Welcome back, you're listening to another episode of Barrel to Bottle, The Binny's Podcast. I'm your host Pat. With me today, we've got the Whiskey Hotline edition for Barrel to Bottle. I've got Joe in the room with me today. What's up, Joe? Hey now. Hey now. All right. We got Brett here too. Hello. Welcome back, Brett. It's been a while. Yeah, I know. It has been. I've been busy. Yeah. We don't invite you around often either. And we've also got Shannon in with us. How are you doing, Shannon? I'm doing swell. All right. We got a special guest here too. Who's that, Shannon? That is Mr. David Carpenter from Redemption Whiskey. Oh, Redemption Whiskey. All right. And David, you are the master blender at Redemption, is that correct? That's correct. It's a pleasure to be here. Oh, that's a hell of a title. All right, cool. Well, Redemption we've had for a while now. This was a small brand started, I mean, what, like maybe 10 years ago or something? Yeah, right around that. About that. And then it kind of got in the bourbon and rye boom. It really grew, especially with the excessively priced bourbon and that famous 95% high rye content rye. And it has kind of grown from there. You've got a couple, you know, line extensions with some older barrel proof stuff. We've got some handpicked single barrels on the way. So, I mean, let's give us a breakdown of your role at the brand, kind of what you're looking for when you're putting these batches of whiskey together. And then we'll start tasting through them. Sure thing. With the Redemption brand, we're really focused on the flavor grains, not so much on the corn itself, but on the rye in particular. And then also the wheat for our Redemption, weeded bourbon. But for me, when I'm looking through these different barrel samples, I'm specifically looking to let that grain shine through and not have the barrel overtake it. The barrel is there just to accent what I'm detecting from the grain itself, especially with this rye that we're getting from Germany and Sweden. It's a special grain with special flavors. That should be the star of the show for me when I'm going through a blend. Cool. Now, Joe is a particular fan of more grain forward bourbons. Would you agree with that, Joe? It depends, Pat. I think that I usually am a fan of the best tasting bourbon I can find. But yeah, maybe more often than not, it tends to be the big green heavy ones. What a punt that answer was. I'm running for office this year for mayor of Bourbon Town. If we're going to start with Redemption, we want to start with the basic bourbon, right? Now, you've got a bourbon and a high rye bourbon. What's the big difference here? The main difference here is, as a general rule, our redemption lineup is going to be higher rye content than what you would normally get from a lot of your other bourbons. The lowest rye content we have is this Redemption bourbon. You have going around now at 21% rye, then that's 75% corn and 4% malted barley. And 21 is still significantly higher than most other bourbons out there. Exactly. A lot of your other bourbons, you might see 10 to 13%. So we're almost double that right there. But Bottle at a Light 84 Proof. This is going to be a sweet and lighter introduction into the redemption profile. It's going to be very accessible to most people. Just light on the palate. It's not trying to be a 12 year old barrel proof bottle. It is meant to be that introduction to higher rye bourbon whiskies. And then we'll step into the high rye bourbon, which a lot of people get confused with the rye whiskey sometimes. I've even seen it shelved in the rye whiskey sometimes. But it is just a higher rye content than our previous Redemption Bourbon, going all the way up to 36% on that rye content. So this 21 here, straight bourbon whiskey, they're at least two years old, these guys. Is there a particular age you're looking for when you're blending? Or are you just purely on grain flavor profile? I'm looking at a range in this current blend. When I'm going through, I'm looking at a 90-10 rule for me. 90% consistency and 10% refinement. So that's going to change over time, but it's all going to be at least straight two-year-old whiskey, both for the bourbon and the rye. Right now, our average age is averaging out to around three years, being a blend of two- to four-year-old barrels. The first thing that jumps out to me is how kind of sweet and fruit-forward this is for rye, but then it really comes back with a punch of that kind of classic rye spice, that punchy spice in the finish. That rye grain kind of hangs in a lot at the finish, and it's pretty lengthy, especially for something that's... For a younger whiskey, though, it's got quite an enduring finish, we would say. Yeah, the fruit on the nose is really quite pleasant. Kind of honeyed pears. Yeah, honeyed pears. Yeah, really. It's not getting covered up by that. Yeah, that palm fruit does come through the pear and apple in the middle and the back, but still has a little bit of spice, a little bit of mint, that spearmint note. Yeah, there's still some backbone to it. It's not just that sweetness of the candied fruit notes. You do have the balance, a little bit of that spiciness, sort of a base note coming through just to keep it in balance. Yeah, it's very well balanced throughout. What do you think of this one, Shannon? I love it. I think it's a great, as you said, start for anybody who's looking to get into that higher rye content and rye whiskeys. Beautiful, citrusy. I kind of get a little citrusiness from it too. I think it's very well-rounded, good balance to it. I like using bourbons like this in kind of some of those classic bourbon cocktails because it doesn't get quite as fat and sweet. You still have that nice punchy spice note that, you know, we talked about the balance in the whisky itself, but it provides a lot of balance in a cocktail as well. For sure. It's another fun one to sneak