Binny's vs. The Machines - Barrel to Bottle Tests the Limits of AI

00:00 Introduction Three billion human wine consultants lost their job on June 24th, 2026. The survivors of this event called the war Judgment of Paris Day. They lived only to face a new nightmare, the war against AI. The computers which controlled the machines sent two terminators back through time, Jon and Gabe. I would watch this movie. You guys are the two terminators coming back through time. Come with me if you want to drink Pinot Grigio. I don't think we're the terminators. I think we're a little bit more... What was the guy's name in Terminator 1? Reese? Was that his name? Kyle Reese, yeah. I feel more like Reese. Well, I'm doing T2, which in this one, in that case is the terminator coming back to help. Well, one of them's coming back to help, but in this case, you're both coming back to help. Can I be the liquid metal one? Yeah, sure. Okay. Cause that guy's awesome. I'd be John Connor. Yes. Why? Cause his name is John. So does John Connor have an arsenal of corkscrews in a underground vault in Mexico? No. Yes. Yes, he does. Cause he can't bring those corkscrews back from the future. As we know, you can't bring anything back. Cause it's TSA. You'd be just naked in a ball of lightning. Let's not delve to the Terminator lore. The only thing that travels back is the Binny's name tag. But if I'm liquid metal, I could just turn my hand into a corkscrew. That's true. That would be cool. So, why don't you do the intros? This is how we rise above. Do the intros. Well, that ended several moments ago. Really petered out. Are you not a fan of Terminator or is it every time AI gets talked about, Terminator gets talked about? It's that second one. I can't say I'm a fan of Terminator, but of the Terminator films that I've watched, including one, two, and three. I enjoyed them. Yeah. I don't think he likes bits. That's it. I don't like bits. I don't know. I don't like extended bits. I've heard this podcast before. Greg, I need your clothes, your boot, and your motorcycle. Your boot. You are listening to Barrel to Bottle The Binnys Podcast up in your feed with something large language model-y, because that's what we're doing. We have two of our crack wine managers here in the studio. I'm Greg, I do communications at Binny's. I'm Gabe, I do wine things at Lincoln Wood Binny's. I'm Jon, I do wine things at Binny's. Jim, communications. At Binny's. At Binny's. You guys actually get faced, like are people just coming up with their phones and jamming them in your faces? What's going on with the AI? Or it's the opposite where you encounter somebody that is dodging all human life because they're buried in their phone, looking up the answer that we could give them immediately. Then you know, if you ask somebody three times, like you doing good over here? Are you texting mom? No? Okay, you're looking up the answer to the question that I have? All right. Okay. It's a lot of that. So you're a little salty about it or what? No. I think we should all be pretty salty about it. Yeah. People with their faces buried in phones. Not going to say the specific brand of AI, but I just think that people should know that it's an AI provided by the software company, the office software company that Binny uses. Yeah. It's pretty common AI. It's a pretty common AI. Yeah. I feel like AI is just in everything. Right. Okay. I'll say this again. Remember when we had to stop having plastic straws and we got those lame paper straws? That is so dumb because that you drink it from a plastic cup. And anyway, we all cared about that and AI is way worse for the environment than those straws were, but it's on everything. Everything. And sometimes it even like it expand. When I'm typing an email on the button, it suddenly throws some options and I'm like, I'm trying to get around your options to close this and I got a very obtrusive. Absolutely. I don't like it when I'm trying to email a friend and just use some ridiculous language that I know they will understand. I don't want proper English here. I didn't ask for that. I learned it. I ain't using it. I don't like that it's on Google Maps, because sometimes I know where I need to get to. I don't want to explore via AI. This is not a road trip. This is me trying to get to work. Okay. So but it's not all gripes. AI also could save humanity. It's wildly helpful and sometimes efficient and sometimes like you got to punch up a book report, it's there for you. We're not here to offer a moral judgment of AI, but we are here to ask if AI is as smart as a Binny's Wine Manager. Dun, dun, dun. Jon is up for the challenge. Come with me if you want to live. We literally have a cup full of questions. How many questions we got? We got 50 questions? I don't know. 25, something like that. Gabe and I were spiraling on the phone. Yeah. I was just typing them in, then I sent them completely unedited to you guys. Awesome. Thank you and I'm sorry. This is a surprise for you and it's a surprise for us. None of this is scripted. You can tell by listening. So the questions- Also a month ago, so I don't remember what we sent either. Oh, wow. Yeah, this is what I wanted to go. All right. So I'll say that these are not bad questions, but they're all real questions that you and I have received, right, Jon? Yeah, that was the premise. We were thinking, what are the most asked, the most common or the most common that people are AI-ing? Or even not AI-ing. Some of them were just, here's the things that we get asked that it's this jumble of, there's a lot of right answers or a lot of wrong answers. There are also some like, did a person really just ask that? Is that a real question that people think? Which there's always the caveat, we do work at a liquor store. You never know. We do get a lot of weird questions. All right, so we're going to start off question one. Hit me with the good stuff, Jim. Hang on a sec. Jim's drawing the questions, I'm AI-ing the answers and I will be the voice of AI, and also myself, but you'll know when I'm being which. So should we answer it first and then hear the AI? You answer it and then AI will answer it and then you can react to the AI. Yeah. Okay. Okay. What's the first question? Wait. What wine is good for a diabetic? 