Hey, welcome back to Barrel to Bottle, The Binny's Podcast. I'm Pat from the Spirits Department, and I reluctantly have to talk about Old Man Beer this week. Thanks, Roger. You're welcome. I enjoy doing this to you year after year. All right, so Roger from Beer's here. Who else is here? I'm Chris, I do wine, and I also drink beer upon occasion. Greg, I do communications at Binny's. Okay, Greg's here too. He sounds really excited to be here. We have a returning friend here who's going to be here more often. Welcome back, Jenna. Hello, thank you for having me, everyone. Very excited. Yay. Hey, Jenna. You guys don't sound that excited. We are. Maybe it's because we have to drink Anchor Steam today. Come on. I like Anchor Steam. Oh, I'm kidding. I have not had a single one of these beers in my life. Have not tried any of these. I find it hard to believe that you've worked at Binny's Beverage Depot for any measurable amount of time and haven't tried these six beers. A single one of these six beers. Actually, today is my six-year anniversary with Binny's, and I have not had a single one of these because when I started, the beer guys, looking at you, Roger, you guys made me feel so pedestrian for asking what zombie dust was or any of so. That's exactly my point with this flagship February. For those of you who are unfamiliar with this concept, here's a little background. There's a well-known beer writer, I guess as well known as Beer Writers Go named Stephen Beaumont. And he's written some books about beer, some of those classic beers that you have to try, 101 type beers. And he also is involved as a consultant and a beer blogger. So in 2019, he sent out a couple of tweets, which they gained a lot of attention. And he was essentially talking about that there's the idea of flagship beers, the beers that so-called like keep the lights on. These classic beers that are the most canonical, well-known example, like brew from a brewery, that oftentimes just get kind of forgotten about and thrown by the wayside in our quest to try whatever's new. Like what's the newest beer? What's new and exciting? So what's the newest hop? We got to try the newest single hop IPA every week and stuff. And nobody, I mean, not nobody, but a lot of people stopped going back to these reliable classics. Hey, Roger, can you use your maritime expertise to tell us what a flagship is? Yeah, I mean, like the flagship is obviously going to be the main ship that's carrying the banner. The standard bearer. Yeah, the standard bearer. So essentially, you know, if there was something from which you are identifying yourself, this would be, you know, the beer that it is. So one brewery, for example, that really kind of jumped into this was Anchor Steam. They love this idea. I guess the nautical element played into it as well, as you're suggesting. But, you know, their flagship beer is so iconic that everybody refers to their brewery half the time as Anchor Steam. Right. Yeah. The brewery is actually just the anchor brewery, and that beer is called their Steam beer. So, can we say that these beers are all these breweries' jolly Rogers? I like that. Are you the only jolly Roger around? How long has he had that in his pocket? He hasn't had enough beer yet to be described as jolly, okay? What does make me quite happy about this is that this is often a chance for me to talk about malt. So, as Pat pointed out, the conversation about beer these days is more often than not about IPAs and hops. And a lot of people's flagships are not hoppy beers. A lot of them are maltier beers. And there's something to be said about that these beers are selling so well that they're still flagships for some of these breweries, yet they don't necessarily conform with what's quote unquote popular. And that's what I think is kind of neat about this idea and this concept is that, you know, just because these are well-known and classic beers to people that have been drinking beer for years, there's always people turning 21. There's always younger people getting into beer. So Jenna, who's even been working at our liquor store, is not necessarily familiar with some of these. So that's what gets me excited about the idea of Flagship February. It's a chance to visit beers, not necessarily revisit beers. This might be the first time a lot of people are trying these beers. And if you're interested in what really well-done examples of each of those styles are, this is a great time to explore those and taste them. Happy 21st birthday. Let's party. There's a can of Anchor Steam. These are classics for a reason. And if you're serious about beer, you need to know them. Not to mention the fact that they're great. I would say too, Roger, that don't you think that when you establish your brewery is going to kind of inform what your flagship is going to be or whether you even have one? Because so many breweries don't even bother with a flagship anymore. For sure. And another thing that I think is important to note is that the latest trend with breweries, especially in the Chicagoland area, is to have a tap room. So essentially, you might not even serve any food. It