Happy New Year. Can I say that? You can say that, you just did. I never know. Welcome to another edition of Barrel to Bottle with Binny's Beverage Depot. And you are Jeff Carlin. I am Jeff Carlin, you're Kristen Ellis, right? I am, yeah, last I checked. Today, we're talking about something that is really interesting to me, is warming up in the cold weather, and drinks that help you do that. Hey, that's my first instinct when it's cold like this, is to grab some beer or whiskey that's a little higher proof. Yeah, step aside tea and soup. Yeah, take that and put on my beer jacket. So we've got Roger, our big guns again, with us. He's our beer guy. If you guys have been listening to our podcast for a while, you've heard Roger. He is really my go-to when I need anything within the beer world. So Roger, what's up? Thanks for having me back here. I'm very excited. Yeah. Happy New Year. Same to you. Feeling good? I'm trying to stave off the winter chill and stay healthy here. Got some nice warming beers here to help me out. Okay, great. We're going old school in cold weather this week, right? Absolutely. So this time of year, a lot of people reach for stouts and porters, wanted to give you some other options. Yeah. There's always tried and true go-tos, but this is a lot of old world, some of my favorite old school beers that are known for being higher in alcohol. Because of that, they have some serious lasting power. We're going to try the difference between beers that are several years apart, do a little bit of a vintage tasting today. Cool. Warming beers, we're going to start with barley wine, right? Barley wine, indeed. We've got two from two different vintages or two different years, which I think is awesome. I have a beer from a brewery that's been around for well over a hundred years, and they've been making their famous vintage ale for decades now. This is JW. Lee's Vintage Harvest Ale. It is a English barley wine, arguably one of the most canonical examples of one, heavily imitated over in England, and for those American brewers brave enough, this would be one of the styles that they would look to for guidance and inspiration. As a consumer, you see barley wine in places. I mean, is there a definition to make something a barley wine, or do people just slap it on there because it's higher proof and it's got some extra sugar? We rewind a little bit. English beers, if you're familiar, have ever heard stories of people visiting there. A lot of people go to the English pubs and they have a pint of bitters, or they have a pint of mild, and those beers are great because they're really low alcohol. They're arguably the origin of the term session beer. You want something that's nice and sessionable and coiffable, you can really throw them back. Typically, those beers, especially when they're pulled on draft, are very low alcohol. They can be as low as 2%, not uncommon for most of them to be somewhere in between 3 and 4. So when the English brewers decided to brew something for, typically the winter months, the holidays, special occasions, something that would have that lasting power and that would warm you up, they really were such big, intense beers. They had both the flavor complexity and the alcohol strength of wine. So the idea being wine-esque, wine-like in a lot of ways, but it's still made from all the building blocks of beer. If sessionable is low alcohol, is there an antonym to that then? It seems kind of like a catch-all, clothable or drinkable. These are kind of like sippers or things that you typically serve maybe in a brandy glass, small, small portions. This JW. Lee's comes in a little tiny nine ounce bottle. So as far as the term goes, maybe high-gravity referring to, you know, the starting, the amount of malt that you need to create these kind of beers is kind of mind-blowing. It might literally be double the kind of malt that you would normally use. So yeah, let's give the first one a taste here. So from JW. Lee's, again, this is we're going to try both a classic English style barley wine and then an American version of that. The American take on the style is also very interesting, but also pretty different. So I want you to try all of them side by side. So let's start with one that's been aged for quite some time. This is a vintage ale from 2007. Definitely go back and forth between the 07 and the 15. But if you just start by smelling them, there's some pretty incredible aromas in here. As a beer ages, it's going to slowly oxidize. It's going to remind you of the oxidative process in some of your fortified wines. It smells like Oloroso Sherry. That's definitely what they're going for here. It's going to have a lot of those really similar flavors to some of the best sherrys out there. There's some great almond, nutty notes, really amazing fruitiness from this that's all just coming from the combination of maltops and yeast, no adjuncts in this or anything. There's really a lot going on here. I love the ter-sherry aromas, the aromas from the bottle age. It's awesome. If you just look at the color of the two, there's definitely a little bit of a darker hue to the older ones, so that's another thing that's going to slowly happen over time. And this is a vintage now. In the wine world, there's a lot that goes into picking out and saying, hey, this is going to be a vintage year. What goes into that in beer? Is there a great weather made into great beer? Yeah, it's