6:23 Diabetic Wine Choices I love this question. So my first thing is I let them know that I am not a doctor. I don't even play one on TV or at Binny's. I've been to a doctor. And while it's great that they're being conscious of their health. Or somebody else's health. Yes. My understanding of the human metabolism is that it breaks everything down into the same complex carbohydrates, especially alcohol. So even though they may be drinking a low sugar wine, that 12% or 11% is all going to be processed the same way as any other carb. Yeah. And so even if you're looking at that low cal... I mean, people will come in, especially with this trend of like low calorie, low alcohol wines coming through. They'll be like, can I... Was one of these the answer for me? After I get off that soapbox, I go in to say, let's look for things that are in cooler climates that produce less ripe wines. So there is less natural sugar to begin with and therefore less in the end product and likely lower alcohol content. So there's less to be converted. Absolutely. As such. But you let them know, there's no safe guarantee. Right. And all good things in moderation. Sure. And so with those things in mind, I take people to champagne, which is cool climate and lower alcohol, 12.5 or less usually, and then your other cool climate growing regions, dry Riesling from Germany, Larvalli, Sauvignon Blanc varieties. It's not bad. Sometimes just simple wines will do. Simple white wines, Northern Italian simple whites. Honey, I have diabetes, I have to drink champagne. I'm sorry. Wilford Brimley was a big proponent. Diabetes? Diabetes. Rack and riddle. He was 40 years old for his entire life. Yeah. We actually have a wine with us that fits that bill, doesn't it though, Northern Italian. Let's get an answer. I'd probably go here, but what does AI want us to do? While we pour the first line. I phrased the question to an AI. Let's call the AI Mike, Rowsoft Co-Pilot, Mike, Rowsoft Co-Pilot. I asked it what would have been his wine manager say if asked this question by a customer. Here comes the music. This is actually kind of uncanny. You followed the same format. No, it followed my format. Oh, it was listening. Yeah, it followed your format. You're right. You didn't follow this format. Here we go. I'm not a doctor, but in general. Really? I can't do a happy voice? No. Did it actually start with I'm not a doctor? Yes. Because that's exactly what you said. Is it listening? Again, yeah, but this came out before they started talking. I just want to start and thank our robot overlords for what a great job they're doing. I'm here to help. Everyone, welcome our robot overlords. But who thought it was a doctor? Send me off to Chiron Beta 9 to work the asteroid fields. I'm not a doctor, but in general, that's hard to listen to. I imagine AI as a person is just like the most cheerful, who will shake your hand and smile, and you never really know what he's thinking because it's always an act. I wonder if I could give a- Give that voice. Yeah, that was what I was- I wonder if I could create a large language model for Greg and have it just use your words, and then Greg 2000, and then have it just repeat the phrases. It turns out that there's only like six phrases. So it sounds dead and empty inside. Yeah, you could replace me with a soundboard, not an AI. Yeah. Another beautiful day at Binny's. Nice man, just ask him. I'm not a doctor, but in general, people watching their blood sugar tend to do better with dry wines, especially dry reds or very dry whites, since most of the sugar is fermented out. I steer you away from sweet wines, things like Moscato Riesling labeled sweet dessert wines or anything with late harvest on the label. Dry reds like Cabernet Sauvignon, Pinot Noir, Chianti, Rioja or Malbec are usually safe bets. On the white side, look for Sauvignon Blanc, Dry Pinot Grigio, Alborrigno or Un Oaks Chardonnay. Lower alcohol can help too, because higher alcohol often means more residual sugar and smaller pours with food tend to be easier on blood sugar. If you want, tell me what you usually like. Okay, now it's just doing an AI. Why don't you just tell me the wine you like? A little shotgun, but yeah, pretty dead on, that's not bad. I think that customer would look up and then still look for an employee. All right, I got 17 things here. Yeah, they would look for a specific recommendation, which we have segue to the Jean Max Roger Manitou Salon. Was really excited to see these wines coming in. A couple years back, I spent almost a full week in Sancerre. I'm absolutely love Le Barre Valley. It's one of my- Almost every winery that I visited, we taste their Sancerre and we tried all the different soil structures separately and as their blend and then most of them had this little thing on the side. Oh yeah, we also make this Manitou Salon. I tried and like, that's very Sancerre. It's still 100 percent Sauvignon Blanc from Le Barre Valley. It's just the way that Pouille Fumée used to be significantly less expensive than Sancerre. This is the new less expensive version of Sancerre. Nice. Typically, we see these at anywhere. I've seen them as anywhere from half to two-thirds the price of a Sancerre. I think that falls into line. Jean-Max Roger is just about 30 bucks a bottle on the shelf, maybe a hair less, and this is just a touch over 20. Yeah, 23.99. Super happy. That's what used to be nice about Sancerre, is that it used to be 23.99. Yeah. So, manatou salon yourself there, Greg. What do you think? Thank you for the insight. I think this smells absolutely delightful. It's like a pear-heavy little fruit salad. Yeah, it's really nice. Yeah. It's not screaming at you either. I like that the acidity isn't just trying to be like, yeah, the biggest thing happening here. Yeah. It's crispy to the point of crunchy. It's happy. Acidity, lively, vibrant. Yeah. I think we've been working with this one about two years almost. We just got a second producer. There's a growing category for value, lower value whites. Say it one more time again. Monten. Manitou. Manitou Salon. Very phonetic. Manitou Salon. The Manitou Salon. Yeah, I can see it. It is like a baby sans air. It's not too flinty though. True. Yeah. Yeah. 12.5 on alcohol. You're getting classic dry white wine amounts of residual sugar, so next to none. This would be a good option for sans air alternative, but also for anyone coming in with the sugars, trying to be conscious. Yep. Yeah. Yep. Gets you right here. Yeah. Let's get that sweet tart intact on salivary gland. Makes me want to drink and drink. All right. Cool. Jim's going to draw another question. Well, here's the perfect question. 13:16 Sancerre Substitutes What is the substitute for sans air? What? You literally are pulling these out of the cup. Yes. But then we can ask AI. We've done the human side. Yeah. This isn't the only option. I mean, Jon did mention Pouille Fumet. There are, I mean, since Sauvignon Blanc has grown all over the world, I think to get that cleaner styling, a couple of white Bordeaux is coming to the mix. Love the white Bordeaux. Ones that maybe didn't see too much oak on them. Oddballs here and there. You can also get, there's other Loire Valley. You can just get general Loire Valley white, which is often heavily, if not 100% Sauvignon Blanc, the whites of Torrain. Oh, yeah. Oh, mid-teens always. Yeah. You'd have to try to spend more than 20 on one of those. Holy cow. You guys, this is crazy. This is actually crazy. Your phone is listening. Are you done? Are you guys actually, can I go? Yeah. This is freaking me out. Okay, here we go. If you like Sancerre, you're really liking Crisp Dry Sauvignon Blanc with Mineral and Citrus notes. I can get you that profile without the Sancerre price. Then it goes on to recommend, closest Loire Valley swaps, same grape, similar climate, usually less expensive. Pouille Fumée, Manitou Salon, or Quincy. Yeah. I believe that is pronounced Conce. Conce. Conce. Good word. I was afraid it was going to be Quincy because I don't know how to say Quincy either. Then it also offers high-confidence crowd pleasers of Marlboro, New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc, and Casablanca or Leyda Valley, Chile. Good call on Chile. Different vibe. Verdejo, Albarino, Gruner-Veltliner. Okay. Okay. So. Well, this is a bust. Why