Welcome back to another episode of Barrel to Bottle, The Binny's Podcast. I'm here today to talk about fortified wine. My name is Barb Stedman, Assistant Director of Wine Sales. With me in the room is... Pat Brophy, Director of Corporate Wine Operations. You wish. Pat Brophy, Director of Spirit Sales. Shannon Heitkamp, Social Media and Events. Roger Adamson, Beer Education and Marketing. Alicia Barrett, Wine Education. Thanks for coming, Alicia. I know Madeira especially, but all Fortified Wines is one of your passions. We're really excited to talk about it today. Yes, as am I. It's a category that deserves to be spoken about. There is just some amazing products out there that are ones that you should be familiar with. Oftentimes, we think about Fortified and just think that it's our grandmother that had it after dinner, but there are many products and varying levels of sweetness. Roger, Pat is just sitting at the edge of his seat planning the jokes. Roger looks like the little brother who's waiting for his turn at Duck Hunt for Mario when his older brother is on level 47 or something. He's just sitting there like doesn't want to get up to pee, otherwise he might miss his turn. I'm waiting for Alicia to finish her sentence so I can turn and invite Roger into the conversation because I just feel him like, please. Yes, as any Barrel to Bottle listener will know, I tried to talk about Madeira whenever possible. Even when it doesn't really make sense. So it is one of the most underappreciated products, not just in wine, but across the board in our stores. Misunderstood, generalized. I'm so excited we're finally giving it its due. Me too. And the three of us are going to torture everyone else in the room with how much we love Madeira, and especially in the fall and winter. It's such a great category to explore. So what are we starting with, Alicia? So in your glass right now, we are starting with Circeal, which is the great bridal here. And Circeal actually means dog strangler. And this is a Madeira? This is a Madeira. Yes. So we're on the island of Madeira here, well into the Atlantic Ocean, I think pretty much on latitude with Morocco. Yeah, handsome soccer man, Cristiano Ronaldo, famously from Madeira. That's fact. Thank you. Circeal means dog strangler, huh? It does. I wonder how it got that name. In reference to its screeching acidity. It's the noble grape that is planted the least on the island. Only 20 hectares, about 50 acres or so, are planted with Circeal. That is what we're starting with. This is from Rare Wine Company. What's the specific bottling? Yes. Even more specifically, this is- This is the Rare Wine Company Historic Series, Madeira Charleston Circeal Special Reserve. Yes. This is coming from, and excuse my pronunciation, but from Vinho Barbetos. They are really esteemed producer on the island. They do this especially for the US market, and it is a premium line that they offer, and you can always expect great quality from them. They name each of their Madeiras after different original colony cities in the United States. That's how you can pinpoint which one is which off the shelf. But yeah, to start with this is a great lead-in to all other fortified wines. Circeal is considered the driest of the Madeira styles. And we should note that more often than not, the best Madeiras are labeled by varietal. Is that true? Yes, that is true. And really only in the last 20 years or so, that has taken hold after regulations have now committed them to do that. But yes, so when you look and see Circeal, and we'll move through the three other great varietals for a total of four, they are an indication of style and varietal. So when you don't see that on the label, it's going to be a younger Madeira, often with tintanegra, and just not as much time in age, and we'll talk about it. Roger's got no time for that. The ignoble grapes. Undernoble. So on the labels of these, they feature colonial architecture. Madeira was the product of the colonies, and we've talked about this before, like around the 4th of July, if you're looking for something unique to serve to your guests, if you want to be really old school and actually read the Declaration of Independence, which of course I'm a big proponent of doing on the 4th of July. We always do a toast with Madeira. That's some of the history behind it. When they wrote the Declaration, they toasted with Madeira. Madeira was one of the most popular wines in colonial America, most popular drinks alongside rum and hard cider. It really has a proud lineage. While it's become pretty obscure nowadays, it was very commonplace and revered back in the 18th century. Thomas Jefferson wants you to drink Madeira. Yeah, very famous Madeira collector, Thomas Jefferson. Yes, and the island really became the first stop on many explorers' routes over to what is now North America. But to them, just to the West Indies and so forth, they were stopping at Madeira to stock up and they found that actually this wine tasted better after it spent time in barrel rummaging around the bottom of the ship, going across, exposed to some heat, some oxidative aging, and they found that they actually liked that better. And so, yes, it was huge in the colonial times and widely consumed. Yeah, important to note, Madeira famous for its indestructibility. This wine will age in barrels outside in direct sunlight