farming, right? So the good weather is how good the hops do or the grains that go into it or anything like that, right? Absolutely. So they actually make a concerted effort for this unique beer to pick grain or hops grown just from that year. So they're definitely highlighting. And they will try to pay attention for that. They'll select hops that they thought were especially fragrant. They'll accept, you know, if there was an exceptional year for the grain, the kernels were plumper. I mean, the weather obviously totally can affect each year's harvest. So if I see vintage on the bottle, that's like the best of the best. Sometimes. Unless it was a bad year and they made it anyway, right? Right. Well, in America, a lot of the times things are vintage dated and really all it's telling you is what year it was made. But there are certain breweries. Special barrel stouts and all that are like, this year we did. Okay. So this is more of a traditional vintage. So the variation is not as much of a big deal here with vintage beer as we would find with vintage wine. Right. There are a couple of breweries that are all about that because it really can affect the growing seasons. You'll see a couple of breweries actually starting to grow their own grains, grow their own hops. So you'll see some kind of unique estate ales. Sierra Nevada does that. But moved on to the 15 before you told me to. It's definitely, you can see where the 7 kind of started off this way, right? You kind of get that same fruit spectrum, but it's way more citrusy. It's a lot square versus the rounder 2007. I agree. Very good observations. I think there's definitely a little more sweetness to this one too. Yeah. Yep. So the malt sugars in this, that's going to start to change over time. So this definitely is showing its youth. It's a little not quite as, you know, not as many complexities, like you said, not as round, but it's still very nice and bright and inviting. And this is also, at this point, almost two years, it's around at least two years old, so. Yeah. I think it's still very nuanced. It's just very different in how it presents itself, for sure. And is it common for a beer to lose its carbonation over time? So something that's super old is going to be almost still? Exactly. Yeah. The downside to the bottle cap, unfortunately. So that's why you'll see a lot of Belgian beers that are in those cork and cage. That does a lot better job of kind of, you know, having a better seal. So if I'm going to bury a bottle of a beer in my backyard, it should probably be a cage and cork. Well, arguably, if you really, the other thing with that, if you're really sealing it up well and putting it in a tomb, it might hold a little more of the CO2 in that case. But yeah, you would be better served if it was a cork and cage, for sure. Can you touch on the sedimentation on the O7? Yeah, that was interesting too. I noticed that. You know, in wine, it's easily explained by a polymerization. Is that what's going on here and what is the molecular kind of breakdown of why that's happening? So slowly over time, we've tried beers here before, especially the Belgian beers that are living beers where they have a little bit of yeast in the bottom of the beer. So ideally, if when you were to serve this type of beer, you're going to want to put it in your refrigerator and keep it in there for about a week or so to try to get that any sediment that's going to be in the beer to stay on the bottom. When you're pouring it, you want to leave just a little bit of the leaves, anything that's left over the yeast. So these English ales, typically, it's not uncommon for them, especially for these special beers, to leave a little bit of yeast in there to keep things going. But it's not uncommon if you have a very, very old beer, it can start to break down a little bit. And that's the kind of sedimentation you don't want to see. When you're pouring, you want to see if it's cloudy or clear. And being an 07 and still being relatively clear like this, this is a beer that's held up remarkably well for given its age. I agree. And it's evolving even in the short time that we've poured it. It's becoming more barnyardy and I mean, it's interesting how it's changing in this little glass we have. These type of beers, you definitely do want to serve more at room temp or cool, too cold and you'll just lose so many of those nuanced flavors. Covering the JWE, which I'm going to call J-Dubs from now on, we're going to move on to the Ailsmith. Yeah? Yes. The old numbskull. Now, I would say that's more beer-like. Does that make sense? I know that might not. It might sound quite sophomoric or very novel, but when I expect to taste a beer, it's more beer-like. Dances on the tongue with the effervescence. It's not like coating my tongue in this aged sugar. Definitely more bitter. The hops are definitely making themselves known in this beer. So when Americans saw this style, a lot of them looked at it and said, yeah, that's a little too malt-centric for us. It's too rich, too sweet. Bitterness of hops is going to balance out the sweetness of malt. So if barley wines are a big beer, Americans decided to make them even bigger. So we're going to throw a ton of hops at it and just see how that interplay works out. What's our problem with that? Why is it always hops? We're coming away from that, though. We're going to get to this with our Q&A a little bit later. I've