a little soft at first until the back end. And then the back end, you know, you nailed it in the throat. So the time in the small barriques tends to round it out, makes it a little softer. This is why it is where it is in this line up. I wanted to taste the Caprili's side by side or right one after the other. And then I wanted to move into the next soft expression. And this new French oak tends to help out with that. But then the tannins rise up at the back. They do indeed. And the fruit, and then I think that the herbal quality that comes up is kind of like anise. It's kind of like having a red rope licorice and a black licorice at the same time. Yeah, anise is a big descriptor in these wines. Like Roger was saying, the finocchio goes really well with it. The nose here is really captivating. I feel like it's, there's some herbaceousness, but it's a little more complex. Am I getting oak off the nose? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it seems like some oak, like vanilla. Yeah, and like sweet spice. Yeah, this spends actually 12 months in French oak from the Alier forest and 12 months in Boti. So it splits its barrel requirement in two different size barrels. And of course, the Boti are neutral, so they're not imparting any of that oak flavor. The French oak is. OK, that's very good. Yeah, the cheese evens it out a little bit. Yeah, that helps myself. Who has a low tolerance for all these damens? I think it yeah, it helps. Yeah, so this is this is a venerable old producer. First vintage 1958 for Brunello, which was old by Brunello standards. As you can tell, since 1960, there were only 11 producers in the whole area. Pretty well done in the modern style. How much was that one? So these are not necessarily inexpensive wines. This is kind of where the heart of Brunello lies. You can get a lot of things in the 40s, which is nice, and there are some really great wines like the Caprili. This is $69.99, which is kind of where they live. Oh, sweet. That's pretty serious value. Yeah. That's also a pretty good value. We're talking serious wine here though. Yeah. The ageing potential of these wines is immense, like decades if you want. That was something I was going to ask. So when they released these, are people kind of replenishing their cellars? One of those things like, okay, so now I can, I've been drinking these that are at what range about, would you say people are? A good 10 years on a Brunello is pretty nice. With some of the more modern styles after six or so, I mean, I'm talking 10 years from the vintage is only five years from release. So it's not like you're aging them forever in your cellar. But some of them could last 20, 30, 40 years, depending. Some of the really traditional ones are just have like really high acidity. They're really, really built and very austere, and they really don't come into their own until much later on. However, these days, like every wine region, winemakers are moving toward things that are a little softer, a little fruitier, a little more approachable and young, unless you're just a staunch traditionalist. So next, we're going to move on to Mastrojanni. He did Live at the Acropolis. Yes. Mastro. Acropolis. Acropolis. How do you say it? Acropolis. Oh, yeah. He did Live at the Acropolis. Yeah. Yes. And he is a maestro. Mastrojanni. This is actually someone's last name, Mastrojanni. There's no space. I thought it was the maestro named Yanni. No, it is not. There's totally a space right there. Unless it's one of those jacked up fonts where they have things not centered the right way. Too much kerning. Yeah, kerning. It's not centered within its kerning. Yeah. Yeah. We're talking about kerning on Barrel to Bottle, the Binny's podcast. Cut it out. Graphic design is important, folks. If you want guys like me and Roger to not think maestro and Yanni were two different words. Okay. How's the wine though? Especially because your eyes drawn to this giant old timey wax seal right above the Mastrojanni. I'm imagining like a Tim Burton film where flames are wicking against someone's ring finger and then they press it down. Yes. But it's probably just a factory. You want to know what the worst thing about that wax seal is. You put it in a bin and stack some bottles and they all break and you've got crumbled red wax everywhere. Been there. And then everybody looks at it through all the bottles, trying to find one that's not broken. It's a real disaster, Mastrojanni. We've got packaging feedback out the ears for these guys, Mastrojanni. Guy named Gabriel Mastrojanni came to Montalcino in 1975, and he was one of the early adopters of the southeastern region of Montalcino. I didn't maybe make it clear that all the classic producers, or a lot of the really old producers, are in the heart right around the ancient city of Montalcino. Up at the top? Yeah, and that's about 500 meters high, and it has a special soil called glestro, which is very prized for growing San Giovese in in this area. Let's see if he's about to tap out here. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no. Too, too tannic? No, no, no, no, no. No? I'm not a tapper outer. Okay. Anyway, this is bold. This is kind of like more of a garnet, like there's some amber to the highlights. Am I imagining that or is that? No, you are not. Again, it's that long aging before release. You get some tawny colors. Yeah, tawny. Perfect. I think you definitely pick it up on the nose. It comes across like cedar. Yeah. Yeah. Excellent point. I love that quality. You find that a lot in Bordeaux, of course. Except there, it's matched with like this like overly vegetal dark fruit thing in here. It's above this graceful dusty cherry. And it's so much more graceful. Yeah. Nice. I like that. So this is down in the southeast. So we're in the southwest with Caprili looking at the sea. Here, we're in the shadow of the volcano, the extinct volcano, Mount Amiata, it's called. And that provides a little rain shadow, and it provides some cool air that runs down the mountainside. They're also close to the Orsha River, which is one of the rivers that surrounds this area. They're really very close to the river, also providing freshness, coolness. And they still get, because they're down south, they still get some sea breeze. So they get a lot of sun, a lot of sun exposure, morning sun this time. And they also have the cooling influence of various geographical formations that lead to big diurnal shift. So these wines are often quite powerful, but fresh at the same time and delicate. I agree. I think that there's acidity, like refreshing acidity balancing up against the tannins. Lexi, maybe that's why it's like a lot for you, because those things can kind of multiply when they're both like hitting your palate at the same time. Yeah. With the last few, there's been like a little bit soft in the middle or in the front, or somewhere in the journey and I'm missing it on this one. Well, we should take every one of these wines and lay them down for five years and we'll do another podcast. But Chris, you de-canted them for five hours. I did, which should have theoretically opened them up a little bit already. Compared to how this would have been right out of the bottle? Yeah. I mean, generally, we like to pop and pour here to see what the average consumers can get. But I think it does a lot of favors for these wines, particularly aromatically. It's not going to round out the tannins like long-aging will. Five-hour de-cant will help, but it's not going to make them not tannic. How about with the cheese? Is that helping? Yeah. I would say that the level of complexity here is worth mentioning. I can tell this is a serious wine. Yeah. There's a lot going on here. There's nuance. Not one thing is just popping out. I really feel like there's blackberry or there's rosemary or something. You can pin down, it's integrated enough and layered. It has a lot of flavors that I'm looking for words for. The herbs here are more indistinct, less distinct, more subtle. I want to say potpourri, but not silly flowery potpourri. It's this floral herbal mix. Yeah. I mean, there's a violet lift here. There's definitely herbaceousness. There's all kinds of things. It's very complex and it will only get more so with time. It reminds me almost to your point of how to say it without potpourri sounding, like air freshener, like a mulling spice, like all spice. That has some nutmeg and some clove and stuff like that, which isn't completely absent here. Chris, you had said game meats. I think that this has the kind of spice that gets put in game meat sausage. Yeah. That kind of thing. I agree. Juniper. Juniper. Yeah. Juniper is very frequently paired with game meats. Rosemary. Yeah, rosemary. And fruits are often paired with game meats. They go really well together that kind. Yeah. I know that there's not a note of garlic here, but I think that this would go really well with whatever you're pan to garlic tomate. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Sure. With the garlic on there and some cheese and some black pepper. Yeah. And then you've got this savory quality and the vegetable quality and the sweetness working together with the wine. I like it. Or your olives with the garlic stuffed inside of them. I'm so hungry now. Somebody's bogarting the Casanova di Neri over there. Oh, yeah. Is that going around already? This guy? Yeah. I don't want to dump this one. I know that damn it. Pour another. This was mine of the year like a decade ago. Yeah. So this is another huge, huge producer, really, really famous and not that old, because not much is that old around here. This one smells like port by comparison to some of these others. So, yeah, I think every other one of these was probably 14 and a half on the label. This is 15 percent. It's so rich and fruity. It's this is what I would call a modern producer. But this, in particular, their white label, they treat traditionally other than the fact that I think the grapes are ultra ripe. That that. Yeah. So they must be on the west side of the hill. They're not, strangely enough. So they're pretty close to Montalcino. They were founded in 1971. You can go out on their veranda or whatever and view the city lights, or the village lights, or the beautiful two-story skyscape of Montalcino. They're to the northeast, which traditionally, especially if you keep going a little further, is considered the less desirable zone. That's like the summer sunset shadow. It's got the coldest part of the summer evening. Correct. That's a very astute point you make. The soils are not great. It's cooler. There's relatively high elevation. Yeah, Roger, astute. I enjoyed that. Astute Inter Jackson, Greg. Yes, indeed. You're going to tell me there's no American oak on here. I get that kind of opulence. So this only sees large oak, Boaty. Whoa, not even little French oaks, huh? Yeah. Some of their stuff does go into small oak, but this one does not, but it spends 43 months in barrel. It's a long time in barrel. Yeah. Is this natural fermentation? Yeah. I smell some bread, yeah. Could be. I haven't even gotten to it yet. Definitely another producer that's using wild yeast. But that's like a grace note on top of this- In a nice way. I have. Plush plum. It reminds me between that and the fruit character reminds me of lambic. Yeah. I mean, you're right. It's very plummy. It's very berry-esque