might just be come in, sit down, have a beer and take beer to go. And when the craft brewing revolution happened in the US and started to really take hold in the 1980s, a lot of these into the 90s when a lot of the initial growth was, brew pubs were a much more common thing. And the tie between beer and food was alive and well. So I think a lot of these beers are also really fun examples of how great beer can be with food and how your enjoyment of it is a whole different avenue to go down and path to explore versus, you know, a lot of the styles nowadays are pretty difficult to pair with food. You know, if you're having like some really juicy, hazy IPA or a milkshake IPA, you're not necessarily thinking about what food that's going to go well with. You're probably just enjoying it as is. So are you implying I can't pair duck confit with a can of smooch? Case in point. Exactly. I don't know. Fruit sauces are pretty common with ducks, so smooch might work. You guys, you guys, let's open a beer. Yeah, thank you. I'm already drank one of these whole cans. I'm, you know, now it's ruined. Everyone pop the Alaskan Amber. So, whenever you're doing beer tasting, a quick reminder, it's good to go, you know, softer, lighter, more nuanced flavors to bolder, hoppier, darker. So, even though this isn't necessarily the lightest color beer we're trying today, it's probably the most reserved, nuanced, and flavor. So, let's try some Alaskan Amber. And we had the chance to talk to the founders of Alaskan and what a treat that was. So, if you want to learn more about the Alaskan Brewery, please listen to our Barrel to Bottle episode about that. They are truly one of the most eco-friendly and efficient breweries in the US. The fact that you can go and get a six-pack of Alaskan Amber for $9.99 is a marvel. I mean, they had to ship everything to Alaska and then ship the beer back all throughout the country to the lower 48. And to be able to hit that, they only did so by, you know, embracing all the latest in brewing technology and reuse. It's really kind of a marvel. If you're into engineering, there's a lot to learn and be amazed by with their operation up there. Alaskan Amber is, it's kind of modeled after a very obscure style, a German style called an Altbier, which refers to old beer, the old style. So, you think of Germany and typically, you're gonna think of lagers, things like Pilsner, Helles, Bachbier. Before lagers took hold over there, they were brewing ales, they were typically using darker-kinned malts. They were looking, when they opened Alaskan, to embrace some of the heritage of the state and the area. Gold is what brought a lot of people to Alaska. They actually found a historical recipe for beer that was being brewed during the Alaskan Gold Rush. So, this beer is an homage to that original type of beer that some of the first settlers in Alaska trying to make a stake acclaim up there would have enjoyed. That's a great beer. It's clean. It's got a bit of that caramelized malt character, enough hop to balance it. This is a beer that I don't think anybody would try and dislike. It's also one of those beers that I don't think anybody would try and it would blow them away. This is just beer. It is good, clean, flavorful beer that's light enough to throw a few back. It's a great beer. If the word malty were a beer, it would be this beer. I suppose, but it's not unbalanced, though, Greg. Yeah. What's nice about this is that if you really take another sip of this and focus on the finish. One of the most popular beer styles out there from a seasonal standpoint is Oktoberfest. I think a lot of people really love Oktoberfest so much because it's malt-centric. Think Oktoberfest when you drink this, but then focus on the finish. This is a much drier beer than your typical Oktoberfest. No, I agree. Yeah, it's snappy at the finish, autumnal leaves, and then like a graham cracker, just cracker finish, which says malt, but it's cleaner, it's sharper. You're right. I enjoyed it. Going into this, knowing I hadn't had these, I did some research, mostly just looked up reviews, to be honest with you, and someone, a quote I liked, whispers of fruit notes, and I'd have to agree. I get a little tiny amount of citrusy fruits there, that balances out. I enjoy it, but I agree with Pat. I think it's there, it's beer. I don't know that it wouldn't be in my top 10 favorites, but it's good. Yeah, I taste it and it's like, yep, that's a beer. That's a beer. I'll have another. Yeah. That just speaks to how well crafted this beer is, and how well balanced it is. The malt character is central, but it's quite dry on the finish, but you still get caramely and graham crackery notes for sure, without them being overly sweet, and the hops are just there for balance. It's really perfectly made. Pretty good training wheels beer. I've had some examples of beer like this where, they're close, there's something to like about it, but the accession ability, which should be part of this, should be the ability to drink more than just one of them, isn't necessarily there in some of the people that are approaching the style for the