Here we are again, another episode of Barrel to Bottle with Binny's Beverage Depot. I am Kristen Ellis. My host, Jeff, is here with me. Hey Jeff, how's it going? Thanks for having me. I know we've got something very special today. We say that every time, but I think that... Do we? Yeah, but that's okay, but I think today it's extra special, in the sense that it's kind of a category that's a bit arcane and is really, you know, it's old as far as history is concerned, and culture, where it's from, but to us here, especially in Yeah, definitely. We brought in some big guns for it today. The biggest of guns. The biggest of guns ever, yes. Monique Huston, Spirit Specialist, tell us about yourself. What do you do? What's your favorite color? I study spirits. My favorite color is green. You know, we're talking Barrel to Bottle, but we're not going to talk Barrel at all with these today. We're just going to talk about Miscot. It smells so good in here, doesn't it? It does. Yeah, it's a very aromatic spirit. It smells like spring break. Really distinct, interesting. No, just me. I think that's a different podcast. We're talking about women and spirits. Well, Monique and I are, we're friends. We're talking about women and spirits. We're friends. We're talking about women and spirits and kind of stereotypes and how some people think that women just don't like whiskey, for example. So we're talking about kind of releasing ourselves from that stereotype. And like women really do like whiskey. Women like mezcal. Women love spirits. I mean, it goes back. Typically, women can taste and smell about 20% more things than men can. And they think that it dates back to prehistoric days when men were hunter gatherers, kind of like, oh, it moves. I shoot it with an arrow versus women who were gathering. And we had to be able to smell and taste the difference between poison and sustenance. And so we have very strong sense of smell and taste. And so I think that women just maybe sometimes a little bit better just kind of know what they like and don't like. And spirits tend to have stronger flavors because they are distilled wine or beer. They have stronger flavors. In a lot of cases, especially like the mezcal that we're about to try, they sit at higher proof. So I think women just have a greater sensitivity to it. That might mean that they like it or don't like it. But yeah, we can definitely dispel that myth. We see so many women, I mean, in tastings that I do anymore in educational events that I do anymore. They're easily 50-50 men and women at this point in time. It's changed a lot in the 20 years that I've been in the business. And you and I are in a club together. You're way more active than I am, but it's called Bourbon Women. It's called Bourbon Women. It's amazing. When it kind of first came about, or when I was first introduced to Bourbon Women, when we would put on these events at Binny's, they weren't very packed, right? Maybe 50 or 70 people. And we thought those were great successes. But now we put on Bourbon Women events, we have 200, 300 people and a lot of men are coming and showing great support. And so I think just women in spirits in general is kind of becoming less of a special thing and more just part of the game now. Certainly, and probably a little less stigmatized. I think just kind of presenting it in a way that it is a Bourbon Women event or a women in spirits event that women feel a bit more comfortable knowing that they're going to be in the majority. Those events have been incredibly successful. I will say to our women driven events are the most diverse events I've ever had the pleasure of taking part in. It's incredible. It's really it's an amazing time to be in spirits. I love to see the growth. I like to be a part of it as well. So let's talk about Mezcal. We're talking about Mezcal. It's big in Chicago right now. It's huge in Chicago right now. I live in Logan Square and there are no less than four Mezcal areas in just Logan Square right now. You can walk a rhombus. I like to call it the Mezcal rhombus. You can walk about a mile and a half or stumble the last part of it. There's just Mezcal everywhere and you think how could this many bar programs support this many Mezcal and this many Mezcal cocktails? But they do and people are still really excited about it. I'd say the primary thing that comes up is what is the difference between Mezcal and tequila. A lot of misnomers there. Essentially tequila is Mezcal, but not all Mezcal is tequila. So just like the United States has 50 states in the District of Columbia, Mexico has over 30 states and Distrito Federal, like the capital there. And different states can produce different spirits based on agave and what type of agave grows there. So tequila can come from a few different states, but is restricted to being produced from one type of agave, the Weber Blue agave. What that means is that if you're all using, you know, you're restricted to a particular physical area and then you're using one plant, that a lot of times tequila distillers will discern themselves from other tequilas by how they are maturing. So they'll say, oh, I've got a Blanco tequila or a Reposado tequila that's been rested in wood for two or more months, or an Añejo tequila that's been rested in wood for one year or more. Or sometimes they'll use different kinds of wood. They might use old bourbon barrels, old rye barrels, maybe old port barrels or sautern barrels, all kinds of unique things. But you're starting with the same plant distilled in essentially the same fashion, but then age different