in the heat, in weather, it can once a bottle is open, you can close it again and it's going to last forever. That's the impression I'm under at least, is totally just indestructible. Which is another great reason to give it a try because unlike so many other wines, you don't have to commit to drinking it all in one sitting. It's something that you can treat basically like a spirit and put it back in your cabinet. Yeah, I agree. Or fridge. Most of my experience with Madeira, some are a little bit more fragile than others. They're going to be marginally susceptible to oxygen still, as any great bottle of maybe scotch or bourbon would be over time. It will start to kind of lose a little bit of the freshness, but definitely Madeira is the most indestructible style of wine there can be, because when we talk about wine falling apart or aging too quickly, it's coming in contact with oxygen and or heat. Madeira has already gone through that process, so it can't get more oxygenated. Exactly. And really with- Oxidized. Thank you. You're welcome. With some of the lower price point, and I will say lower quality, but just in terms of what's kind of put into them. Oftentimes, Madeiras see a process called a Stufa gem, and a Stufa is Portuguese for a hothouse or a stove. And that is what these wines at younger than the one we are drinking now, but that is what they go through. And they're in a big tank and they have hot pipes and or a sleeve that's around that tank that heats that wine to about 115 degrees Fahrenheit, and it's under that heat for a minimum of three months. So that is almost equal to the wine seen two years in Oak Barrel. So there are quickly... Artificially aging. Artificially aging this wine. And so when you see kind of three year Madeiras or Madeiras that don't have one of the great bridles we're going to talk today, the Cercele, Verdele, Boual or Malmsey, when you don't see that on it and it's a younger one, that's what it's likely Yeah, and going back even another step, I think we have to talk about what do we mean by fortified wine? Are they literally just taking wine and adding spirits to it? Yeah, and that's a really good question. And they are adding grape spirit to this wine. But the other thing to bring up is when you fortify is key. And so with each of these categories that we talk about today, discussing when they are adding grape spirit during fermentation matters. Everybody always asks when, nobody asks why. So why do they fortify these wines? Well, and others can jump in. But back in the day when they were sending these wines on ships to other destinations, they found that adding things like brandy allowed the wine to fight off some of the kind of the bacteria. Preservative. Yes, exactly. It acted as a preservative. So it ups the alcohol to a point where it's not going to get infected, so to speak, with wild yeast or bacteria or something, and it just fortifies it for time. Exactly. For a long ship voyage, basically. I mean, I have to fortify myself to go overseas, don't you? I mean, I generally have a cocktail or two before I go on a voyage. So these wines need a cocktail, that's all. Yeah, I think it started as necessity and a bit of a happy accident, and then they started purposefully creating the process. Exactly. Yeah, there were no refrigeration vessels and things to protect it. So yeah, so then you get to when you fortify, and the Cercele that we're having now is fortified at the latest stage, almost to when fermentation has been completed. There's still some residual sugar there. So the yeast have not finished their job in converting that to alcohol, but they do let it continue on. As you progress through the main grapevitals of Madeira, you find that they fortify earlier and earlier and earlier, and thus your sweetness level in the final wine is determined. So Cercele here generally dries, so it's gone through the highest, longest time of fermentation, and then it's fortified. And then once it's fortified, is it then bottled or is it aged further? Yes, it is aged further at that point. So the wine we are drinking is aged in a Contero method. So it was not subject to those hot sleeves that I had mentioned earlier for a three month kind of high heat period. Instead, it was put into barrel and stored in kind of the lofts of some of these old wineries. And so it would get some heat for sure, but it was not harsh. It was a gentle period of oxidatively aging this wine and in a warm environment, yes. And when you look at the bottle, this one doesn't have an age indication, but some you might see 15 years or some you might see 5 or 10. And that will be the average age of the wine. So blending is a component with Madeira as well. So average, so if you see an age statement on a Madeira, that's the average age in the bottle. Got it. Well, cool. Let's taste it, huh? Yeah, let's talk about how delicious this is. The flavor profile, you know, we'll find as we taste through. We only have two Madeiras to taste today, but the difference in them will be substantial. So this is my second Madeira ever. I haven't tasted one in a very long time. And what do you think, Shan? It's different. I like it. I get kind of like this flat cola, cherry, raisin-y, like with a little bit of like not spice. It's kind of tawny port-like, I guess, not quite as caramelly. There's some acidity cutting through