first time or it's something that's new to them. When people ask like, all right, so it's an amber ale, like why do you real on this so much and why should I go try Alaskans? Alaskan is an example of someone who has perfected this style. If you want to learn what it can be, it's nice to know where it begins and how good it can taste, how well it can be executed. By the way, if you run a brewery and you want to make sure that you take beer home at the end of the beer festival, bring an amber. Again, this is the kind of beer that is not for a beer festival, Greg. This is the kind of beer that real people buy and drink on a daily basis. Plagueship. To show you a few things, I really wanted to talk about this brewery, I really wanted to talk about the difference that a yeast strain can make, and again, in the spirit of an amber malt-centric beer that's still dry and can pair with literally anything, quite possibly the best beer to drink with a hamburger, cheeseburger, Anchor Steam Beer. So Anchor Steam, for all these flagship February beers, I always like to emphasize when it was first brewed. So Alaskan Amber was introduced in 1986. Anchor Steam Beer was one of the first American craft beers. So post-prohibit, the repeal of prohibition, this is arguably the beginning of the craft beer movement was with the saving of the Anchor Brewing Company. So the Anchor Brewing Company actually was around since the 1800s, but it had changed hands, it had been on and off production. In 1965, it was basically on its last legs and was going to go out of business. A man named Fritz Maytag, yes of the Maytag Appliance fame. And cheese. Yeah. Some of the best American cheese. He loved the Anchor beers, heard that the brewery was so dire that it was about to go out of business, and he saved it from destruction with a very ambitious, forward-thinking look towards better beer. You have to remember the state of beer in America in 1971 was abysmal. The breweries had withered down to less than 100, I think. When it was at its worst, it was literally 80 breweries. I think that was 10 years later, believe it or not. Anchor Brewing, first and foremost, wanted to resurrect this unique beer style for which they were so famous, called Steam Beer. The idea of why it's called Steam is somewhat debated, but the most likely explanation is that this beer was cooled in large vats on the top of the brewery at night when it was colder out, and it would look like you could see these big billowing steam coming off of the beer as it cooled. It was a pretty unique process in making this beer. This is brewed with a lager yeast strain, but it's fermented warm in shallow pans, so you get a very different flavor. You drink this and nothing really about it speaks of a lager in the typical sense. You know, this is brewed in San Francisco, and it definitely has some of that like San Francisco tang that they're so famous for with their sourdough bread. Sourdough? Yep. Hey Jenna, what do you think of this beer? It's good, I'm not gonna lie. If I blind tasted both of these that we just had, I wouldn't know the difference. Yeah. But they're both, I mean, they're both good. That's interesting. I got, now, did everybody grab a can of this or a bottle? We got cans. I have a bottle. I have a bottle. Oh, I got a can. I love the cans. Pat, do you think that the can cuts down on the tang a little bit? Cause I don't. I do. The tang from that house yeast is still there. It doesn't seem to be as over the top as it has been in recent anchor brewery bottles I have had, notably even Christmas ale. I also think that it's not necessarily like as wild as Pat's implying. When I say tangy, I don't necessarily mean there's like lacto-basilis in there. There might be. Yeah, not at all. I'm not implying that. Let's tie a bow on this with just going really, as some fun brewing facts here. Anchor really did and deserves a big tip of the hat for being revolutionary in their approach to reviving interest in classic beer styles. I just wanted to run through real quick here. This beer was released in 1971. In 1972, they released their Porter, which was the first modern American Porter brewed. In 1975, they introduced Liberty Ale, which was the super unknown obscure style of beer called an IPA. Then in 1975, they also released Old Foghorn Ale, which was the first barley wine to be brewed in America since Prohibition. And they released a beer called Christmas Ale, which was the first holiday or seasonal Christmasy ale ever made in the US since Prohibition. So, we really do owe a lot to Anchor. They inspired countless early brewers and they still inspire people to this day, I would argue. And their portfolio has a lot of cool stuff to try. So, if you've never tried Anchor, please give it, you know, there's multiple styles from them, worth tasting, Steam is obviously the classic, like Alaskan, this pairs well with all sorts of food. So, consider that when you're enjoying one, you can try it with all sorts of different cuisine. All right, next beer. Oscar Blues, Dale's Pale Ale. This is more modern in style, for sure. More forward-thinking brewers here. This