ways. With mezcal, it's very different. Mezcal comes from a much broader variety of states in Mexico and can come from about 85 varieties of agave. I've had people tell me before that agave is like a cactus, like this comes from cactuses. It doesn't. Agave is a succulent. It's in the lily family. I think the easiest thing for me to liken it to is an aloe plant. So if you can picture an aloe plant in Nebraska. On steroids, basically, is what it looks like. Aloe plant on steroids, yeah. And so the pina, the heart of the plant, once you take the leaves off of it, they can take five years to mature up to 50 years to mature. But these plants only mature once ever, and we cannot control it. So you can plant or nature can plant an entire field of plants, and one will ripen one year and maybe 500 ripe in the next year. We have no idea. The plants signal when they're ripe by shooting up a stalk called a kiote. And then you know that it's ripe and you can harvest the plant and you cut off the leaves. You get the kiote in the center. That's where all the sugar concentrates. You bake it down, process it a few different ways, naturally ferment it. So whatever yeast is in the air will go in and through the fermentation process and then distill it in many different types. So I brought a couple of different examples of mezcal. We should start with the first one now, because you guys are being very patient. Thank you. I have a question quick though about the agave. Absolutely. What does it look like when you drive the countryside in Mexico? I don't know if these farms for mezcal are sometimes a bit industrial or the size, whatever the acreage is, but because they take so long to mature, is it just agave as far as the eye can see? Yeah, not even remotely. And the first mezcal that we're going to try is from Oaxaca State. Oaxaca State is home to some of the most biodiversity in the world in this state. So you will actually see agave growing wild next to corn, next to palm trees, next to coniferous trees, next to oak trees. It's unbelievable the amount of plants in a place that I think most of us think of as being a desert or a particularly dry or hot climate, having all of these different plants growing next to each other. And all of those interact and you really do get a sense of terroir, especially when like the first agave that we'll try is called a tepestate. And these plants can take 15 years to mature. So they're taking in all of these other things that are growing near them, and they definitely get a lot of flavors from them. Most of the time, these agaves just grow wild. They ripen once, they actually flower overnight once they ripen, and they're pollinated by bats. So those flowers can't open during the day or it will actually kill off the flower. It's amazing. So bats are very, very important to the ecology of everything that's going on in terms of agave. So they're much more wild. You don't really see them growing as much as you think of tequila, that they're growing in rows and they're being irrigated. This is a much more wild process. They might be growing in the middle of a pine forest, in the middle of a cornfield or whatever it is. So you get quite a bit of that. These also will typically be bottled at the strength to which they're distilled. So these are all going to sit around 50% alcohol. If they're brought down a bit in alcohol, it's with rainwater. So everything's done very, very naturally. So quite a bit different. Most of the time tequila is going to be bottled around 80 proof or 40% alcohol and be a little bit just easier to drink. These are intended to be big and bold and strong and give you really the flavor of the agave, that plant. We like to say in the industry that something like bourbon, which I absolutely love, which has to be 51% or more corn, that plant, you give it a haircut every year. You go through and you harvest it, but it's going to grow again the next year. You don't really have to do that much. These agave plants, they give their lives. And this could be anything on the low end from a five to seven year maturation to a 35 to 50 year maturation. For one plant to grow, the last one that we're going to taste is a really, really intense guy. First one we're going to try is a Tepestate. This is from my friends at Mezcalvago in Oaxaca state, kind of central Mexico. Southern end is going to be great surfing culture down there on the ocean. Watuco, I've been there and check it out. It's one of the coolest places on the planet. Stunning. And coffee down there is incredible. Good to hear, because I don't think coffee anywhere but Italy is worth it. No, the coffee in Oaxaca and Watuco specifically, best coffee I've ever had. Really incredible. And they actually go really well with Mezcal. That's a very fun way to taste Mezcal or make Mezcal cocktails is mixing something. A lot of times people will say, Oh, Mezcal is smoky, but tequila is not smoky. Tequila can be smoky, Mezcal can be smoky. Traditionally, these piñas are the hearts of the plants in order to get the sugar and convert it into fermentable sugar. They're roasted underground in pits. And that means that you're putting hot stones underneath them that are producing smoke. The smoke comes up and through these plants and can lend it a certain smokiness. It does it. It does have a smokiness. It's got that the fire has been put out, you know, wafting in the summer. And it's got that essence to it. It really does have that smokiness. And it comes through. Like smoke, like more like food, maybe a little bit of ash. Yeah. Yeah. This type of state, this particular