in on people too. They think they need a really old bourbon to taste good. yes, this is, like you said, averaging out at three years old, but you put this in front of somebody blind and they're probably not going to guess. Yeah, taste it blind. It's definitely mature beyond its years for sure. Part of that is probably undoubtedly those warehouses where it's matured too, right? I mean, you got a pretty unique warehouse situation down in southern Indiana. You want to break that down? Absolutely. Down there at the MGP Distillery in Lawrenceburg, Indiana. It's one of the greatest rye distilling distilleries in the world. We're glad to have them as our partner and focusing on a rye forward grain because they've been doing it for over 150 years. Yeah. And those warehouses really help us with keeping that grain forward profile, being these large brick and concrete, heavy walls, heavy floors, higher humidity, as a general rule as well, than your, say, your wooden high airflow warehouses. Yeah, and something you'd see down in Kentucky that are thin walls, just wood frame. Right there on the other side of the Ohio River. yes, with these, it helps us to keep that oak at bay and just allowing that longer, just a maturity and oxidation of our grain notes coming through and that fruitiness that you see not getting covered up. And with a humid warehouse like that, do you see alcohol percentages drop over time? As a rule. Yeah, and so we'll probably see that when we talk about some of these older barrel proof offerings. Exactly. Yeah, going in at 120, it's been a while since I've seen a barrel that was still at 120. Wow. Very unique for America. It's pretty cool. Those are cool warehouses. We had the privilege of obviously going in one with you this past summer when we were down there for barrel picks and walking into one of those warehouses sometimes can be overwhelming because it's so humid and there's such a strong alcohol vapor I'll never forget that. It was just like breathing it. It was coming in your eyes. Yeah, I've never I've been in a lot of warehouses. I've never been in another warehouse like that. No, no. I mean, it's closer to Scottish than it is to typical bourbon or rye warehouses in Kentucky or tennessee, certainly. Yeah, but those those level of alcohol in the air there, I definitely felt like I needed a respirator. Yeah, and you didn't have to tell me, don't take pictures because I was afraid of any flash. Exactly. Got to watch your electronics. No sparks. Let's try this high rye bourbon next time. You said this is 36% rye, right? yes, so we bring that corn content down to 60%, then 36% rye, still that consistent 4% malted barley. So bringing that corn content down, reducing the sweetness a little bit, really bringing that rye even more forward. Also bringing up that base note with the 36% rye and bringing the proof up as well from 84 to 92. This is another one that really start talking about classic cocktails. This one really fits into that space. With that extra proof, you have more wiggle room when you're mixing in. Are either of these non-chill filtered? these are going to be both chill filtered. Okay. yes. Is that something you see the brand may be moving toward? At some point, we've seen increasing demand from customers for whiskeys that are non-chill filtered. yes. Moving forward, we will have more whiskeys that are non-chill filtered, including some barrels that may be coming in here soon that will be non-chill filtered. I'm very happy to be able to offer that for our customers. Moving forward, because you do get just such a great mouthfeel from a non-chill filtered whisky, the pure bourbon or rye whisky palette as well. A big fan of non-chill filtered myself. Well, and on something like this with this rye content, which is really super spicy, it would not, it wouldn't be hurt. It would absolutely benefit if there were some little bit more heft. And I think one of the things, the biggest thing you lose in our mind or in my mind is that weight and mouth feel and structure. Yeah, right. Rye tends to make things lean too. So yeah, and you re exactly. You already have sort of attenuated really lean flavors. But right on the nose, though, this is, you know, you're never going to mistake this for the last one either. I mean, it's not like it doesn't seem like appreciably that much more rye, but it really jumps. Yeah. Bringing that corn content down really makes that little bit more rye shine even more through. And really, with this EU rye that we're using, you get these great herbal notes coming through. You start thinking like Fisherman's Friend or lozenges. What the hell are those? Fisherman's Friend? The craziest little like brown lozenges. You've obviously never gone crabbing on the East Coast. No, I have not. I've missed that, yeah. But it has this great herbal, sort of like a licorice, anise, you know, like a clove, cardamom type nose to it and flavor. It just really coats the palate. You think like a root beer almost. Okay. Well, definitely getting those kind of classic woodier baking spices in here, clove for sure, anise, you know, all that kind of peppery spice you associate with more rye. What percentage of the rye that is used in your bottling is imported from Europe versus coming from where would be more typical minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota, Southern Canada? For these bottles, that's all going to be that German and Swedish rye. No, couldn't. And is this grown in Germany and Sweden to be distillers and brewers rye or was this food-grade? To my knowledge, yeah, this is based in actually going to distilleries and breweries. Yeah, for making a nice, is that a Roggen beer in there in Germany? And it's a completely different flavor profile to your North American rye up in like the Pacific northwest, which I usually associate with biscotti, doughy or pastry type notes, instead of that heavy herbal dill mint that we get