it though, right? Exactly. And that's the sign of Madeira, is this fresh acidity that prevents it from being cloying and syrupy in texture. It's really bright and it helps too. There's also a citrus element to it. It might be a little bit more of a burnt lemon peel, but it is there as is some kind of orange zest. But yeah, as this wine definitely has some of the stewed fruit qualities that have come from oxidative aging and in a warmer environment. Yeah, I definitely get some of that sort of half-caramelized orange zest and a little bit of nuttiness. And I get some hints of caramel too, for sure, but I think once we move into the other style we have today, we'll be hit in the face with more of that kind of sugar. Roger, I'd like to try this as like a floater on a Belgian Abbey style beer. I bet it would be pretty neat. That's interesting. I think another context to consider for this style of Fortified Wine, and specifically Madeira, is to use it instead of a dry vermouth in a cocktail. Actually, it could be used in place of a sweet vermouth even perhaps, but I have used a Sirchelle Madeira in a Manhattan and it was absolutely amazing. It was an emergency. It was a vermouth emergency. So Madeira can easily be a little je ne sais quoi component to cocktails. It was popular as well as Sherry in kind of floating some of that in punches or just integrating it into a punch. So think like a rum drink, it can add like a nice little layer of complexity. You bring up a good point, Pat. I wrote a whole piece comparing Madeira's to different big beer styles, one of them being like a Belgian quad or a Belgian double. Also like English barley wines, they have a lot of similar characteristics, those nice like stewed fruit character, big caramel. So there's a lot to like here. I also think there's, Madeira always has to fight the stereotype of that it's all sweet. So it's important to note that we're trying noble varieties and this being the driest style, that acidity really shines through, like you said. And I mean, this is by no means sweet. There's some sweetness, but big bright acidity. So I think it really surprises people that may have tried Madeira once over the years. They probably had the sweetest variety around Christmas or something, and they thought it was a very, very sweet wine, but they really depends on the producer and the quality level. For sure. What's your favorite style, Roger? That's a really good question. It's hard for me to pick a favorite, but it would probably be Bois. Okay. So right below the sweetest or the most well-known arguably style of we're trying to Malmsey right now. But again, it also depends on the year. I've had some older Malmseys that are phenomenal. So I think at its most youthful, I enjoy the drier styles more and the older they get, I enjoy the sweeter ones. Yeah. And you referenced some older styles. And just to throw out there, when this wine is oxidatively aging, evaporation is happening. So each year, they are losing from 2% to 6%. And that's crazy. And so this wine for the care and undertaking that needs to go into it, in terms of these grapevirtals, where they are grown and the entire process, and then also the fact that they're kind of losing product over time. These are great values. And as has already been mentioned, you can keep these for years. So the one we're drinking today from Rare, it's $52.99, but you can have it for years. And your pours for your guests are three ounces. So you're not going to fly through it. And the Cercele especially is a great one to have as a pairing for appetizers. A lot of sheep's milk cheeses go really well with it. So your cheese and charcuterie boards would be great. And because it has that beginning kind of roasted nut element to it, thus any kind of cheeses alongside the nuts would be really great as well. These are, I think, are bar none one of the best values in our stores. I mean, if these were popular, they could be twice as much money for the amount of effort that goes into making them. So as it ages and evaporates, is it fair to say that the wine gains in body and texture? Yes. That's why it's so thick. Texture especially, right? Two seas thick. Yes. I read an account of one that was able to have a particular Madeira that was 50 years old and it was so viscous and thick. So the first one we passed around was the Cerceal. There's a second and third kind of middle styles, and those are called Ferdelho and Boual, which Roger referred to. This last one we're gonna taste is Malmsey, and this is considered probably the sweetest of the four styles. Yeah, so this is Rare Wine Company's New York Malmsey. I like that you said it like, New York Malmsey. Like, you said very like Katherine Hepburn 40s, like, New York Malmsey, come on in, let's taste this Madeira. It does make you feel fancy. So in between the two styles is Ferdelho, which is usually my jam. Like, you find that happy spot, the like, what's that? Aesop's Fable or what's the, about the porridge or whatever? Goldilocks? The three bears? Yeah, the three bears. Goldilocks and the three bears. You find your sweet spot with Madeira. What was red to you when you were a kid? Well, not geography and not Goldilocks. I'm still stuck on where Madeira is. It's the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. I don't even know. But I like Ferdelho because it just, it kind of