came out in 2002, during which, if you wanted to put a quote unquote better beer, a beer that was made with higher quality ingredients, no adjuncts, no cereal grains, you would be considered crazy to put it in cans. Cans was for not only macro beer, a lot of the times it was stigmatized as cheaper budget macro beer. But as we all know now, since a lot of people refuse to buy anything beer and anything but a can, cans are actually better for the beer. When it comes to oxygen exposure and light exposure to the biggest enemies of beer, you absolutely want to drink something out of a can. So this again, revolutionary in preaching the gospel of, let's put good beer in cans. It's so much easier to chug out of a can too. That is an anathema to what we're doing here. Definitely easier to transport, easier to carry in stores, easier for, it's a lot more, think of carrying a case of beer in cans versus a case of beer in bottles. Better for the environment. Yep, that's true. Cheaper transportation costs, all kinds of stuff. Infinitely recyclable. A lot of good reasons to have beer in a can. Of note, Oscar Blues Brewery, makers of Dale's Pale Ale, was just acquired by Monster Energy Drinks like a week or two ago. Really? Yeah. The Canarchy Craft Collective. Maybe we'll see some bros wandering around getting into fights in Nashville wearing Dale's Pale Ale shirts now. It will be the for loco of craft beer. So thanks for bringing a beer. Finally, I can get into a little bit. You talked about fruit notes before. This is definitely much more on the citric end of things. When I was reading notes or reviews rather, on Beer Advocate 1, I really liked by Lager Lover, said, ugly ass can, but a good brew. 4.25 out of 5. I got to agree. I'm pretty sure my wife said the same thing about me. So to Greg's point, what's interesting here is obviously, this is much more to his liking, and if you were to look at the mash bills here and how this beer was built, this has become one of the quintessential APA's, or American Pale Ales. But when you look at what kind of malt was used for it, it's pretty well attenuated, so it has about the same if not an even lighter body than the other two. But the major difference here is just the hop selection. So this beer features Cascade and Centennial, two of the most famous classic C hops in American brewing. Definitely was going to guess Cascade. Used in so many different classic beloved beers with those two. Grapefruit giveaway of Cascade. That bitterness that catches in your throat, and it's like you're drinking something for real. This beer though wasn't for everybody. I mean, the bitterness in this at the time, this thing is 65 IBUs. There were people that drank this and just thought it was undrinkably bitter. I remember drinking it 15 years ago and thinking, these ***holes, that's not an APA. This is so hoppy. This is an IPA. They're just calling it an APA to get more people to drink it. Well, it definitely is flirting with that territory for sure. I mean, with 65 IBUs. So much so that they've actually brewed a beer called Double Dales that they bill as an IPA, and it's actually just been revamped. You can look for a new Double Dales that's billed as a double IPA. Coming out this year in 2022, it's 9% ABV. The one hop that we didn't discuss earlier was that this is used as Comet, which is kind of an interesting hop. It actually was one of the earlier American hops that kind of was around, then disappeared, and now it's coming back, and it has kind of a floral character to it, which I think you pick up if you take another sip of this and smell the aroma. Grapefruit tangerine is real central in this beer, real classic C-hop stuff, but there's something a little different that's a little floral that I think you can attribute maybe to the Comet. But I think this is a really good beer. As hoppy as it is, I think it's still really well balanced. I don't think that the bitterness is out of line in any way. Last time I was at this brewery, I was with Greg. Last time I was at this brewery, I weighed 40 pounds less. Also important to mention, one of the most famous pallets in Binny's history, Barbara Hurtman. This is one of her favorite beers. Without further ado, I don't know that there's a more famous Pale Ale in existence, and like Oscar Blue's Pale Ale, where many people would consider it an IPA, I think the exact same thing applies for this beer, if not even more so. The infamous- Sierra Nevada Pale Ale? Three Floyd's Zombie Dusk. Oh. There's something about this that feels new still. Like, this feels new school to me, and maybe that just means that I'm old. That this is a flagship and not the new hotness. Oh, this smells so good though. This smells so good. Oh, man. Yeah, it's all pineapple and tropical. This is, and it's so soft, and the bitterness on the finish is shockingly lower than I think we've kind of played it up to be too. This is a remarkably well-balanced, just awesome flavorful beer. I don't think this is particularly high in IBUs, especially as far as Three Floyd's goes. It seems relatively tame, but it's got a very modern hop nose sensibility, kind of