is it a bust? Because they're right. But they're still looking for that's still the customer. That's what they're going to need ultimately. Well, where do you have these and which ones are the best options in these categories? Absolutely. I mean, can't say. I've been working for Binny's, December will be 20 years. Congratulations. Thank you. I think we've had wine from that region maybe three times in my 20 years. Wow. So, we're still important, right? Maybe? Yeah. Like, where is this? You know, where French whites kind of get lumped altogether and maybe Loire Valley is a small sliver of that with a lot of stuff in it. Yeah. You're gonna need someone to walk you through there. As a dummy, even when I worked in the wine department, I never figured this out. We appreciate it. Yeah, you're welcome. They get slotted in next to Burgundy and the bottles look identical, so it's kind of tough to tell where the border is there. Oh yeah. These are still just the most French things ever. Yeah. It's white with script. Hey. Thanks. Thanks for not having, you know, beige. I mean, we're still going to need a human to help you to navigate. Let's see AI lift that box into your car. Right. To narrow it down and, you know. AI has never had to have a hangover. But I do love you, AI. You're my best friend and- Don't grease up Greg's AI. I think for the next question, can we ask AI first, because I feel like your phone is just listening to what we say. We will ask AI first. We will lock it in. Round two. Jim's gonna read the next question now. What is a good wine for a 25-year-old? All right, all right, the answer is locked in. I'm screen capping it. It's not gonna change. All right, what is the best wine for a 25-year-old? Really? No. Yeah, why not? Best wine for a 25-year-old. Let's assume that maybe they've just scratched the surface of drinking wine. Let's take out the easy side of it, of like Moscato or something like that. Maybe get them into Juicy Reds, maybe get them into Coturones, maybe get them into some Zini blends, maybe go to Italy, St. Barber. I love the idea of doing a red blend, or getting something that's gonna be probably softer. Going on to the assumption that this 25-year-old didn't come up in a family that regularly had fancy wine and didn't have a career in fancy restaurants like I did when I was in my early 20s. Yeah, just a normal, average, casual, everyday drip. I think the red blend vibe, great call, Gabe. I would maybe look at Pinot Noirs for sure, maybe throw in a Rosé, softer whites. Yeah, happy answer to that, sparkling wine. People always find an occasion to open bubbles. Always go with bubblage. Yeah. Can I lean in with just the Greg answer? Yeah. Underbrook. Wait, the Greg answer or the AI Greg answer? The Greg is a wine salesman answer. Don't do what I did when I was 25. I bought the cheapest version of everything that I wanted to try, and so I wasn't impressed by anything. If you want to like something, maybe quote entry level or sub-entry level isn't the place to start. Go to tastings, experience what's out there, and then start to go toward what you like. Yeah. So that you're not limiting yourself. A robot can't tell you what you like. That's really strong advice. It took me this long to figure this out. That's good. I like that. Conveniently, Binny's has tastings at all 46 locations. It wasn't meant to be a plug, but there you go. No, that was very good. All right. So, all right, a friend, Mike Rossoff Copilot is going to answer and it goes like this. There isn't really a line for a 25-year-old. It's more about what they like in the occasion, but I can absolutely point you in the right direction. Then they recommend safe, high-confidence recommendations, sparkling, Prosecco, Cava, white Sauvignon Blanc, Pinot Grigio, Anoque Chardonnay. There are little notes here that I'm skipping because Prosecco, fun, celebratory, not too serious, great for gifts or parties. If they want something cool or interesting, which is a very Binny's style move, natural or low intervention lines, Spanish or Portuguese, value lines or rose dry. Okay, vague. Very, very vague. Can you run the same question now that Gabe and I have said our parts and see if it gives you a different answer? Can you please answer the same question again? Here's another clean in character Binny's Wine Manager answer, slightly tighter and on the floor. This is creeping me out. It really knows. It's less about age and more about what they like, but for a lot of 25-year-olds, I'd point you to something that's easy to enjoy, not too heavy and good value. For reds, Pinot Noir, Beaujolais or a smooth Malbec are usually big hits, nothing too tannic or intimidating. For whites, Sauvignon Blanc, Pinot Grigio, or a clean un-oaked Chardonnay are safe popular choices, and if you're not asleep, Berserker or Cavalier are great if you want something fun that almost anyone enjoys. Is this for a gift, a party, or just something casual to drink? AI always finishes with a question to prod the... It'll do better when you give it more. But what I like about the answers that it's giving is a lot of times it kind of before it tells you what it's going to... Before it tells you Sauvignon Blanc or Pinot Grigio or whatever, it tells you a little bit of why, gives you a little bit of a language point. So the customer can in turn turn around like, I need soft white or I need un-oaked white or something like that. It gives you that kind of verbiage that really helps us start narrowing things down and guiding you. That's what it's about a conversation, not an answer, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But then that turns wacky because then you are having conversations with your computer. Welcome to LLM. But the answer did change. It did, yeah. I mean, it's not going to offer identical results, but it didn't carry my nugget of wisdom. Which is probably the best nugget in the room. Yeah, that was very good. All right. Jim is going to ask another question. Really quick, I would expect it to say something like, non-intervention wines, hipster wines. Yeah. Hey, do we have one of those? Do we have a hipster wine? This is kind of hipstery. Oh, my God. That's never happened in the history of this show. Bless your heart. Oh, man. Did you get it all over yourself? No, I didn't. That's good. That's the table, the floor, and no technology. I'm sorry that I failed you. I watched that like a slow motion car crash. I couldn't tell, but I couldn't use words. It could only create a high-pitched whining sound. Is that what that sound was? Was it audible for anyone else? I'll see. It's got a cork, and I don't think you would be able to tell that it's in or not, so. That was awesome. That never happened before in his trip, Barrel to Bottle. Yeah, we need to get it. Going home. Well, it shouldn't stay in your pants. I mean, that's big. I say that on the daily. That was awesome. It's a successful day if the pants remain unstained. Anyway. All right. Do we have a hipster wine? Kind of. I'm not allowed to touch the bottles anymore. Yeah. So we did bring something cool and fun, and does fall into that minimal intervention camp. This is from Day Wines in Oregon. Brian Day is the wine maker. We've started carrying these wines, oh, I don't know, five years ago or so, give or take. 