checks all the boxes for me. It has a little bit of sweetness, the acidity, the nuttiness, and then you move into Boile, and that gets even a little bit more raisiny and caramely. Now we're passing around the Malmsey. So same producer, same general method, but how is this one different? Yeah, so I mean, this is a different grape bridle. So this is Malmsey Bronco de Sao George, and it has naturally higher sugar levels than the Cercele did. And as I mentioned, they're going to be fortifying it much earlier in fermentation. And at times fermentation could last only about 36 to 48 hours before they'll go ahead and fortify this. And again, that fortification will go ahead and kill the yeast and stop fermentation, leaving residual sugar in the wine. So I agree with Pat, so much on the nose and on the palate of just chocolatey, raisin fruit, toffee and caramel. And if you are a big Port fan, this would be the obvious step over to Madeira. If you have a crowd that does really like the sweeter styles, this is how you can introduce them to Madeira. This is awesome. It is. Absolutely. And I think I agree 100 percent. I think those who like especially Tawny Port and especially in that 20 to 30 year range, Malmsey, Madeira is a step over and usually a little bit more affordable. This one's also $52.99 compared to say a 30 year Tawny Port that's around $100 a bottle, but this has so much more energy and acidity. You'd be surprised how many grams residual sugar is in this because the acidity is still there. Do I really want to know? It's probably about 60. Oh, at least, yes. At least 60. It's rum-like. Grams per liter. The complexity on this is amazing. Again, even though this would be considered the sweetest variety, the acidity is there too. It's not going at all. Yes. If you were to buy one of the sweeter varieties that would say an unage statement, ones made with tintanegra, it might not have the acidity to back it up, but this is just perfect. I think, too, we can talk about some crossover hobbyists because for me, there's something about Boual and Malmsey Madeira that is akin to bourbon. It has that rich, very lush caramely tone. It's easy to sip. It's got a punch, but it's not too hot. Also, I want to talk about serving temperature for these, right? Alicia, we're talking 55, 60 degrees. What do you think? Yeah, a slight chill for sure. I would go ahead and put them in your fridge 20 minutes or so, half hour before you plan to serve them. I think it just shows the wine in a great way, and you want to store them in your fridge as well. Though they are pretty indestructible, all of your unopened wines are stored in your fridge. Once these are open, keep it in the fridge. Yeah. Got it. Shannon, do you like this one or the Cersei All Better? I enjoy this one a little bit more. There's a little bit more complexity. I really love the chocolatey notes. I kind of get on the nose this really nice cedary spice, but it almost has that apricot jam, cedar. I don't know. It's really nice. As you guys were saying, I was expecting it to be very sweet from smelling it, and it's not at all. Not at all. It's just very nice and pleasant. Yeah. This style gets a lot more into that dried apricot or fig component, that more dried fruit versus fresh fruit. I love this wine. Yeah. All the grapevirtals that we've mentioned here are white grapevirtals. That is a big difference to port. These are white grapes, so that's why we are getting some more citrus and stone fruits that we're mentioning. Many have the stewed raisined quality. That's what gives it such a different profile. I also will mention Fraschera. If you are able to ever find a Fraschera, this is a vintage Madeira. Unlike in other places, you don't need to declare a vintage in Madeira. You can just deem some of your wine worthy of 20 plus years of aging. I will say that the most expensive bottle of wine I've ever purchased and is still in my collection is a birth year Madeira. If you people are real nice to me, I might let you try it. Not worth it. But again, going back to the indestructibility, that's the reason that you can purchase something that's 30 years old. It was an exceptionally spontaneous purchase several years ago. Every year on my birthday, I can take a sip of this wine and put the cork back in it and go back to it the next year. I can do that every birthday for the rest of my life and it's not deteriorating. It's been a really wonderful journey, but that is something that you can absolutely make an investment in. Hopefully, you live a little longer than that Barb. For the rest of your life. How much are you drinking? It's just a sip. It's just a special sip every night when I- She doesn't share any with her husband. He doesn't care about it, but you might. Or maybe know about it. Oh, he knows about it. It was his credit card. These two, if you ever get nervous about, if you want to serve wine with hors d'oeuvres, like you mentioned before, these are like the Swiss Army Knife of, it will work with almost anything. You're putting out different dried fruits, nuts, figs, apricots. If you have any jam out with a nice goat cheese, I mean, it works really, really well with a whole myriad of different options. I love the term Swiss Army Knife for Madeira especially, but for any fortified wine and especially in those mid-sweetness tears for Madeira. I think it's one of those