got a thing on trends coming up. So hold that thought, Jeff. We're going to tackle that. That's a good question. This style, the beer we're drinking is Ailsmith Old Numbskull from a brewery down in San Diego and another famous California brewery, Sierra Nevada, does a barley wine as well, a Bigfoot Ale. And they're both have that aggressive bitterness when they're fresh. Given a little bit of time, you're going to see that start to fall out. What's kind of neat, arguably, from the To Play Devils advocate is that it's not uncommon for people to save these beers for several, several years. If that hoppiness is a little too much for you now, over time, it's going to start to blend in, almost become citrus-like in a candied way. So it definitely still has a lot of that kind of dark brown sugar, muscovado. I think people who enjoy old fashions would really dig this beer because it's got some of those similar flavors. Do you hear that, Wisconsin? I mean, it's got the sugar, it's got the cherry, it's got the caramel-y whiskey component. It's warming. It's kind of like a pre-made old fashion. I'm feeling warmer. Can I just interrupt and say that this is working? You've got some color. Thank you. It's green and gold. Kidding, no. A lot of these are up there. We're hitting double digits on the alcohol for all these barley wines. So. Yeah, good. Awesome. Alcohol equals warmth, friends. Remember that. But don't take that to heart if you're out in the very cold because it'll eventually kill you. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. What else you got for us? So the next one I want you to try is actually a Doppelbach, which is a famous German style. Can I try to say this one? Go for it. Oh, wait, hold on. Why Hen Stefanner? Very good. Really? Why Hen Stefanner? Oh, you were much better than me. I still like the way I did it better, though. Yours is more elegant. Mine's more like hammer. Yours was very sure. Mine was, yeah, shaky at best. Anyway, good. Well, now that we've got the pronunciation, now that we've merged some other language, what do you got for us? Tell us about this beer. Not an easy brewery to say. Sometimes with a lot of these higher alcohol beers and the richer ones, they're just a little too much for people. They're not quite as easy to drink, so they get a little bored with them or they can only have really small amounts. The unique thing about Doppelbach, it's a lager, whereas most of the other beers are trying or all the other beers are trying tonight are all ales. And a lot of your heavier, richer beers are all ales. Doppelbach's being lagers then possess a little bit of that lagering and finesse and more drinkability. Whereas the other ones here are served in these little bottles, this is served in a half liter, so you'll have no problem throwing back a whole half liter and then grabbing another one. Nothing wrong with that. Yeah. I like it though. It's nice. Yeah, that's really good. That's super smooth and it's super balanced. I love it. It's got great chocolatey notes without being a stout, which is fun too. All right. So one last thing with this Doppelbach. This is a Swiss Army knife for food and beer pairings and cooking with beer. This is a great beer to serve with dinner, especially in the winter when you're making heartier meals, things like pot roasts, stews. It's great to go in both of those. You can braise meats with this. Roasted anything from here. Did you bring an extra one with you? Because I'm actually eating beef stew after this. Oh, there you go. I didn't. Big night. Oh, missed opportunity for me. It is going to be a big night. So, we've saved arguably the best for last. A very, very famous style of beer. For many years, one of the most sought after styles out there, when people would chase lists of the rarest beer in the world and the most highest rated beer in the world. It was often a Belgian style quadruple, which to this day is still pretty difficult to get your hands on. Luckily, I brought a beer that I think is every bit as good, and you can walk into Binny's and Purchase. It is also from a Trappist Brewery. These are monastery brews, so they literally have to be made within the confines of a monastery. There are monks supervising the production of these beers. Age old, time honored tradition of very slow and painfully crafted beers that really develop some special complexity and are... Super floral. Amazingly complex beers. This is really good. It's interesting, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, my taste and smell, like I said, is a bit off tonight, but definitely the floral, for me, that floral comes through big time. Yeah. I hear that. Yep. And there's definitely this amazing fruitiness. Yeah. It's like gooseberries. Yeah. I don't like the... Like that finishing flavor is very gooseberry. Like, oh, it's good. I like that. It's almost grapey. Yeah. I hear that for sure. Like purple drink. No, it's true. It has a very nice fruity character. I get... I pick up like plum from it is kind of the most common thing for me, but... Yeah. Well, that's kind of what happens when you taste and talk. I know so many people in tasting groups I'm in or whatever, they get so upset, you know, don't say anything. And I get it, especially when you're tasting professionally. But when you're just doing it kind of socially around a group, I'm very much... I love to hear what you're tasting, because sometimes you just