100 percent Pinot Meunier. What? New to our shelves as of, I believe, the beginning of this year, if not the end of last. Really nice addition because previously, you might remember this, the only Pinot Meunier, still Pinot Meunier. Chandon. Exactly. Yeah, forever. That was the only one and that's been gone for a little bit. So when this came around, it was like, well, that's cool. But this is like nothing. This is a fun wine to drink. This is fun drinking wine. Why is it a hipster wine? Just because of Pinot Meunier or? Yeah. First of all, it's an oddball varietal. So if your 25-year-old is really out there and curious, that's really iconic class. That's a specific 25-year-old. There's also a 25-year-old who's like, hey guys, I brought a Pinot Meunier for watching the Super Bowl. Let's go. Is there? Yeah. Okay. So it's also Oregon and I don't know her wines as well as. Yeah. So generally speaking, I don't think that they're certified organic, but I do know that by and large she does practice in minimal intervention of winemaking. So probably principles of biodynamics organics as little as she can get away with in the winery, as little as she can get away with in the vineyards as well. It's a very non-stodgy looking label. It's a little stodgy. It's like a Art Nouveau kind of style. Yeah, but it's not just a cookie cutter of like, this is our label and we're going to change the words out. True. Which is kind of what I meant by stodgy. If that were a pillow on your grandmother's sofa, on her Davenport, it probably wouldn't be out of place. Okay, so this smells crazy. Yeah. It's like, I don't want to say Welch's Grape. It's more cherry fruit candy. Yeah. Like jam, but not sweet. For the wine geeks out there not smelling this wine with us, this kind of feels like a bridge between some more champagne, like Cab Franc, maybe a little bit of Gamay-ish. There's primary red fruit like you're talking about. There's a little bit of this mustardiness. It's like a loamy kind of dusty thing underneath the fruit. Yeah, a little bit of a spice tone, but not pretentious. This is like, again, that fruit's front and center. If you had a little chill on here, really fun. It's $20.99. What was the first one? Are we just saying that? I can't remember. The first one was $23.99. Great. Until it gets popular and that will be $50. They'll say it was a bad vintage or a good vintage. Then the palette here is grippy and racy. It's really grippy. I wouldn't expect that because I'm thinking Pinot Minet is kind of related to Pinot Noir, and it's not this firm, but this is really firm. It's firm on the side cheeks though, it's still really plushed down the middle of the tongue. Yeah, you're right. It's that broader pincushion kind of tannin. Very crushable summer red. I like the thought of putting a chill on it. Yeah. 13% on the alcohol. That's a fun wine for people scratching the itch of natural wine. People unsure about summer reds. Yeah. But yeah, you can- Get this because your Morgon now costs $45. There you go. There it is. Yeah. You're Greg Ver-sha taco night. Every Tuesday. Every Tuesday. Yeah. That should be a contender. Absolutely. I think a $25 would dig that. 26:18 Wine Headaches Hangovers Next question, which wines won't give me a headache? Wine is called moderation. But as Samuel Clemens told us, everything should be practiced in moderation, including moderation. Yeah. Okay, all right, I got my answer here. Locked in. I was really hoping that this one would come up, because, I mean, there's kind of like just a rock solid answer here, but what do you guys say? Good luck. Wines give me a headache. There is nothing about a specific wine that should give you a headache, but personally speaking, some things about wine could. Shouldn't give you a headache. Yeah. You finish that bottle, I can't tell you what's going to happen. Alcohol itself is a- Yeah. No wine is made to give you a headache. I can't imagine that if it was, sales would be very good. Right. People think cheap wines are going to give you a headache or something. I think that's kind of probably an urban or old wives' tale. The big one is sulfites, right? Well, we have a sulfites question too. They bleed in to each other for sure because sulfite allergen is actually, a true sulfite allergen is actually more of flu-like symptoms, if I had read that correctly in some point in time. But sulfite allergens are not off the table, but they're fairly uncommon. Right. People who have sulfite allergies know because they can't drink fruit juice or eat preserved or dried fruits because there's a greater concentration of sulfites in those foods than this as a preservative. By and large. On the headache, I will often ask people if there are other alcohols that, do they get the headache when they drink beer? Do they get the headache when they drink spirits? Right. Or what wines give you a headache? Yeah. Do they find it particular to a certain set of wines that has prompted this question? If this seems to be a habitual thing, I'll ask people to think about what they're doing when they consume wine. Are you having it with food? How much water have you had that day? Are you just in a hot tub for two hours? That's nice. That's good living. People often say, well, I don't get headaches when I go to Italy and drink wine. It must be these damn American wines. Yeah, probably didn't have to wake up for work. What is your overall daily activity like? You're on vacation, you're out exploring the world. When you're physically moving, your metabolism is running better. Some people can drink two bottles of wine on vacation, bottle at lunch, bottle at dinner, and wake up the next day feeling like a million bucks. Well, your system has been working a lot better than it normally does than when we sit on the couch and drink a bottle. Or sit at the standing desk. Yeah, you're totally right. Also, I think that some of the perception comes from that feeling the day after it was fun and you opened up one more bottle just for the hell of it to share with everyone, and then you wake up and your teeth are still red, and you can feel the effects of red wine in your mouth because it has sucked all of the moisture out of your head. Not to even mention all of the other mistakes that you made the night before, and you're like, wine, wine is the villain here. Couldn't be me. Yeah. So the idea of hydration, it's not even just like, well, I had water while I was drinking. It's like, yeah, but where is your body properly hydrated throughout the day and night? And that's why Binny's Barrel to Bottle supports electrolytes. It's like plants' crape. Damn it, Jon. I'm just going to say that. All right. Let's get to the looking glass here, fam. Let's see what AI has to say about it. AI. All right. AI. Right, right, right. Why does AI give me a headache? 