on the forefront of the modern hops before the hazy trend took over. Yeah, this was leaning towards juicy before the hazy came in. Yeah. Exactly. Jenna, are you going to claim that you've never had this beer either? Yeah, this was literally the example I used when I said I've never had any of these beers. Yeah, they called her basic for wanting zombie dust. She's a suburban dad who's looking for zombie dust. That was probably out of somewhat of a hatred of being harassed by customers for so many years. Yeah, definitely. This Three Floyds flagship thing, it is worth noting that flagships can change at a brewery, oftentimes do over the years. A flagship from Three Floyds for years was Alpha King. That's what I was going to take exception with this because I'm older, and I still think of Alpha King as their flagship, and then Gumball Head. Yeah, it's fine. Then Gumball Head, right. Gumball Head is neck and neck, if not even higher than Zombie Dust, and that's only in Illinois though. We're obsessed with wheat beers in Illinois. We love them. The juiciness of this, this was what I would argue made it such a popular beer. First of all, it's a triple threat. It's a cool name, it's a cool artwork, and it was these hops, which at the time were pretty new. This, at least in the onset, was a single hop Citra beer. Citra hops, part of the reason so many people fell in love with them, was that they offered a new level of hop flavor, obviously, and not necessarily just citrus flavors like tropical flavors. But there's a juiciness here that makes it much more accessible than some of the other, like even within their own portfolio than Alpha King. So Alpha King, also a pale ale, but not as well attenuated and much at least presents with more bitterness. For sure. This is 65 IBUs or 62 IBUs, so it's got a little bit of bitterness to it. I mean, a lot of it really, but. But it's balanced out with fruity qualities and even softer malt. It's probably my favorite so far because of the fruitiness to it, because with my wine background, I'm much more of a fruity sour style type of beer, lighter style. So this one's probably, this is the closest up my alley out of all of these so far. Second being the Dale's Pale Ale in The Ugly Cane. In The Ugly Cane. Hey, Roger, can I throw out an honorable mention right here since we're trying zombie dust? Yeah. So a flagship that I love that it is still around and I never drink it, because I always drink something else. But Mrs. Versh came home with a four pack of it when I sent her to buy beer. I always forget that it's one of my favorite beers, but Ninja Versus Unicorn from Pipeworks is so damn good. It used to be the new hotness, but it is a staple and it has been for a decade, and it's so good. That is a great beer. It is Greg Test and Greg DePruve at a dangerously high ABV that you would never guess. I mean, that is a double IPA, and it does not drink like a double IPA. It is a great beer. All right, cool. So I'm going to throw something, a little controversy out here maybe. But Pat, you mentioned those kind of oniony aromas that you get sometimes out of certain hops. Is anybody getting a little chive or onion in there? Yes. Yeah. On the nose, right? That's fine. Yeah. No, it's not a knock. It's just something I noticed that I'm not sure I ever noticed before about the spear. You know those chemical compounds, but I have to assume that onion and chive is kind of like on its way toward, you know, caddy and dank. Yeah. Yeah. I was just going to say, I feel like a lot of Floyd spears are dank to the point of being almost like onion, chive, slash when they're really intense, they're almost like what some people describe as BO. But yeah, when you're a brewery like Floyd's, and you unapologetically really dose things high with hops, if you have pretty zoned-in palates like we do, there can be some flavors that aren't necessarily, they're not mild or gentle. You can pick up on some stuff that maybe other people would just wouldn't necessarily taste, but there's nothing subtle about their beers, like literally none of them. So, they're not necessarily about balance, most of them, like, it's over the top. So. All very true, but they can also be peeled like an onion, because they're not subtle, but they are complex. This beer was so sought after. I remember the days when, you know, when this beer was really popular, bombers were still hugely popular. It was pretty common that this beer was so sought after, a store would get two cases a week. Some stores would only get one, like the busy stores would get two. It is crazy in a way that this beer now, you can just walk into any Binny's, it's readily available. Bottles and cans. Part of that's the availability of hops now. Citra hops became so, so popular that they're grown at just exponentially higher amounts now. I'm not mistaken in saying that Three Floyd's has a vastly increased production capability since this was first introduced too, right? Right. They built a whole second facility now, which cranks. That's why, as Pat said, you can get this in cans now, which is pretty awesome. All right, so, Pat, we're finally