from this high rye interesting. OK, and probably more efficient because that's a big green for them to distill with. Yeah, there's a lot of vodka in there. Yeah, I wonder what the yield is in the still house with the EU versus American. That'd be interesting. Well, this is a really good bourbon as well. It is. No, this is definitely a favorite in my house. I get in trouble if I leave the house on a trip and there's not at least one bottle sitting in. Yeah. I like the additional spice that gets worked into this, but the sweetness is still there. Yeah, and you still get the fruit there too. It's just the spice has moved up a couple notches, it's still kind of fat and chewy fruit in there though. Yeah, it's not on balance though. Like the last one I thought did a great job of highlighting that rye can be fruity and honeyed still, but it still has that base, that core of spice, and this one is just like, spice can be the star of the show, but it's still wrapped in that soft Yeah, but they're savory and dry. I mean, some people might confuse this a little bit for some wood character, maybe a little bit more wood character comes out because like you said, the doughy pastry style that you'd expect from a North American rye, especially like the Maryland, Pennsylvania style, which are really chewy and minty and dill. Exactly. these are more of the anise pepper dry sorts of things, which I think sometimes people do confuse for wood. Yeah, for sure. I mean, people taste the spice and a lot of times, they'll associate any kind of spiciness or pepperiness with wood. these are on the younger side too and it's not wood. I mean, this is purely grain forward like you had mentioned. This one screams grain. Well, you know what, Pat? I think maybe your opening statement might be correct. I think maybe I tend to like grain forward stuff a little bit more. What should we try next? Should we try Barrel Strength Bourbons probably or you want to go to the rye? I think we should go ahead and go on to the rye so we can stay in the same proof wheelhouse. So this is going to be the same proof as that high rye bourbon at 92 proof. But now, switching over to that rye whiskey, you're looking at that 95.5 recipe. Look at that 95 percent of that EU rye, five percent malted barley. So no corn whatsoever. The shocking thing with this one is, I like to explain to people, you know, corn is what gives us our sweetness in bourbon. But this rye, not having any corn in it at all, still has a surprising amount of sweetness. And part of that is because that high rye content has a bit more of a viscosity to it in the finished whiskey. And your palate discerns a viscous thicker fluid as being sweet. Playing tricks on the tongue. Exactly. It's sort of a matter over mind, instead of mind over matter in this case. It's almost a trickle coming through there with that thicker palate, making you think there's sweetness there. Well, and just on the nose, this is also now, this is what rye is supposed to smell like. Yeah. I mean, this is unmistakably that minty herbal. I get the dill for me. Dill. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people start talking about pickles. I had to try to refine that down to... Do you mean pickles or do you mean dill? Why not both? It's not very cucumber-y. Exactly. I hope not. That green vegetal will sort of keep that out a little bit. But I also start to think at this point is that caraway seed from a nice seeded rye bread. And that caraway seed just really just... When you bite into one of those, that's what I get from this rye in particular, is that spiciness while at the same time, you're just a huge herbal hit. For me, going back in my background, I was a chef for 10 years. This long culinary history. I like to go to those culinary spices when I'm describing the different flavors in my whiskey and even the barrels sitting in the warehouse. I think of them as those extra spices in the spice rack when I'm looking at those blends. So yeah, the food crossover with whiskeys like this is almost 100%. That's interesting. You're looking at a warehouse like a spice cabinet. I mean, what's the day to day life for you as a blender of these batches? Is this something, how often are you having to pull barrels and put things together? I mean, I know these brands are pretty big now. You see this stuff at a lot of bars, a lot of restaurants. It's a much bigger brand than it was when we first started working with it almost a decade ago. Do you have to taste every single barrel? Are you identifying production runs that have a particular character? And then, you know, a different production run maybe gave you a little more of that doughy, sweet character, and you're just trying to marry things? Yeah. So for day to day samples will come to my house or I'll go visit the distillery and pick up samples while I'm there. And with that, I'm not looking so much at individual barrels as I am lots. And these lots from specific warehouse floors, from specific warehouses that were distilled at different times of year. That's one thing I have to start looking at is if something was distilled in November and we're pulling it, you know, three years later at the beginning of summer, it's gotten one less summer heat cycle than something that was distilled in June of that same year and then being pulled at summer again. You know, I got that little bit, just a few more months of that summer heat, which is very important, especially since these warehouses down there at MGP, the heat cycle within those warehouses is Because those thick brick and concrete walls and floors? Yeah, that was a question I was going to ask. Do you target or are you pulling from a cross section of the warehouse or are you typically stored on, you know, higher floors, medium floors, lower floors? Because it would seem to me that there's less top to bottom variants because of the structure of the warehouse. But there's going to be top to bottom variants nonetheless. We've gone into the basement there and that is like being in Scotland. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Except for the alcohol, whereas towards the top, you start to get a little bit closer to a typical environment you would expect in Kentucky. yes. So do you have a choice or are they really sort of slotting your barrels where they have room and in a way to just keep inventory rotated? Part of it is preference, especially now as we continue to grow and grow, we're getting more pick of where in the warehouse we want to be and specifically which warehouses we want to be in. But also just sometimes yet there's no room at the end. That's something that you have to accept is that there's lots of barrels in these warehouses. And sometimes if you want to be on floor five of warehouse G, there may not be room for your 200 barrels going in today or 300 barrels going in today. So you need to be able to balance your expectations a little bit and be able to work on the fly and know what might be an acceptable substitute. Now warehouse G I give them the example because that's my favorite warehouse. They're at the distillery with that first floor is where they store all of their gin botanicals. I really like storing rye barrels there because that second, third, fourth, fifth floor, these gin botanicals, this juniper, this angelica, it's all floating up into the other levels. And as the barrels are breathing in and out, they're breathing in this extra huge botanical note that goes really well with this 95% rye recipe. So with that, I have specific honey locations, you could say, that I like to put specific recipes and then pull from later. And we're working with that in the blend. But yeah, sometimes when we're working through, I may not have enough of age of that G and I know that I need to go, OK, well, if I go over to, say, the first floor of Warehouse E, that's going to have a similar humidity and temperature that I might be able to just blend that in as well at a different proportion. So I'm working through a huge database of notes whenever I visit the distillery or I get samples pulled from the distillery and just building profiles of different floors, even different sections of the floor that's getting different airflow, different humidity, different temperature. But yes, top to bottom, as was mentioned, it is less of a temperature swing than a traditional wooden warehouse, but there is difference Yeah, you still have a difference though. It's very interesting just to walk around to the 14 warehouses they have on site and just being able to smell a personality within a warehouse, especially going into one of the palletized warehouses and just being in there in January and it's colder in there than it is outside. And just being able to nose the air and realize that the whiskey coming out of there is going to be very similar to just what you're smelling in the open air itself. You don't really account for the time. You don't change your pull pattern based on the time of the year, more the time of barrel entry. Exactly right. So we have at least a constant there to base it off of. Should we try these old ones? Oh yeah. Good, I want to try the old one. Yeah, so moving into these Barrel Proofs. This is going to be a small batch. It is not single barrel. But with these, it is all going to be straight out of the barrel, into the bottle, at that proof, which means every batch we do is going to be a slightly different proof every time. We've had ranges in the past of between 108 and 116 in proof. I believe that's the highest that I've seen in a while. And you're going to look at an age currently without end market of the bourbon being a nine-year-old minimum. And this is batch two on bourbon. What's the proof on there, Brent? 54.1, so 108.2. So that one is going to be youngest drop being nine years old. It's actually a blend of a little bit older, but minimum nine. And then the high rye bourbon is going to be ten, and rye is going to be ten. Currently what's on the market with batch two. And these you really start to ramp up the character even more as you get that extra age. Still trying to keep in check the barrel and not having that barrel be overpowering the grain, but it is definitely going to be a stronger dance partner at this point, at this age. Yeah, more of a duet. Yeah, you've shifted into some of those cedar notes. Like the mint has gone from a spearman-y sort of character to more of a camphor. Right. And a lot of that, I think, has to do with wood will create some of that camphor. But I mean, it's definitely a duet that I think is a good word for this year, but it still has this like doughy plushness to it and the sweetness. This is a crowd pleaser if I've ever tasted one. This is just nice, sweet, thick bourbon. Yeah, it has a lot of those traditional bourbon notes that you're expecting now. More caramel stepping in, more vanilla stepping in. But yeah, maybe even a little bit of toffee as well. But definitely barrel notes are coming in, balancing out with that tannin. Cedar is another great descriptor for me, or Palo Santo wood is another one of my favorites as well. That's almost smokiness coming in with the sweetness. Nice apple showing up in this now too, little red apple skins. Yeah, so I think it would fall in the bottle a little bit. Oh yeah, nice wood spice. And the rye spice is still there too. There's still like a kiss of that mintiness, but it's more of that kind of rounder, darker mint I guess. Would you say that's kind of closest to camphor? You talked about that dark mint. That's a good descriptor. In the past I've mentioned muddled mint. It's not that bright, vibrant, like you just rubbed your hand through a patch of mint. It's been crushed, has a little bit of that chlorophyll in there, that darker. Yeah, you start. It's almost like if you overpress a grape when you're making wine, one way to get, you know, a little bit of a stringency and a little bit of phenolic character out of wine. Most of the time you don't want it every once in a while. If you have a little bit more broken skin contact, right, you can get that sort of character. Right. So going around now is the 10 year Barrel Proof High Rye Bourbon. So we're back to 36%, right? Exactly right. 