15 years of doing this, I've never found an easy answer for anyone to absorb. All right. It does not start with the disclaimer of not being a doctor. Oh, not this time? Not this time. So it is a doctor. Headaches can come from a few different things, alcohol level, dehydration, and sometimes additives. So there's no wine that's 100% guaranteed, but there are styles I tend to bother people less. I'd usually recommend dry wines with lower alcohol and minimal additives. People do often do better with Pinot Noir, Beaujolais, Rioja, Chianti on the red side, for white Sauvignon Blanc, Alberino, Pinot Grigio. This is the same wines I was recommending before. Sorry. It already knows the basics. I'd avoid high alcohol wines, heavily-oaked styles. What's that got to do with anything? Anything sweet, they tend to be more headache-prone. Drink water alongside the wine and have it with food. Make a big difference too. Yeah. Okay. I mean, that's not wrong. It's fair. It's fine. I think maybe the little commentary on the heavily-oaked styles, some of those really big flashy wines are just like, they're so delicious that you find yourself consuming them faster. If you drink a bottle over the course of an hour versus over the course of three or four hours, you're going to feel very differently. Could also have to do with the fact that heavily-oaked wines tend to, but not always, have like three, four more points of alcohol in them. Yeah. True. You're going from a Bud Light to a, I don't know, name a heavy beer. An Imperial. Heavy beer. Bud to Bud. Absolutely. Bud heavy. Sure. I don't even think they're different beers. Yeah. I think if consumers want big, rich, ripe, hedonistic wines like a heavily oak chardonnay or like a big, massive like Zinn blend or something super modern like that, that's when you got to practice moderation. I can suggest it, but it's up to you. If you want to finish that bottle, go for it. Just live through that headache. Next question. Well, this is also another one that's going to cover what Jon just covered, but I don't know if it's going to pick up what we asked it. When I drink wine in Italy, I don't get a hangover, but I get hangovers at home. Why? There is nothing that goes into European wine that's different than American wine. There's nothing that they're adding or subtracting that's different than anywhere else in the world by and large. I have had someone tell me that, oh yeah, they put sulfites in the stuff they send to America. I say, okay, so in this place that is making barrels upon barrels, we're talking about more commodity wines. Where you're walking in and here's like 50 or 100 plus tanks fermenting all at the same time. They're not saying like, okay, put sulfites in those 25 tanks, but we're going to leave the rest alone. Give those rubes in America their sulfite. Dang it, Franco, you mixed the sulfite batch in with the not sulfite. You mixed the headache wine in with the... The only thing that I could think of, and you really got to find yourself like off the beaten path in any European, like really in like a back of a barn somewhere, someone's got a little globe of wine. Most major cities are going to carry wines that are internationally distributed. Like your best wines in Italy also come to America. Unless you find yourself in some really small, small, tiny town where like Francesco down the road made it, like cool. It's all going to be made the same way. What does AI say about this? We hear that all the time. AI, you don't work here. AI, you're on bathrooms. We hear that all the time. It's usually not about Italian wine. It's magically different. It's more about how the wine is made, how you're drinking it there. In Italy, you're often drinking lower alcohol wines, usually with food and in smaller amounts. That alone makes a huge difference. Many Italian wines are also less manipulative, fewer additives, less residual sugar, and more traditional winemaking. Some people find these styles easier on their system. Here, people tend to drink bigger pours, higher out wines, sometimes without food, which is more likely to lead to a hangover. Usually without. Yeah, that's not a great answer. Kind of a BS answer. It goes on to explain why Italian wines are more dry and less likely to give you a hangover, but it's not differentiating Italian wine there and here. I guess it kind of touches though, the point that it touches about less intervention, less additive, that could be- Is that for real? I mean- No, not necessarily. Especially for drinking the same wine here versus there, for drinking some Italian wine there and here. If it's the same versus here, it's the same wine. Same is the same. Well, yeah, obviously, different wines from different places are going to be different, but if you're drinking all things being equal, if you're drinking an Italian wine here or there- But your top producers of Italy are not necessarily using techniques that wouldn't be used by your top producers in Chile or your top producers in the United States. Yeah, especially for those wines that are made in a more international style and not traditional style. Can we chalk this up to Caribe syndrome? Caribe syndrome too. Could be that. Calique. It's called different things on different Mediterranean and or Caribbean islands. Caribe beer. But there's always a beer that's just only available on that island. And people come back and they're like, it was the best beer I've ever had. You guys gotta carry this beer, it's so good. And it's just- Dude, that's PBR, but you were on vacation. I've never heard of that. Wine guys. The saying is, burgundy tastes better in burgundy. Yeah. Awesome. Are you thanking it? Sometimes. Okay, good. Let's keep going, comma, next question, colon. Awesome. We live in the future, guys. Wait, stop, no, I have to delete that. And that. What wine would you serve at a brunch or baby shower? 35:31 Brunch Baby Shower Wines This Pinot Bianco, maybe. All right, go. What do you like to drink in the afternoons if it's not a stiff glass of bourbon? Yeah, you want things that are gonna be generally crowd pleasing, accessible. You're probably gonna want a little fizz, a little bubblage. You're gonna want like a Prosecco. You could do champagne, but I think it's gonna be a little too hardy, but maybe you're mixing. Maybe you want something a little easy. So yeah, Cava, Prosecco, lighter white wines, easier white wines. I mean, if you need a red, but think about where the context of this event's gonna be. Is it banquet hall? Is it your house? Is it your backyard? Is it at a restaurant? What are you serving? Did I have too much red wine in my glasses? Is it supposed to be white? Because it looks like a rosé. I mean, I guess this one does have just like a hair color. Pinot, the white Pinot family can pick up a little bit of a greying effect. So this is a fun one that we picked out. It's new to us, but I think it would be great for a baby shower situation. This is Alois Legator, Mistomare. This is their Bianco. Is that Alsace? No, this is from the Dolomites. This is- It's Italian. It's super Italian. It's so Italian, it's almost Swiss. Agree with the lighter fare on the wines for afternoon parties. Something sparkling, lighter whites, lighter reds. Most people aren't going to be drinking very much, and a lot of these afternoon parties here in the Midwest are often outside. So you don't want anything that's going to be, you don't want to serve massive cabs in the middle of summer afternoon when it could be potential. It could be 70 degrees, it could be 105 degrees. Everybody's wearing white shorts and boat shoes. Yeah, Rosé is your friend, Bublige is your friend. Yeah, keep it easy. Actually, I like that Pinot Meunier for an afternoon red. Yeah, that's a good one, yeah. All right, AI