plant. So this batch was 500 liters. I mean, this was probably 300 plants that mature once in their whole life to make this one batch of something. This was wild fermented. This was distilled in very small copper pot stills. This is a fifth generation that we know of, family distiller in the middle of a town called, well, outside of a town called Candelaria Yegolay. It's just really tiny production. I've seen photos. It's crazy how small it is. Yeah, very, very small family. The distilleries there are called Palenques in the middle of Oaxaca. Most towns have one Palenque that someone might produce once a month or once a year. If there's a wedding, if there's a funeral, if there's a quinceañera, there's always someone that everybody knows that makes a small amount of mezcal for ceremonial reasons. The ones that make very good mezcal kind of gain a reputation far and wide. In this particular one, the distiller here is a gentleman named Aquilino García López, his now son-in-law, the gentleman from the United States that married his daughter. They tasted this mezcal, they brought it to their little bar on the coast, and people just said, this is the best mezcal I've ever had. You need to turn this into a business six or seven years ago. They decided to create a label six years ago and start exporting it, and then importing it into the United States, and people went crazy for it. I find these spirits to be that little bit of smokiness like you said, Jeff, but also they're very green, very vegetal, just very distinct. Yeah, this is one of the best spirits I've ever had. It's super complex, but yet it's unique. Got a lot of finesse. They say they want the in your face, and not so aggressive is not the word I'm looking for, but it's not that. It is and it's not at the same time. It really walks that line between concentration and pronounced aromatics, but also just a lot of finesse. I think it's great. The aromatics too, when you came back in the room here, you can smell it, almost to the point of like gin botanicals. Like what is in that? There's nothing in this. And that being said, there's nothing in this. There are also not worms in this. A lot of people will say, oh, Mezcal, that's the one with the worm. Yeah, that was Mezcal for a long time was kind of like the dirtball little brother to tequila. And it was kind of a challenge. And I'll try and drink this and eat the worm or the scorpion or whatever it is that's in the bottle. But really, these should not have any of that. They're just beautiful, really pure spirits. And really, you take a plant that's grown 15 to 50 years, once you put that expression in the bottle, we're not going to adulterate it with worms or anything else. These are just, they're stunning. This is also 52% alcohol, very high alcohol. You wouldn't know it though. I mean, it just really wears it so well. Well, the oils, everything are intact, very small still. So you have, yeah, oils and fats. Yeah, you don't get that mouthwarm if you get from something of a super high alcohol content. It's not warming and I don't feel flushed. It's really good. Let's move on to the second one. The cool thing with this one, this comes from our friends at Siembra Metal, Don Mateo. This is distilled in wood. So how do you distil in wood? Yeah, excuse me? How do we do that? So these are hollowed out trees traditionally then with a tin bottom tack to them. Cool. This comes from a different state. So we are in Oaxaca state. We're now in Michoacan state. This was the first mezcal to leave this state. This is distilled through two different types of trees. One is a domestic to this state called Ollamel and the second is a juniper tree. Cool. Very, very cool. And so not only with this mezcal, we don't have the reductive effect of using copper, which pulls sulfites and earthy notes out of the spirit. So those are all left in there, big, bold, heavy, oily, but they're also, it's distilled in wood. So what's left in the wood after multiple distillations and very often is big, vaginal notes, floral notes, lots of yeasty notes. Definitely get that here. The yeast, for sure. It's not, you know, like pizza dough yeast, it's just kind of underlying, but it really adds a great layer of complexity here. I wanted to grab this one too. This is a style called Pechuga style, which means chicken. You hear a lot about these Pechuga style mezcals, which is a ceremonial mezcal where the mezcal is distilled through a chicken. I'm sorry, what now? Yeah. A lot of times these families raise their families in their villages on chicken or corn or rabbits, whatever it is. And so ceremonially, they will actually suspend a chicken in the still and distil the spirit through it. That's awesome. Like gin, but gross. But grosser. But animals. So, I mean, can you really taste it? Not necessarily. There are people, I mean, this does not taste like chicken. I mean, is it getting maybe oils and some viscosity from it? Also, ceremonially, corn is important to the family. Maybe you'll distill through corn. If raspberries or almonds or something else that's handy. So you will get all of these other really beautiful, dense flavors to it. Pechugas tend to be a bit more rare, maybe distilled once a year. If you find them in the bottle, almost every different mezcal house has a Pechuga style. They tend to be a lot more expensive because the ingredients are a little bit more intense and rare. But really, really pretty. I love the wood distillation in that. So the last one we're going to try is really, really beautiful, really special. This is again from Mezcalvago. Mezcalvago