114.4. Oh, 114.4 proof. That's pretty pretty hot for the 10 years in those warehouses. I say it's one of those that's actually pretty close to Barrel Proof. It hasn't dropped that much, especially for its age. So this is going to be pulled mostly from barrels higher up in that warehouse. They were able to hold on to more of those that proof, whereas I've seen four year old barrels from the sub basement of warehouse E that after only four years, they're down to 113, 114 proof. Oh, wow. And this guy has 10 and same proof. Exactly right. Now, but you have a little bit of that sweetness pulling away again and letting that rye spice shine through. But with that 10 years, once again, minimum age on it, you talk about crowd pleaser for me. If anyone tells me that, hey, I'm a bourbon lover, I've had a lot. What's something that you would recommend for me? This is almost an immediate grab. It's just getting that extra rye content in there that maybe they haven't seen before and bringing in that rounded herbal quality. Right. But there's definitely some, this one is showing some wood. Oh, yes. Not out of balance, but for those people that are fans of it, there's definitely that sort of. Yeah. People looking for older bourbon need to be paying a little more attention. Scarbox, not necessarily cedar, but scarbox those sorts of wood flavors. Like walking into a humidor a little bit. yes. A little bit of that, like almost a wet tobacco coming in, a little bit of cocoa. Reinceal. You don't want to say a little bit of that earthiness. In cognac or amniac, you describe it more as reinceal. Right. This one is also just a great finish. For me, this one on a large rock or a large ice ball, that first set being neat and this transitioning over the next 20 minutes as you get that dilution, it's just a transportation as you start to think about what this has been doing for the last 10 years. It's walking back in time as it starts to dilute and open up for me. Yeah, this is a stunner. Yeah, I like this a lot on the nose. Especially some of the aged bourbons like this, I start to get a little leather and dark cacao nibs, becomes a little bittersweet chocolate in there. Right. Really, really nice. This also fits my barometer, I believe, for pricing structure that I favor. Yeah. Joe is adamant that no whiskey that exceeds $10 per year of aging on the shelf is worth your time or money. Well, it could be. It can be. There are always exceptions. When I'm drinking the Balvinie 50, I make an exception. But it's because it tastes like it deserves it. But it's a rare instance in which I feel that way. Yeah. Bring it up, that age thing. That's an excellent rule of thumb because we're seeing more and more product available on the shelves. There's still a lot of variance and still a lot of deviation, but there is a quality level that is increasingly rising that isn't necessarily matched by an increase in price, which is fantastic for consumers. Exactly right. Yeah. Being able to sort of pass that on to the consumer and being able to share a fantastic higher age whiskey without, you know, having to take a crowbar to the wallet just makes me happy. I don't want to have, you know, all of our bottles sitting behind a glass shelf that nobody gets to actually touch. I am much happier to actually visit markets and be able to have people with bottles in hand that they know they can get on any given day. Sure. And with the market basket of what's available on our shelves, you can't afford. Oh yeah. At some point in time, you can't afford to be behind that lock case because there's plenty of stuff sitting right out on the shelf. We got a lot of good bourbon sitting on the shelf. Now, is this, what's the filtration on these guys here? This is non-chill? these are going to be non-chill filtered. You got to put that on the label, man. Yeah, that's something that especially as a group, we're getting out more sensitive to, and just having that extra bit of education for people that are just shelf walking, and being able to just jump out immediately and not having to have that extra I think Joe would agree. It's one of the first things people ask us. I mean, we do a lot of barrel picks. You know that. We did some with you over the summer, and it's one of the first things people ask, whether they're emailing spirits at binnys.com, or they're calling us on the Whiskey Hotline, and we're running on the sales floor, people looking for cool single barrels. Almost always, the first question is, what was this non-chill filter? That's right, because a lot of the education has already taken place, thanks to our brothers over in Scotland. Absolutely. So they love a non-chill filter. They've already done a lot of the teaching now. You just have to put it on the front label. If it's not on the tin, people don't always know. Yeah. All right, cool. Well, I mean, those are stunners, man. Thank you very much. I wish we had a bottle of the Barrel Proof Rye to bring in for you as well. Unfortunately, it's out of stock. I thought you were going to bring the 36-year-old in. That's what I had been promised next time, I guess. Yeah. Next time, we've got another 18 bottles of that. We'll see what we can do. 36-year-old rye? Was it a bourbon or a rye? 36-year-old bourbon and then we had an 18-year-old rye. I'm heavily, heavily, heavily biased against old bourbons. That's got to be gross. I'd say that one was before my time, so I was not able to actually sample any of it, so I couldn't even tell you at this point. I mean, if there's one warehouse that could make a bourbon