heading out west, to your old stomping ground. It's time to go to Bend, Oregon. Okay, see, I brought a special guest on the podcast today. You can't talk about the Shoots Beer. Without my friend. Oh, no. Without my friend, Pat Brophy, the beer buyer for Binny's Beverage Depot, to stand in and talk to us about his favorite dark beers from the Mountain West. Totally forgot about that. Ridiculous. We had these cardboard cutouts of Pat made. Listeners, I'm sorry, I'm using props on a podcast. You guys should see it. He's adorable. He's like a little elf. Once again, I went into the back room once and out of the corner of my eye, I saw this little guy looking at me and I wanted to fight him, and then I was like, oh, it's little Pat. That happened to me like 30 times back in the day. Kept on turning around. Yeah. A lot of people wanted to fight Pat. Jenna, were you around when there were cardboard cutouts of me promoting to shoot beer in all the stores? No. I never got to see those, unfortunately. Well, there's two at my house. Sometime when we do a barrel to bottle live from my basement full of whiskey, you can see them there. I can't wait. Now they only serve to scare my house guests. Jenna, do you drink dark beer regularly? No. It tends to be my least-consumed style. She's under 40. I know. She's not. All the kids like stouts these days, Pat, so it's a very valid question. I want to hear her unvarnished opinion first. I'm excited to try it. There was one review that caught my attention. It reads like a movie trailer, so I was really excited to try this one after it. I'm just going to read it for you guys. I'm going to do a little performance. One beer from the West of America. Pretty much, bold reputation, soft disposition, surprising balance. Behold, an iconic and unexpectedly complex porter, that's more than meets the eye, coming to a beer cooler near you. I'm excited. That's a lot of words for a beer that smells like pudding. How dare you? Yeah. I always thought this was one of the most overhyped beers. I don't know what kind of pudding you buy, but this beer smells like roast malt and delicious hops. Know what I noticed about the can? They are Roger's most favorite thing about beer. These are bottle conditioned and can condition. Can condition? Dang. Can condition. Hallelujah, baby. This is a can conditioned beer. Now, way back in the day, back when, you know, cardboard cutout Pat was a fan of the brewery, they were very well known as being one of, at the time, only three breweries in the US who were adamant about only using whole-cone hops in their brews. It was just Sierra Nevada, it was Deschutes and it was Victory out of Downington, Pennsylvania at the time, used only whole-cone hops. Everyone's gone away from that now because you can't make these modern beer styles without using cryo or some kind of pellet from New Zealand or something like that. But at the time, this is one of them that I would assume they're still only using whole-cone hops. I'm going to interject here that I believe Anchor also was a only whole-cone hop brewery at the time. I don't know if they still are. This beer is chocolate goodness, but pudding with a snappy, clean mineral finish. Let's circle back the wagons back to Bend, Oregon who released this beer in 1988. Get it? It's an Oregon Trail joke. This beer is the best-selling porter in America, which is of note. I would argue that part of the reason behind that is that it has a pretty unique mash bill. This uses two-row chocolate, crystal, carapils, and wheat. Sometimes you'll see oatmeal in porters and stouts, but not always wheat. I think the wheat was put in there for a little bit of the mouthfeel and texture but also the lightness that you get out of this. This is a very good example of that dark beers are not always heavy beers. This is a very light, fluffy beer with a lot of bold flavors. Yeah, I agree, Roger. I mean, if you just think about the malt character of this beer, you can almost detect all of those things you just mentioned. It's very chocolatey. It has almost a Christmas that you get from wheat sometimes on the finish, and it also has just like the barest hint of roastiness that persists through the finish, but it's not that over the top, like ashy roastiness. No, it's not ashy or acrid or burnt. Right. But there's a dark fruit thing going on there too. There's like a fig and a plum in there. For sure. It's just awesome. If you're a fan of this beer, also check out the Obsidian Style from Deschutes because it has a very similar malt bill, different hops. The hops in this are Cascade and Tetanang, which is an interesting combination. You have classic American hop and Cascade, and then a noble German variety in Tetanang. I think that really gives some of the minerality, crispness, sharpness to the finish. But the Obsidian Stout, I think would be more to Greg's liking. It's a little more austere. It's a little less cocoa powder, a little more chocolatey than this, a little more depth of character, a little more austere. I would argue that this is one of the most flavorful, five and a half percent alcohol beers that you can find