just breathtaking glasses of wine that will make your neighbors and your guests jealous that you're the one that brought it, or you're the one that thought of it because it's just, this is delicious, what is it? Either they have no idea what it is and you get to be the smart one in the room because Binny's taught you everything you know about wine, or they know what it is like they're somebody like me or somebody else enthusiastic about wine. They know what it is and they go, you're so smart to have bought Madeira. I wish I would have thought of that. It's a wine for people in the know. How many times do you go to a dinner party and bring a bottle of wine and everyone brings a Napa Valley Cabernet? Or Chardonnay or Pinot Grigio or champagne even is very common. Yes, so especially this holiday season, doing something outside the box. Yeah, don't be so basic. Bring Madeira. This is the official start of bring Madeira back. Yeah. Hashtag don't be basic. Yeah, this is really awesome. Real quick, this is rain water. Binny's also carries a style of Madeira called rain water. And it actually, some say, I don't know if this is true fact, yeah, but some say that the term rain water comes from the bung being left open on the barrel on voyage to the United States in water, getting into the barrel, diluting it down to this kind of lighter, paler style of Madeira. And it is a very affordable style. And rain water, that style was very popular still in colonial times. So if you want kind of an easy entrance, rain water would be a great style to pursue. And it's usually in the style like more medium sweet, right? Like slightly off dry? Correct. Hotly debated origin story. Do you have another one? I've heard that it was the barrels were on land, but same concept. Water got into the barrels. It started raining on the day. That debate was lukewarm at best. Well, they were probably on land because on a ship they'd be inside. That's true. That's true. Okay. We're finding the story here. Barrels on land. Water got in. But yeah, that's a lot of people's entry into Madeira because it's usually at some places that don't have as good of a selection as Binny's Beverage Depot. That might be the only Madeira they have. If you had to describe the general taste of Madeira in three sentences to a customer who's never had it before, how would you describe what Madeira tastes like? Madeira is a fortified wine that compare with all courses that you plan to serve. Refreshing acidity, brilliant citrus, stone, and a little stewed fruit quality. And depending on the grape variety you pick, it can satisfy that lovely chocolatey, cocoa, toffee, caramel, sweet, delicious, lush wine that you crave at the end of the meal. Fair enough. Three sentences. One of them was run on, but it's okay. How about you just Wilfrid Brimley it and go, it's the right thing to do. Roger, any other thoughts about Madeira and why you love it? Incredibly unique. I'm like the Johnny Appleseed of Madeira, trying to spread the wealth of it. I bring it to bottle shares where people are usually opening up rare beers and things that are barrel-aged. It's always just such a fun aha moment. Every once in a while, Sam Adams' Utopias comes out and they asked me what that tastes like. I've always famously said, you should go buy yourself a bunch of great bottles of Madeira because that's what Utopias ends up tasting like. It's such a complex, when we were describing the last wine, you heard how many different descriptors everyone threw out. It's really, they're all there. It's amazing, the different things you can pick up. You're not just, you might sound snobby, you might sound like you're trying to write for a wine magazine or whatever, but it's there. The complexity is there. It's not overly sweet. It really surprises a lot of people. It's a cool wine. We also didn't touch upon how Madeira is famous as a cooking wine. So a lot of people have this misconception that if you're going to cook with something, you need to just buy cheap stuff. We've always tried to emphasize the same way it goes for making cocktails. The better ingredients you put in, the better cocktail you're going to get. Absolutely. It's fine. We sell five-year-old Madeira's around $25. They're fine to cook with. You should be able to enjoy a glass of it with whatever you're eating. Yeah, you're not using a lot to cook with. Cook with a little bit and drink the rest. Right. I wonder what was everyone's favorite around the table? Well, Roger's having a few more. Roger, what are you? Malmsey. More Malmsey, please. He's got the gentleman's measure over there. Look at this. Shan, favorite wine today? I'd have to go with the Malmsey as well too. Good. Patrick? Malmsey, baby. We're all saying Malmsey, but I have to agree today that's also my favorite. I will vote for Cersei. Of course he will. Because it pairs better with turkey. Give a little shout out to the dryer style. Well, brilliant acidity, but. Well, that's it for this week. Who opened it? You gotta wrap it up there. Oh, I thought that wasn't the rule. You wanted to be the rule. I don't make the rules. So that's it, Fortified Wine from Handsome. That's it, Fortified Wine. Well, there's your historical taste of Madeira. So until next week, I'm Pat. I'm Shannon. I'm Roger. I'm Barb. And I'm Alicia. Keep drinking. Keep tasting. Now say it right. Keep tasting.