that old and it's marginally palatable, it would be one of those MGP warehouses. It's true, and we've had the opportunity to try some older product. I believe Caddenheads had a number of years ago bought a number of barrels of Heaven Hill. Yeah, right. We had a chance to try them in their mid to late 20s at Caddenheads in Scotland, and it was 10 years or younger bourbon that was then shipped in full cask to Scotland and laid down in Dunnage warehouses in a relatively cool part of Scotland, and it's a whole different world versus just having everything fried out. We also did a cask of a 27-year-old bourbon with Willett a number of years ago. Stitzel Weller. Stitzel Weller was the juice, and it was fantastic. At the time, oldest bourbon ever bottled. Correct. It was before Heaven Hill did the Parker's Heritage 27. And it was very much designed for people that liked old whiskey. Luckily, there were only about 27 bottles, so the 27 people that enjoyed that got it. 24 bottles, I believe. 24. And I think a bottle just sold for 12,000 euros on the German whiskey auction. Wow. We must have been underpriced. 200 bucks a bottle. We really messed up. I have to work that into your $10 per year range. Yeah, maybe. Well, now originally, it was below the $10 a year range. Right. When I bought it before everybody knew. At $200 at the time. That was a bargain. That was a bargain. That would have fit my bargain purchase right there. Now, we don't want to ignore the other brands you're in charge of though, here today too. So your other big bourbon is Bib & Tucker. I think this one gets, I don't know, all the attention seems to be on redemption. The barrel program is focused on redemption now, right? I know there are some Bib & Tucker barrels out there. So this is a, you know, got that kind of medicinal old school looking bottle with the exposed cork up top. And this is a six-year-old bourbon, is that correct? yes, that's going to be a six-year-old minimum tennessee bourbon. And this one is going to be where redemption was focused on that grain. This is going to be, for me, focused on the barrel. This is coming out of Columbia, tennessee right now. And it is going to be a blend of between six and nine-year-old barrels. That average age right now is quite a bit over six currently. But it's not a super high rye content. It's not... Is the rye about eight percent? Right now, it's a blend of several different recipes. You have a blend of eight as well as closer towards 29. Wow. But with this, we're focused on the barrels, specifically with the barrels that we're using that are number one char. Instead of your char three and char four barrels. What those char one barrels does, it's more of a toasted barrel and less of a charred barrel. That's my next question. So it's more heavily toasted than you're going to see with your standard three or four char. Exactly. Do you know what cupers those barrels are coming out of? Some of those are going to be independent stave. Some of those are going to be Kelvin. Okay. A lot of it being independent stave really. With that number one char, you're getting less of that traditional caramel vanilla sweetness, and more of a nuttiness, toasty, drier, tannic quality to it, that I really get a kick out of being able to just blend that in, and seeing how that changes the profile. It's, so far as I know, unique in the market with the amount of number one char that we use. Yeah. I don't know if anybody else uses a number one char. It's number one because the number one char is interesting because it's less filtration. I think a lot of people, we have this discussion a lot, a lot of people think that people say, well, it tastes like char. And in reality, char doesn't taste like anything. If you could taste char, then everybody would detest vodka because vodka is charcoal filtered. You know, it actually acts as a filtration device rather than something that imparts flavor. So it's interesting that the lack of that filter, the lack of the char allows a little bit more of those astringent sort of high pH drier elements to come through that normally would be filtered out in a heavier char. Yeah, I start to think of like chestnuts or pecan pie as one of the big notes that I get immediately off of the nose itself. You've got that nuttiness, toastiness, a little bit of that caramel sweetness coming through as well. I may also be hungry. This is, I think, kind of an undersold whiskey on ourselves. The people in the know know this whiskey and pick it up. And I think part of it though, like that story of that barrel like isn't really out there. Again, isn't really out there on the label. But this is cool and it kind of takes a bit of a different direction that most other bourbon producers aren't going on. You're not seeing this everywhere. Yeah, nice bourbon. The package is outstanding to begin with. They're just looking at it on the shelf. But I mean, this actually tastes really, really solid too. The nuttiness definitely comes through. And sometimes when people hear tennessee Whiskey, they have all kinds of different thoughts that come up. But this does not have any Flintstone vitamin flakes. Yeah, no Flintstone vitamin, no bubble gumminess. Like this is good bourbon. The nature of tennessee bourbon that's out there has changed significantly. Now that more of it's released. I mean, for a long time, the association was always with tennessee Whiskey, you know, to the maple charcoal filtered before it goes into the barrel. And now turns out their facilities down there for a number of years have been making low rye, low rye bourbons and low rye ryes in large, large amounts. And depending on where they get shipped and where they get aged, I think it makes a huge difference in terms of, you know, what's going to come out. Yeah, that tennessee Whiskey, tennessee bourbon category is no longer the one trick pony that it really used to be. You have so much diversity coming