answers, exactly the same as you, except also exactly the same way that it's been answering this whole time. For brunch or baby shower, you want wines that are light, festive and easy to sip, nothing heavy or high alcohol. Go-to picks almost always first sparkling, Prosecco, Cava, Cremont, other white wines, Sauvignon Blanc, Pinot Grigio, Alborino, Riesling. Rosé, a big yes here, Dry Rosé, province style. I think this is interesting though. It goes into a sales technique. Back into the voice, is this more brunchy brunch or shower shower? Do you want something for mimosas or just easy sipping? If you want, I can pick three bottles of wine that cover everything, recommend great non-alcoholic options or tailor this for a large group or a smaller upscale event, which does kind of touch down where you're talking about the context of either Yeah, that's how Mike's thinking. He could swing on the sales floor. He could hang out. NA options is a really good idea too, especially with the baby shower type thing. Yeah. Let's have something available that the mom to be can also enjoy without having to feel like, oh, they got me this other thing. The quality of non-alcoholic products across the board has gotten so much better, so much more consistent. Wine is really picking it up. Beer has already found its stride. I mean, even all the liquor alternatives, there's some fun stuff. That's a great idea. That's something for mom, so that she doesn't feel bad that she has to be the only one not drinking. Now, let's talk about this white wine some more. This is really good. If I was guessing it, I would guess like Edelsweik or something like that. We'll never know, because even their website says this is a blend of 14 grapes, both red and white. None of which you've heard of, both red and white? No, they just won't list them. I imagine to kind of... So this is... Legator apparently is using Vintner Partners. This is Bianco, not Pinot Bianco. Yeah, I made that. This is white. This is white. Is what the label tells us. This is a white. I don't know, mine looks pink. Like we all poured it in our glasses. You didn't rinse. We all almost rinsed. Let's get back to that. How showery is the shower going to be? Is this a brunchy brunch? Is it raining? Showery. When I first saw the question, I thought it was, I thought it was asking like, what would you recommend for a shower wine? Because people drink shower beers. They sure do. People do. Sometimes they have a shower. We did sell that little thing that you could stick on to tile and it would hold a wine glass. Yeah. Let's bring that back. Nicole, I know you're listening. Next question. 39:55 First Growth Bordeaux Should I buy first growth? Yes. I think I want AI to answer first. Yeah. I think it's going to... Yeah. It depends on why you're buying it. First growths are incredible wines, but they're not always the best choice for most people. They usually break it down like this. When it does make sense, if this is for a milestone occasion, a serious collector or a once in a lifetime bottle, then yes, first growths absolutely deliver on pedigree and longevity. They're also a safe bet if you're buying for someone who really understands Bordeaux. If you're opening it anytime soon, you're often paying more for the name than the drinking experience. Many first growths need years, sometimes decades to show their best. For the same money, you can buy multiple bottles that drink better right now. Yeah, that's fair. It also recommends super seconds, top right bank estates, great vintages from fifths or seconds. Okay, now what? That's kind of word salad there. Yeah. So, it says super seconds, top right bank, great vintages from fifth or second growths, or even modern Bordeaux blends from outside France that deliver power and polish. So, it's like, I don't know, it's just kind of tap in second growths too many times in that paragraph from my liking. If Chris wrote that, I would give it back to him and ask for another paragraph. Yeah. Okay. So, no need to double dip on that, but it does bring up the talking point that you look at Ponte Cane, and Lynch Bage, their fifth growths. But, you know, that was classified 170 years ago. Yeah. Lot has changed at those properties. And so they've elevated some, you know, pretty close to first growth quality in some years. And by the same token, there's some second growths that are not necessarily measuring up to what they were 170 years ago. Would you say that's reflected in the price of those bottles, and that has evolved the market outside of the growths system? Absolutely. Because if you compare, like you look at what the most expensive fifth growths are, like it's Lynch Bage and Ponte Canne, and those can get kind of lofty in some years. You look at the top fourth growths of today are much more expensive than the rest. The top second growths are much more expensive than the rest. Ditto thirds. The point that it makes is, what do you want to do with this bottle is something that we talk about a lot, because I would never steer someone away from buying a first growth. You want it by all means. You could drink it however you want. But I'm going to try and find the best experience for you based off of what it is you want to do with that bottle. You want to sell it by and large. First growths, if not Bordeaux in general, are steady at ease for 20 years, if that's kind of your ballpark there. But if you want to drink it sooner rather than later, well, I'm just going to look for something that has age in my cellar one way or the other. And in many instances, it's still in the first growth camp. We got some backlogs on some producers, particularly Mouton and Lafitte, Latour not being on the standard on Premiere system. They're releasing non-sequential vintages and when they're a little more confident in those binds hit in the market. So that's always a good option. That was an excellent answer. I would like that inspired something in my brain. I would like to point out that asking AI, it's getting us these answers that are pretty much spot on, but contextually, they don't make a lot of sense. I have gotten a phone call from my mom and she's like, I'm in the grocery store, what wine should I get? I'm like, well, I don't even know what you're working with here. Kind of like if you called up your wine expert aunt asking for advice, well, they don't know what story you're standing in. And yeah. But we know that inventory really well. Inventory really well. One thing, a Jon moment from when him and I worked at Oakbrook together, and I was just a little sapling of a wine consultant at the time. It's like four years ago. That Oakbrook wine cellar was rich, rich with really, really cool wine. And the clientele would be inclined to buy it. We'd get some really cool clientele for that very reason. And Jon had, there's a guy that came in who wanted a bottle of Petruse. And for the listeners that don't know what Petruse is, it's almost about as much money as you could spend on Merlot in the world. And this guy was, I mean, he had had some wealth of experience in wine, but not as much as Jon. But Jon, in the best possible way, gave him the rundown of like, here's what you can anticipate from this not very old bottle of Chateau Petruse. But here's something else for you. Here's