has become very much like family to me, where they were some of the finest and first mezcal that I tasted. And when I go to Oaxaca, next time you go to Oaxaca, Jeff, they take really good care of you. This comes from a different Palenque or distillery. This one again is copper distilled, but this comes from our friend Emigdio, and this is a tobalá. The tobalá traditionally is the agave that takes the longest to ripen. These can take 20, 25, 30, 35, 50 years for the plant to mature. I liken it a bit to Saturn in that the plant sits there and intensifies and sits like on itself in the land. And probably the person that helped kind of watch this plant grow and watch over it, they might not have even been the person in the family that's now distilling it. This plant could be 30, 40, 50 years old. This particular batch on this one, 202 liters. The reason that if you're a big mezcal drinker, a lot of mezcal is distilled from espadine. Espadine comes from blue webber agave, which is what we make tequila from. Those plants ripen the most quickly, five to seven years, and can very often, one plant could be 50 liters of spirit or 30 liters of spirit. Tobala is traditionally one to two liters of spirit per peanut. So you have the plant that takes the longest to mature, produces absolutely the least amount of fermentable sugar and juice at the end of the day. So these 200 liters of spirit came from maybe 300 plants that took one year for someone to gather. These are not easy. You can't just go grow them. You have to go out and be walking around in the hills and looking for them. These were all found wild. So the intensity of the sugar and the flavor and the vegetal, the fruity notes, everything in this, this is sitting 51.6 percent alcohol. This is something that if we are lucky, this distiller, he might find the plants to produce it one time per year. It's like truffles. It's like truffles. Yeah. But truly just a real sense of like the taste of the land there. All of these, unfortunately, or fortunately, these are not mezcal you'd probably use to make cocktails out of. No. They're too rare. They're too expensive. We don't have a lot of mezcal distilleries that are owned by huge companies. It's great. I'm a mezcal fan. I don't know that I was so much before, but I'm in Hook Line and Pinca. And Caballito. Hook Line and Caballito. I like that. Being in Mexico, but now I know even more about mezcal because before I was just like, oh, it's tequila, fancy tequila. But now that I know all the backstory, and that's one of the things that kind of got me into bourbon when I first was looking at whiskeys and bourbon and the history of it and the backstory and the process. This is even a cooler process in mezcal. So I'm blown away by this. But as we wrap here, we have to get to our Q&A, which we can't go without that. Customer Q&A, folks. So if you go ahead and write into us, at Binny's Bev on Twitter, you might win 20 bucks. Just like this gentleman, Pappy Hour is going to win for this wonderful question from Monique. Best handle ever. He or she writes, I feel there's an elitist attitude against blended scotch. Is this real or something just I noticed because I prefer blended? That is a really great question, Pappy Hour. I... That's it. It's tough. That's really tough. It is extremely difficult to blend scotch consistently. I mean, to be able to take all the different elements of a Johnny Walker, or a Dewar's, or a Famous Grouse, and blend them together to make the most popular whiskey in the entire world consistently, whether I taste it in Chicago or Taiwan. It's really difficult. Well, you know what? I know I think that there might be a stigma, or is because the trend now is this super local or single origin, right? Organic, those kind of terms are more closely associated with a single malt, and a blend of different producers is going to be seen as lesser quality. I think people kind of take that trend and then they appropriate it onto something like scotch and then just kind of makes it unfair. I think you're absolutely right. It doesn't deserve that, but I think that single malts and I think too with people just wanting to try new things, and there's so many different single malts, you don't see a lot of new blends out there, you don't see necessarily a lot of branding for new blends. For a long time, they kind of got relegated to the bottom shelf, and being something that you always had with soda or with ice, not something you respected in its own right. So I don't think that it's founded. I do think that that's a lot of people's impression, but whatever you like, stick to your guns and have a comfort level that you know what you like, you've tried a number of things, and you know what? This to me is a good value for this price point, and this is what I feel like drinking, and anybody who says any difference, just grape the jerk. No, at the end of the day, the answer is if you like it, it's good. That's it. Doesn't matter who made it, where it comes from, what it costs. If you like it, then it's good. Amen. Absolutely. With that, I'm going to drop this mic again. Thanks for joining us, friends. Good one today, Monique. Ladies and gentlemen, Jeff, thank you. Wait a minute, wait a minute. Ladies and gentlemen and Jeff? Come on now. Yeah, sorry. Jeff. Just Jeff. I'll take it. You're the best, Jeff. You're the only one I see. For another week. That's not true. I know. Then for another week, thanks again for coming out. Yeah, thanks folks. Really appreciate it. See you next time. Barrel to Bottle with Binny's Beverage Depot. Keep tasting.