on our shelves. As far as flavor complexity goes, I am biased, of course. This is one of my all time favorite breweries. I grew up on this beer, but I think- When did your check arrive? He was weaned. I was weaned on this porter. But seriously, tasted blind with other beers at the price point at that alcohol level, the amount of complexity you get out of this beer is truly remarkable. So, wrapping up this, what I wanted to tie a bow on is, Greg brought up, I liked Greg's comment about how this reminded him of pudding. Think of how chocolatey this beer is, both on the aroma and the flavor, and that there's no chocolate in it. That, to me, is a perfect example of like, why do we always need to add junk things instead of using what mall already can deliver? I would not want this to be any more chocolate-like than it already is. Do we have to put cocoa powder, cocoa nibs, chocolate sauce, whatever they're going to put in a beer? So, something if there's ever, you know, a thought to any brewers out there. Talk about what a beer tastes like, and that doesn't necessarily mean you have to put actual chocolate in to something. What are Jenna's thoughts on the dischutes? A little more mild, but I'm not a big, I guess I just don't like dark heavy beer. I just don't like that chocolate in beer. I don't want to drink chocolate. Cardboard Pat is going to unfriend you. He has his own social media, right? The quality is there, it's not to my taste. I'll put it there. There we go. That's so polite. Yeah. Last but not least, what is the beer style that we probably talk about more than anything but IPA? That would be Stout, and it would be more specifically Imperial Stout. You pronounced Smooge incorrectly. This is one, I think, a beloved beer amongst the Barrel to Bottle crew, or at least some of us. Yes, yes, yes. This is something that I think is, there's so many reasons to love this beer, North Coast Old Rasputin, one of the first Imperial Stouts, Russian Imperial Stout styles brewed in America, first released in 1996. Look at that cascade. Pat to his mostly head. God, that's gorgeous. You should see how emphatically Jenna is shaking her head no. She's like, no, no, no. Yeah, I was gonna say, let's get Jenna's unvarnished opinion on this one. No, no for me. No for me. No, I mean, okay, I can see why people who enjoy this style of beer would enjoy this beer. I don't want to write it off completely. It's not particularly my style. It's got a lot going on. It's very intense. It's got a lot. The cocoa and cigarettes of the beer world. There's a lot happening. To be clear, you're talking about North Coast, not the beloved Deschutes. Yeah. That's North Coast, yes. We haven't said it yet. Have we said it? North Coast, Old Rasputin. All right. Old Rasputin, the slogan is never say die. I think it's especially appropriate for Flagship February to feature this beer, something that has been around since 1996. Countless brewers have referenced this as what got them into beer, inspired them to make beer, a beer that they- Desert Island beer, one of the best beers they've ever drank. It is like a multiple award winner. It's gotten perfect scores. It's pretty hard to overstate the importance of this beer in the world of craft beer. As excited as Pat is about Deschutes Porter, I'm excited about Old Rasputin. I love this beer. I think it's partially because it has all the complexities, and fruit notes, and roasty malty notes of a much heavier stout, but it ends up light on its feet at the end of the day. I will say I like the finish. Well said. That is one thing I appreciated about it. Then they made a Barrel-age version. It's like, what the f***? Plus, it has a Pfizer macrocephalus here on the label, a sperm whale. Nice. Thanks, Pat. Thanks. You're welcome. He has that probably tattooed on his arm. Have you harvested the Ambergris? Precious Ambergris? Precious Ambergris? Precious Ambergris. Going back to this beer, one of the other things that's easy to love about it is that it has always been and still is extremely affordable. This is a 9% alcohol beer. It comes in a four pack for 10.99. That's pretty ridiculous. That's with a recent price increase because folks, all beer is going up. It was even cheaper before. Hopefully, we are also going to see this in cans soon. Yes. They just dropped in out in Cali. They're selling this in four pack 60 ounce cans. So if you really want to get your 9% Imperial Stout on, you hopefully will be able to get a 16 ounce can of this. Jenna, we're going to shotgun them in the parking lot of Lincoln. Hell yeah. A lot of people ask us about cellaring beer. We've talked about it in the past. If you want to just experiment with what oxidative aging does to an Imperial Stout over years, this is a perfect beer to conduct that experiment with. 10.99 a four pack is not going to break the bank. Buy one each year for the next five years and then do a five year vertical. It's a lot of fun and very enlightening experience. In the spirit of that, as I'm enjoying this fresh one off the shelf, I have also opened a bottle from 2018. Why are we doing this on Zoom? I will give you some of the