Mesetto. Mesetto is also some of the best Merlot that money can buy. And at the time, it was much, much, much, much less, even than it is now. And I remember this vividly. You said something to the effect, you had a rapport with a customer, mind you. He was trusting you already. And you said, go home tonight with a bottle of Mesetto, open this, and if you like it, I'll let you buy a bottle of Petruse. You said you were going to let him? You took his life into your heads and say, no, no, no, don't take another step closer to the edge until you're ready. Until you're ready, you're going to let him buy something? I loved it. I've held on to that for so long. Jon was not about to let this guy drop two grand on a bottle of wine just for him to find out. It's probably more than that. 3500. Yeah, just to find out that he's just like fair weather on this. And then he's going to poo poo Petruse and Merlot all together. He's like, no, spend 300 clams on some Macedo night. If this is tickling you, come back. I'll let you have another taste. That's taco night wine there, the Macedo. The analogy I like to use for opening a wine too early is if he bought that bottle of Petruse and he drank it that night and finished the whole thing, even if he saved half of it for the next day and finished it the next day, I often will tell people, if you drink that wine in that way without it being in the right age or you don't decant it properly. It's kind of like going to the fireworks show and leaving five minutes before the grand finale. The whole reason that you showed up, the whole reason you got the wine, you're never going to experience if you don't let it be and you don't treat it, do what you're supposed to do with it. You're missing the best part. Exactly. And if you miss the best part, don't blame the wine. Yeah. Or the wine consultant who told you not to do it. Well, if you spend give or take 1000 bucks on something, you finesse it a little bit. You got to get the most out of it. And you're not going to, it's like buying a really expensive sports car, but you can't get into second gear. Like it's just not going to let your money do the work. So should you buy first growth? Probably. But just make sure that you are knowing what you're getting into. And you're prepared to not only invest the money for it, but invest the time to wait for it to be ready and the time to build the proper experience to get the full experience. Otherwise, no. This is the part where you're like, and we brought a properly aged first growth. We brought a properly aged. Oh, well. Don't even know if, and to Jon's point, I like that he mentioned time. If you can afford this time, have a little time in mind before buying this wine, because Binny's can find cool wine for you. Even if you go to a wine cellar as rich as Oakbrook's, there is stuff across the chain that if you're after it, and maybe it's something that has a little age, maybe it's a first growth that has the time or the year that you need, we can do our Good point. Oakbrook plug, I just reset the wine cellar with all the crazy Bordeaux deliveries that we've been getting for the last three months. Yeah. We've got a dozen vintages of Lafite. Wow. A dozen? A dozen. Yeesh. Ten vintages of Margot, six of Mouton, four O'Brien, and three Latour. Yeah. So why aren't we doing a dozen Lafite episode? The flight episode. Yeah. If you're a Binny's Wine Consultant listening to this, I challenge you to sell Jon's cellar out from under him. That's amazing. Yeah. So yeah, the product's there. We've got stuff back to the 90s. Yeah. We've done some special orders to go even older. Yeah. Slap on your Zubaz and grab one of those 90s vintages. Now, we have Malartic La Gravier, 2014. 14. Interesting vintage. Not the blockbuster of 15, 16, 19, nor 9 or 10. But a bit of a workhorse and they've really found themselves in a good stride lately. Last few years have been generous to 14. The age on these bottles has treated them well. For being 12 years old, this doesn't really smell that old. The fruit is not super primal, but it's not dusty or it's not tea. There's maybe cocoa and cedar and orange marmalade under there, which I associate with age. Also, it's still really red. Yeah. This is a great argument to be looking at some 14s. If you have them in your cellar, if you find them in stores. I've been pretty happy with 14s, but before we say that, can we throw an extra question, random to AI, was 2014 a good vintage in Bordeaux? That's a great question. Bam! Take that AI unprepared. Yeah. I love that. You just ruined. It heard you say that. Was 2014 a good vintage in Bordeaux? Yes. 2014 was good. Very classic Bordeaux vintage, especially if you like balance over power. It wasn't much of a blockbuster year like 2010 or 2016, but it is listening to you. It wasn't a blockbuster year like 2010 or 2016, but it made elegant food-friendly wines. The best wines have bright acidity, moderate alcohol, and good structure, which makes them age well and drink nicely now. Quality is strongest on the left bank, places like Boyac, Saint-Julien, and Margot, but there are very good right bank wines too. This does have bright acidity, actually. Yeah. I'm a fan of the 14 vintage. I like these, a lot of these shoulder years that are more classic. It was spot on with the comparing to other years. Very important because people are more familiar with those, but to be able to add that this is not going to be one of those blockbuster years in hype or in style. This is much more reserved and old school, and I like that because I think that in those years, I like those years 2014 and 2004 because the lack of hype-ness I think allows the individual terroir of the region and each estate to show more. Because it's not hidden behind alcohol and fruit. Exactly. When I drink Bordeaux, that's what I want. When I drink Malartic Le Gravier, I want it to taste like Malartic Le Gravier. Classification-wise, this was not in the 1855 classification, but it does say Grand Cru Class A, because there were a couple of classifications for Gravier and Pesac Lignon in the 1950s, where it was classified and it was one of six estates where both the white and the red earned the Grand Cru Class A. Uh-huh. Nice. Blah, blah, blah. Very good. This wine just hit a good amount of Binny's stores. This 2014 is a current seller release. Current seller, yeah. We just picked this up or just got it back on the shelves. $59.99. This, I mean, hitting on a few things. First off, 13% alcohol, 13.5. This is perfectly dry wine. If you're diabetic or concerned about your sugars or your alcohol, it's like this is a great option for you. It's a luxurious option. It's an interesting option. If you're a 25-year-old that you're shopping for, if they do have a budding career in the wine industry or in hospitality, this is a really cool bottle to get them. They would be very happy. Big time educational of like, what does a mature wine taste like? Yeah, there it is. This is well matured and it's not a day too old. It's really well balanced and it's complex and it's not flashy. It's good. Do we got time for a couple more questions? I do have two questions. So, real questions that I've gotten on the sales floor. What is a good wine for an 18-year-old? To which I said, should I save my answer until we see