and it does have a little bit of the barnyard. That's a good note, Roger. I wouldn't have picked it up, but it's funk. It's just a little bit of funk on top of the big fruit. This one is surprisingly more approachable to me than the last one. Because it's ripe. Yeah. But it's tannic, too, but the tannins are more in balance because the fruit is really big and plush with tannin. Yeah. Like I was saying, this is made relatively traditionally, but nothing else about this winery is all that traditional in their approach. They do single vineyard offerings. They famously have something called Tenuta Nuovo. That's the one that was the winner. Yeah, that was the winner here. They've gotten 100-point scores, I think more than once for, definitely Tenuta Nuovo got 100-point score, which was named basically the new vineyard is basically what that means. And they bought a vineyard down in the south, even though they're up in the northeast. And it definitely makes a very big bold style. Okay, hot take. I like this the most on its own. Yeah. But I think in terms of food pairing, its fruit is almost over the top and it kind of steals the show. This is the kind of the standard belief about wines. The better a wine tastes kind of on its own, maybe the less suited it is for food. You know, if it tastes complete and rich and round and like a meal in itself, then, you know, but like some of these other wines where the acidity is really high and the fruit's a little more austere, blossom with food. Yep. So I think this is a little bit port-like. It's a little bit more like a dessert, like after dinner kind of thing. Very astute point, Greg. Thanks, Chris. It definitely is port-like. And this is my favorite from the complexity and integration of flavor standpoint. But then, I mean, the tannins are really dries out your mouth at the end. Well, so then have it with cheese and the tannins go away and the fruit just is like raw, jugging everything of fruit. Jumping through the wall, it's like, oh yeah. This is why this is so, this winery in particular is a darling in the US. And not only that, Brunello is a darling in the US. We consume more Brunello than Italy does probably. We are really a hugely important export market for this appellation in particular. Why do you think that is? Because the wines are big and bold and fancy, you know. This is going to shock you, but the reputation around the world, is it Americans or dummies who like sweet things? Yeah. And this is getting toward that. This one is. Now if you try something like Biondi Santi, it will disabuse you of this notion completely. Lean, austere, tannic, frazy acid. I mean this might express fruit. I certainly wouldn't say sweet. No. I mean, there's no residual sugar here. But it's big. The 2003 Bordeaux Vintage, they called it the American Vintage. Yeah. Because it was so hot that like thousands of people died across Europe. You feel the heat on them. I mean, this is 15 doesn't seem like, I know it gets crazier than that, especially American made wines, but I noticed the alcohol in this. 15 is very high for Italian wine unless you're talking like about Amarone or something. Anyway, how much is this one? So that is $70.99. Hey, that's 99 cents higher than a reasonable price point, but also about $30 less than I was expecting. Right. I know. Why not $69.99? Who knows? Seems a little silly. It will surely go on sale at some point. So, well, that was our little tour of Montalcino. Does anyone have any questions? I know there's a lot of information. All the Brunellos that we tasted were from 2019. We saw a very good range across them. And for what it's worth, the 2022s, the Rosso di Montalcino, and the Rosso di Toscana, or the Toscana Rosso, however... I think you could probably say it either way you like. Like that's a serious weeknight having a fabulous packed-in bottle of wine. Hell yeah. For 20 bucks in both cases. I think for those of us who are a little intimidated by tannic lens... Eat some cheese. Add some cheese. Also add some butter with your cheese and bread. Am I right? Butter and cheese and bread? Hell yeah. The perfect grilled cheese. Yeah, the food was a key experience for me here. I really appreciate being able to taste these in that context. I feel like that's such a big... You can't just talk about Italian culture and not have the food, right? I mean, I just feel like they'd always be serving something with it. Yeah. Wines like these without food is anathema to Italian culture. That's a really good point. Thanks for bringing the food. Yeah. Well, I figured I had to, and I had vowed a long time ago that there would never be another barrel bottle without food, but I failed miserably. But this one really I thought needed it. Needed, yeah. If you think this is fantastic, go home and raise a lamb shank, cook a roast. Yeah, grilled meats with this, cigars. I could see people love smoking cigars. These are really cool cigars. Make a porcini ragu. If you think this is fantastic, leave us a review on the podcast platform you chose. Feel free to bring us casseroles. Yeah. How about we determine that you can only leave us a review at Apple? Yes, that's the only thing that matters. Yeah. Or reply to the Instagram story or the Instagram posts. Tell your friends. Tell your friends that Barrel to Bottle to Binny's podcast is an enjoyable time. You need to hang out with colorful characters like Chris and Roger. I'm available to be auctioned off for dinner dates, party appearances. We'll start debating it. We'll see you next time. But from now, Barrel to Bottle to Binny's podcast. You can pay me to stay away from your party. Until next time, I'm Greg. I'm Roger. I'm Lexi. I'm Chris. Keep tasting.