tasting notes here. Eight is pushing it. I would say that in general, five years is where you're going to start to notice the peak. We're right about at, and we're in a good place at this many years. It's softer, the hops start to fall out. This was packaged on January 30th, 2018. It has just turned four years old. The hop character in this beer is pretty pronounced. Again, extremely different from your typical Imperial stout these days. This is the opposite end of the spectrum from pastry stouts. It's more dark chocolate, molasses, leather, tobacco, dark fruit, is definitely not like a sugar and cookies type of stout. After this has had a chance to mellow for four years, it's starting to pick up some of these sherryd wine characteristics. So there's much more of a nuttiness. There's a fruitier character that's coming out. The citrus forward element of the hops in this is fallen out to the point where it's morphed into a raisiny date, more of a dark fruit flavor. Delicious in different ways. Definitely wouldn't even necessarily say one is better than the other one. They're very different. But again, in that four years, the beer has changed quite a bit. So this can be a really fun experiment to do just to see what kind of results you can get. And it has in no way shows any kind of negative, like there's no soy saucy, there's no cardboard. It's aged gracefully like you would want it to. Those dark dried fruits are pretty classic in an aged Imperial stout. So that's exactly what you want. And I would also point out that this is no slouch when it comes to IBUs. I mean, it's hidden very well in the young version, even true to the style. Yeah. Even so, with age, they definitely kind of melt into the malt quality, right? No, great point. I mean, at 75 IBUs, a typical Imperial stout today would be things that people are putting all these adjuncts in. There's no way they would get even close to that. No. And that's what makes us more of a balanced beer. Again, if you're familiar with big stouts, like high ABV stouts, and you felt like, oh, they're not really for me, they're too sweet, they're too rich. This beer has got so much going on, and it is rich and has a full mouth feel, but it is not decadent. It is not syrupy, it's not sweet, it's not overly, it's a very different type of rich. Totally agree. The mouth feel, the level of sweetness, all of those things are very moderated. It's an incredibly well-balanced beer. Time has never been more appropriate to... And again, I'm not telling you to give up on your favorite local beers, the hot new trends. Absolutely keep drinking those, but try some of these beers as well. And it's forever important because there is fatigue with some of the new styles, and some of these local people are starting to brew classic styles, and despite their good intentions, some of them are not too great. So, I want people, if they're gonna taste a classic West Coast IPA, they're gonna taste a Porter, to try one that is brewed immaculately, like something that is really something to be proud of. So, it's not time to give up on this. Yes, you can go into a store and buy these, but just because, you know, bars are still struggling and not as many people are going to bars, there's still every bit as much reason to help support well-made, amazing beer from some of the craft veterans in this country, so, and other countries. So, thanks for listening to us and for me ramble on about something which clearly I'm really passionate about. Like Greg said, please follow the Beer Buzz and join me as I walk through a lot of these beers that are really special to me. Nowhere else will you find a collection of six beers that meet at the intersection of a love of lawn care, white New Balances, and t-shirts tucked into jean shorts, then Flagship February. Beards compensating for lack of jawline. Ah, you bastards. Come on hipsters, you can drink these too. Do not ruin Roger's life, do not ruin my life. Save these breweries, for God's sake. I mean, isn't this really the most hipster going back to like the old school? Exactly. Come on. Exactly. You get a soccer, what are those things? A soccer scarf with old Rasputin on it. What could give you more cred than that? That is a perfect reminder. These beers were like counterculture back in the day. Even though a lot of older people like them now, I hope we gave you a lot of reasons to believe in these other than the guy from Sam Smith's just saying, hey, it's good enough for your dad, why isn't it good enough for you? Love it. So, yeah, those were dad beers. We love them. You should too. They're not all for lawn mowing, but you can enjoy them after you mow the lawn. While lamenting the new grass stains on those crispy white new balances. Roger's writing about them, putting them on sale in the month of February. They're great beers. They're overlooked. You should do yourself a favor as a beer drinker and check them out. So if you like old man beers like us, do us a favor. Leave us a review on the podcast platform of your choice. Until next week, I'm Pat. I'm Greg. I'm Chris. I'm Jenna. And I'm Roger. Keep tasting. Ah, you bastards.