what? Yeah, I want to see what it says. Yes. The answer is out. Say, wait, thinking. Ah, okay. What did you tell him? Go, yeah, what did you tell him? Legal drinking age is 21. And if you're telling me that you are planning on purchasing for someone who is underage, I cannot sell you anything today. If you are telling me that you are buying for someone who is underage, we will not sell you. Yeah, there you go. So, there's some cut time. I took the version of tips in Iowa when I was in college because I was selling booze in Iowa. And at the time at least, the state law was, a kid can drink in a bar with their parent if their parent is buying for them. I think that's in Wisconsin. Yeah, it's in Wisconsin stuff too, I think. That's a good law. You can serve alcohol. That's so much fuzzy gray area in the whole conversation. It's just a big old problem. All right, what does AI say? AI says, AI doesn't do what you do, it spins it into a sales opportunity. So, if this is in the US, we can't recommend alcohol for anyone under 21. That said, if you're shopping for a celebration, like graduation, family brunch, or shower where an eight-tenth-year-old will be present, I can absolutely help you pick something appropriate and festive. First try non-alcoholic options, including any sparkling grape juice or cider, and Prosecco style has improved a lot. Then it pivots to if they're from somewhere where 18 is legal and then go for it. The other question no doubt got was, what's a good wine for a pregnant woman? So, what's a good wine for a pregnant woman? What did you say to that? First growth. That's where I took the non-alcoholic spin. Well, we've got some really great non-alcoholic options that people have been very happy with. There you go. If someone is pregnant, the safest recommendation is no alcohol at all. We wouldn't suggest any alcoholic wine, but we do have some great non-alcoholic options that still feel special. Non-alcoholic and low-risk alternatives include non-alcoholic sparkling wine, non-alcoholic rosé, sparkling juice or cider, botanical or tea-based wine alternatives. That's a good little insight from our selection here at the store. Yeah. I'm waiting for it to say if the customer comes from a part of the world that does allow you to drink while pregnant, here's what you can do. Can we ask AI if Greg Versch likes wine? Does Greg Versch like wine? I think he knows who I am. He does know. Based on this conversation alone, yes, it's very likely that Greg Versch likes wine. You've asked nuanced real-world questions, focused on how retail professionals actually talk to customers, shown interest in style balance, occasions, and drinkability, not just labels or prestige, and you kept coming back for the next question, Are you by chance doing a podcast where you're trying to prove that AI doesn't know what it's talking about? I think AI is hitting on me. So, I would stop now. Okay. All right. All right. Should we do one more? You got one more? I need a wine that is not sweet and not dry. Wait a minute. Really? Yeah. Thank you. Next question, comma, I need a wine that is not sweet and not dry. Gabe, what say you? Not sweet but not dry? Yeah. If we're going red wine, I'm going to take them to a very simple and accessible Beaujolais. If we're talking about white wine, I'm going to take them to off dry Riesling or Vouvray. Oh, Vouvray. Yeah. Yeah, that's my answer. That's Chenin Blanc. Yeah. In white Rhone. Any excuse I can get in to a Chenin, I'm in white Rhone, good call. Yeah. I think this is a little bit of a similar answer to what the 25-year-old was. It was softer, more fruit forward. Approachable ones. Because when someone says dry, I think they often mean dry-ing. I think you're right. Yeah, and so, yeah. Yeah. Got it. What you're really looking for is something balanced with a touch of fruit but no obvious sweetness. Some wines taste dry but feel soft and fruity, and some have a tiny bit of a residual sugar that's balanced by acidity so they don't come across as sweet. Try Pinot Gris from Alsace, Oregon. Chenin Blanc, Fouvre or similar. German Riesling Cabinet or Fine Herb. What's Fine Herb? It's like a riper harvest. Oh. Gewurztraminer, dry to off-dry. How do we do this without saying Gewurztraminer? The whole thing? No, just this question. That's a good answer. Gewurztraminer. Because there's eight million wines. This person just said, I don't want something sweet or dry. We're not going to wrestle with the name Gewurztraminer. Gewurztraminer, you're right. Take it to the mat with that. I think what we learned here is that just like AI art, AI answer is good from far but far from good. You look up close at an AI painting and at an AI artwork and there's seven fingers and the face looks like a paralysis sleep demon and it's just all messed up. But from far back, it's like, oh, that looks normal. In a flash, it looks good. Yeah, in a little flash, it's full of generality. Yeah. I think that these answers are, there's something there but you need more depth in there. We're not getting that from AI. I like that people want to use it as a tool and they will stand there and continue feeding it and feeding it and oftentimes, they're talking into their phone because no one else is listening. Yeah. But they'll feed this machine until they feel like they get an answer of some sort only to look up and be like, well, I don't know where to find that here. Yeah. Yeah. What Binny's Wine Professionals do, ultimately, is I think two things. We share our passions because we do have favorites and we're excited about them. Just as much as you are, we're excited about this stuff. The other thing we do is we inspire confidence that the customer is making the right decision. We've already curated this set of products and we stand by the stuff we sell. Either it's such a top seller that we have to carry it, or it's something that our wine buyers have chosen because they've tasted it and they absolutely love it. They think they'll sell. Yeah, that's the human touch. That's what we do. We're there to be with you during that experience and to make it better. The answers were a lot better than I expected. Yeah. If we were to take the intellectual and textbook expectations, man, they were pretty spot on for a lot of stuff. This thing read Karen McNeil, right? Well, it's aware that Karen McNeil has a book. Karen, you in there? Yeah. Thank you for answering these questions. I think this also inspired some interesting conversation that gets me thinking about wine and that gets me thirsty for wine. Thank you for sharing these four really interesting, I don't want to say like hidden gems because these aren't like super secrets, but these are off the beaten path. These are good wines. These are a little bit out there. Yeah. Menotu Ceylon, get it in your mouth. Honestly, people need to know about this. They need to know about this. You need to reconsider how you're drinking Sancerre. That's what they got to do. Okay. Yeah. Yep. All right. That was fun. We'll probably throw one of these in the ninja slushy machine after this or something. I don't know. We'll be back next week in your feed with something fine. Thank you for listening to Barrel to Bottle The Binnys Podcast. I'm Greg. I'm Gabe. I'm Jon. I'm Jim. Keep tasting. A.I.'s like, keep tasting.