into the space. And that's what really makes it exciting for me, especially being a Kentucky boy. I get to play around down south of the border and make some really good whiskey, matter whether it's from Kentucky or tennessee or Indiana for that matter. Now, right in that area, sweet spot of whiskey. All right, and we've got a North of the Border Whiskey here for you to taste with you today too, is that right? I'll go on the other direction. Yeah, this is going to be Masterson's. It is a 100% rye, and that is going to be all made with that Pacific northwest American grown rye. So more of that biscuity, doughy, almost malt-like characteristic to it. And that's going to be a minimum 10 years on it. Masterson's, for me, that is going to be my Sunday sipper before going back to work on Monday. It's still got a lot of character to it, but at the same time, this is one of our more nuanced whiskeys. I really enjoy blending this one because it is a bit more, I'll say, a challenge to blend. Okay. Because of the nuance and the lightness in the character and being 100% rye, there is nothing to hide behind. It doesn't have a huge barrel character. Like you think with other 10-year-old, like bourbons, with a nice heavy 10-year-old high char barrel, you've got a lot of oak to hide behind. With this, I almost call it like a naked whiskey. Any of its faults, you're going to see them right away. So if I have a barrel that maybe isn't quite up to snuff, I can't try and blend it away. Okay. Now, important note. So this is Canadian whiskey and this is coming out of the Alberta distillery? A lot of it is coming out of Alberta. Okay. A lot of it is coming out of Alberta. Now, when they're making whiskey in Canada, oftentimes they're making base whiskey and flavoring whiskey, right? They're making base whiskey is usually distilled to a very high proof on a big column still. Flavoring whiskey also often column distilled, but lower proof, true to its name, they're making a whiskey that's going to carry most of the flavor in the end Canadian blend. This isn't a typical Canadian blend. This is not Crown Royal or something. Exactly. Can you shed some light on the distillation that went into this bottle and anything special about that? Yeah, this is going to be column and pot distilled. More of like your traditional Indiana, Kentucky, tennessee style. Okay. Column and doubler. It is not going to be distilled to that much higher proof point that you see with your more lighter Canadian blending whiskeys. This is still going to have that character to it. It is going to have a bit more of that extra just roundness brought to it by that second distillation in the doubler. Much more refined distillation point while still maintaining plenty of character and not just being a neutral whisky. So not when you say lower alcohol. So it would qualify as a rye in the United states in that it's not... More 160 or less type of proof. Exactly. It is going to be below that 160 mark. And obviously they can use a lot of different barrels up there. Is this a blend of new and refilled barrels or freshies and dumpers as they might call them? This is a straight bourbon whisky. Okay. Yep. So you're looking at new barrels for this coming out. Straight rye for something like this. yes. Yeah. Yeah. Now, one reason I like to curl about that a little bit is the color of this whisky. It's minimum 10 years old, but it is still quite pale in the glass. Where does it spend its life? The barrels, where do they spend most of their life? Most of it will be in Canada. Yeah. So colder, more humid. So you're going to get less color going into there. And one reason I like the fact that this is on the paler side is that you know we didn't add any caramel to it. Whereas some of these coming out of Canada, you see it's almost a bourbon color. There may be caramel coloring in there. Yeah. Or other age spirit added into it. You know, they have their famous 9.09% rule. But this is just, this is a straight whisky. I mean, this is first used barrel, straight whisky, no coloring, no additive, no nothing in this. Right. Cool. The nice thing about that aging there in the colder weather, too, though, is that this comes off way more elegant. Yeah. So it hasn't pulled out that color, but it also hasn't pulled out some of the stronger, deeper, more aggressive characteristics I would associate with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That elegant was perfect. I actually had the same adjective. This is a Canadian whisky for Scotch or bourbon. Well, it's a bridge. It's almost a bridge stylistically back to what you would expect out of malt distillate in Scotland. You know, partially a cooler climate that they're aging in and partially the fact that they're reusing the cooperage in that. You have a wood is there to hold and give structure, but wood doesn't become the dominant characteristic. So you do get more dry, elegant notes. Right. I love using this. It's interesting too, because I think when this initially released within the first year or so, there were four different variants of barrel aging. There was a Hungarian oak, American oak, French oak, and one of them, I think, ended in the top whiskeys of the year that year. Yeah, one best Canadian whiskey. Yeah. So is there any talk of bringing that back? We are definitely looking at the sort of like the international oaks of the world. That has been a great sort of experiment for us. The only issue with that is we're dealing with 10-year-old product. And so we have to be real careful with that. We've waited patiently for at least 10 years for it. So the experiments have to be very measured and controlled so we don't throw 10 years down the drain, so to speak. As I mentioned, if you get a bad barrel, I can't risk blending it away because it's just that elegant, more nuanced style of whiskey. Yeah, there's nothing to hide by in here. No, the faults will jump right out at you. So