can't put a word to it, you know? And as soon as somebody says plum, you're like, heck yeah, plum. That's what I was trying to say this whole time. So anyway, I enjoy this, so thank you. Very good. So to kind of recap here, I mean, the whole premise of this beer episode was high volume, high alcohol beers to kind of get you that beer coat going. Well, the other thing that's cool with all these beers, I hope you noticed, is that despite their strength, they're so well made that you don't really taste the alcohol. Yeah, they're not burning hot. Yeah. And that's why I went old school with this and picked a lot of examples from the countries where they originated. So some time honored makers of it, or in the case of Ailsmith, I mean, they've won multiple medals for their interpretation of a barley wine. So I wanted you to taste it in its best because there's definitely people that fall a little bit short. Sure. So sometimes when people try these styles, if they have barley wine, for example, barley wine is arguably a bit of a dying style because a lot of people don't do it well. Yeah, that's for sure. I mean, I know not to name names, but there have been tons of different micro brewers who go in and they're like, oh, I'm going to try to get a barley wine on tap and it's instant headache in a glass. You're like, oh, why did I do that? Way too sweet, too often. All these three of these styles, more often than not, people fail to ferment them enough, they end up too sweet. I've had Doppel Box that are just so sugary, you can barely drink one or same with quads. So it really has something to be said for every brewery has their unique spin on it. And some of these, again, as much as I love drinking local, it's fun to go back to the roots of some of these people that have been doing these for hundreds of years. And it's fun also to compare them, because some of the younger ones have their merits for sure. But again, it's one of those things where I can always trust it. The old adage, go big, go home, you know? Kind of the theme of, the underlying theme of tonight's podcast. Go big, go home, as in back to the old world. Yeah, right, for sure. This is very well thought, the list you put together for us, even though it's five expressions, I think it gives us a good kind of overview of these styles. And I like to do the old school, old G kind of, these are the progenitors of everything that's happening now, especially with the Ailsmith versus the J-dubs. Killer example of kind of what was and kind of what we're doing here. So yeah, I love it. Awesome, man. Thank you. Isn't he sweet? He is. He's sweeter than the beer. He actually is so sweet. He is going to give a lucky listener a $20 gift card. Aren't you, Roger? Indeed. What do we have this week? So if you want to win $20 bucks to spend at a Binny's Beverage Depot, you write us at Binny's Bev on Twitter. And if we use it, you get $20 coming your way. Yep, that's it. So here is the question, kind of what I alluded to earlier in the cast. We've got Wolf Bats, which is a very interesting name. I love you, Wolf Bats. I don't think it's too soon in our relationship to say. Wolf Bats asks, what is the next trend in craft beer in 2018? Ooh, no pressure. That's a good question. Ladies and gentlemen, he just got out a crystal ball. No lie. Crystal beer, beer bottle. There's so many predictions that get made and that don't come to fruition, so I'm trying to really give it some thought here. It's so hard to say what you think will work, but having talked about those three main styles right now that everybody is getting into, big stouts, especially barrel-aged stouts, these super tropical fruity IPAs, and then sours, those are all really bold, intense, flavored beers. One beer style that I saw have some renewed interest in that I think will continue is Kuhlsch, the beer of Cologne. There are some fantastic Kuhlsch out there. That's K-O-U-M-L-O-T-L-S-H. You are so cultured. That's me. Yes, it's not Kuhlsch, it's Kuhlsch. Kuhlsch. Solemn Oath, in fact, right here in Chicagoland in the Naperville suburb, makes a phenomenal Kuhlsch. Schlafly down in St. Louis has always made a phenomenal example as well. I think some breweries are going to start to play around with this because it has the benefits of tasting similar to lager beer. It starts his life as an ale though. So it's kind of one of those best of both worlds type thing. I think what you might also see is it's base enough of a beer with delicate enough flavors that if people still want to play around, they could do that too. I could see people doing like a passion fruit colch or goofy dragon fruit, something that will grab people's attention. It can incorporate some of that fruitiness and drinkability from the New England style IPAs. It's not overly hard to brew, they're refreshing. I could see that. I don't know how many more big, heavy, intense adjunct laden beers we can drink. Maybe it's limitless, but if you really want my prediction, that's all going to continue. We're just going to see a lot more of crazy ingredients, ready-made food, you're probably going to see candy bars and beers, cookies. That's the route we're going. I love hate that, just hearing it. Wolfbats, congrats, 20 bucks to you. That was a good answer, Roger. Awesome. I feel good about it. Ladies and gentlemen, thanks for tuning in. Roger, Jeff, always a pleasure, my friends. Keep tasting and we'll see you next Monday.