that's why it's a great challenge for me personally. What do you think of this, Shannon? It reminds me of a, I don't know what kind of cookies they are, but they're like covered in white powder, almost almond-y. Those Italian Christmas cookies, right? Yeah. They have that waffly look to them. Right. Are those what you're thinking of? I think so. Yeah, I saw them at Aldi the other day. I can't. My grandmother's- Like the cherries and- They were just Christmas cookies. My grandmother made those. Yeah. They'd always had pecans. There's like that little bit of nuttiness that comes. It sounds like everybody's hungry today. Right? Now, the food's coming through. Yeah, and you mentioned malt whiskey. Yeah. This is a great one for me for trying to convert malt whiskey drinkers over to American or North American style whiskey. Especially with this one, it's closer in proof, that 90 proof, where's a lot of your scotches, you think 80, 90 proof range. Colder age and climate, more of nuance, not heavy on the rye, even though it is 100 percent rye. I also like to use it for that reason with somebody who tells me they don't like rye whiskey, or they don't like high rye bourbons. I'll give this to them blind, not tell them that there's any rye in it. I'll be like, oh yeah, I really like that. You can't tell me that you don't like rye whiskey anymore because that's 100 percent rye, there's nothing else in it. Yeah, this is, I love the respectable 90 proof too. I mean, that's something, so many Canadian whiskeys on the shelf are, you know, bare minimum 80 proof these days. And it's nice having a Canadian whiskey with a little heft to it. I mean, this will stand up again. And this is elegant and refined and perfect on its own. But if you were to mix it in a cocktail, wouldn't be that watered down. Nice work. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Man of international whiskey blending. I get around. So is there any like exciting things coming up that we should have our customers on the lookout for other than our single barrels that are rolling? Single barrels, of course. We had a bit of a label glue issue. We were hoping they'd be here by now. I had extra glue on hand. I was ready to work. Yeah, we were ready to send Joey down with a glue stick. You know, I say that we've hit some snags along the way between the government approving labels and just getting everything lined out. It's a bit of a bear. It's a smart man blaming it on the government. Oh, yeah, I'll lean that way. Lean into it a bit. But yes, very happy to be getting those to you all. Those are very unique special barrels. I can't wait to get them in customers' hands. Yeah, those were great. So, I mean, what else though? I mean, you got any innovation as the suits might say, coming through the line here with their line extensions, anything like that. What's next for Redemption as a brand? Special releases. Yeah, actually, we've got a little bit of that going on. Very much looking forward to our next release of Redemption Weeded. That is in the works and that one won best small batch bourbon five years and under at San Francisco this year. So this next batch has got to measure up to, right? But as far as innovation is concerned, we have one that is, well, getting ready to dump barrels here soon, and that is a rum finished rye. Oh, cool. And that one, we took what used to be Pierre-Franc Cognac barrels. Those then went to Jamaica and Barbados for aging plantation XO rum. And then now that has our 95% rye aging in it, finishing in it, so to speak. And that's going to be a mix of some of these barrels. They've been finishing for four months, all the way up to some of these barrels have been finishing for a little over a year now. Oh, nice. And everything in between. Getting to pick out those different spots and see what the different amounts of time have worked on those barrels. But that has been very exciting for me and I'm very happy to be getting that bottled here in the next few weeks. That's going to be in limited markets though. Illinois hopefully. Yep, yep, we got the thumbs up. All right. All right, sounds like it's coming. All right, cool. Well, thanks for the sneak peek. Absolutely. No, that one's a that'll be coming out here soon. Very happy. And that is going to be a partnership with Plantation Rum. It'll have both Redemption and Plantation on the label. Oh, that's great. We do obviously a ton of business with Plantation Rum. We've done three plantation barrels just hit. Yep. Our fall barrels. Yeah, we do a couple of barrel finishes, you know, buying a whole barrel lots from them every year too. So pretty cool. Yeah, we've got a few more projects in the works, including one that I'm not allowed to talk about yet, unfortunately. But I can say that it is something that's never been done in the whisky industry, as I'm very excited for when that one does come out. Now I could talk a bit more about it. We'll see. If we guess it, will you wink? Then that way you don't have to actually. Oh, absolutely. I mean, no, but I'm nodding off camera a little bit. It's going to be a 35-year-old straight bourbon. No, none of that. I can't tell you what he did. He said no, but there was a lot of blinking and winking going on. Well, we appreciate your time coming in here today. I know our listeners here are going to appreciate, always appreciate a look behind the curtain on some of these brands like this, and especially when we're talking about that iconic rye whiskey that has turned so many people onto rye whiskey over the last decade or so. So I really appreciate it. My pleasure. Thank you all for having me out, and I can't wait to get some barrels in hand for you all. Very excited. We'll have to have you back for that. Oh, yes. Well, thanks for tuning in. Until next week, I've been Pat. I've been Brett all day. I've been Shannon as long as I can remember. I'm still Joe. I'll claim to be Dave for now. Keep tasting.