Super tight raspberry, a little bit of meat, roasted meat. Craig, you don't know what meat tastes like? What the hell is a tight raspberry? Tightly wound, maybe? Tightly wound. It's rich and fully ripe, but it's not preserves, it's not syrup. Okay. Unctuous raspberry. What's the ABV on this? It smells kind of boozy. It's warm in here. That's why. And also it's like so herbal and savory that maybe it seems hot. Man, I just like the minerality on this thing, you know? You really do get that that wet stone kind of dirty, violet, blackberry cassis. There's just so much going on. Yeah, it does have this herbal peppery thing though. Kind of, it's distracting me from the other flavors. It's rich and stony. I like your word sanguine. This is that quality here. I think we're going to find in these four examples, we're going to get a lot of that sort of meaty kind of bloody, but more reserved. But things I'm hearing you guys say about this wine, fruit, earth, right? Earthy qualities, meaty characteristics, savory characteristics, floral characteristics. So when we're talking about complexity in wine, we're talking about this kind of stuff right here. It's just the wine burrito here. There it is. It's got everything. Yeah, but not from Taco Bell. This is a 100% Syrah from the Appalachian Cote Rotie, means roasted slope in the Northern Rhone. This is a 2014. And this is from Domaine Jamet. And in wine circles is kind of known as one of the best producers in the Cote Rotie Appalachian. So Kristen, we're gonna have a lot of fun because we're talking about Syrah in the Northern Rhone. Ladies and gentlemen, thanks for listening to another episode of Barrel to Bottle, The Binny's Podcast. I'm Greg Versch, I do communications at Binny's in the room with me today. Pat Brophy, Director of Spirit Sales. I'm Kristen Ellis, Wine Education at Binny's. Hey, I'm Roger Adamson, Doom Beer Marketing and Education. And joined again in the studio today. I'm Barb Steadman, Assistant Director of Wine Sales. And Rhone Enthusiast? For sure, Northern Rhone in particular. Yep, thanks for inviting me. It's one of the most visited regions in France, just because people move up and down that 500 or so mile long, you know, treach of Rhone River. It's one of the few very well traversed rivers in France still. So you can see those very famous, very steep hillsides where the Syrah grows. And it'll get you down to the Mediterranean eventually, right? Yeah. Well, so the Rhone River in itself, I think, is an amazing piece of water. So it starts its life way up in the Alps in Switzerland. It spills into Lake Geneva. Then from Lake Geneva, it drops 6,000 feet in 500 miles before it spills out into the Mediterranean Sea. So it hooked up the Salon River, which goes through the region of Burgundy in Lyon, and then it flows down to the Mediterranean. So you can see that a fast-moving river like that would carve steep slopes in a valley? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And the Romans actually carved those steep slopes. So the Northern Rhone, as far as a region, I mean, we go all the way back, very typical in European history to go back to the Greeks. But in terms of the importance of this region, it really was the ancient Romans landed there about 120 BC. And they noticed that they could grow quality wine right along the river banks. And they began to basically to prevent erosion, to cut in these terraces into the steep hillsides. And we still enjoy those terraces today. We're still using a lot of those same terraces to grow Syrah. Dude, like, that's awesome. So history, I mean, like, incredible history. Yes. And the history of Syrah, otherwise known as Shiraz or Shiraz, as some people say. Shirazmetez. Dude, can we call the podcast that? Shirazmetez. I think that ship sailed like a year ago. Thank you. So they were like, you know, Shiraz from here and there thought maybe it was a Persian grape, you know, after the city of Shiraz, which is in, I think, modern day Iraq now, but it's not, it's native to the Rhone, as well as Viognier and its grandfather, I believe, is Pinot Noir. So it just kind of mutated and was crossed with the other vinifera varieties, but it is native to the Northern Rhone region. Here we are with Jean Paul Jamet, right, from Cote Rotie. This is $125 and this is the kind of epicenter of all things, Shiraz. It's like the number one expression. It's not, it's a baby. I mean, it's got so much life to it that I think that you're kind of missing a lot. Drinking Young Cote Rotie is not really that fun. Yeah, that's something. You were thinking about decanting these. I did. I decanted these for two hours. Yeah. Wow. And it's still very tight. It's not giving a lot. Like this thing needs another 10 years in the bottle, I would say. It's tremendous, though. What happens after 10 years about all that minerality and the iron and the floral and the fruit? What's going to happen long term? The minerality will stay. The floral will go from fresh flowers to more dried. And the fruit will sort of drop away. And Syrah gains leathery, meaty aromas with age. So you're going to get even more of that leather component. Even stinkier for you, Pat. No, I like leather. It's one of my favorite flavors. Leather bound books? Yeah. No, I get a lot of leather in certain whiskies and stuff, so. This wine is 100% Syrah. So Syrah really kind of is known in two different styles. So you can see Syrah or something or nothing or a place name or you can see Syrah. Syrah kind of is supposed to mean this kind of style, an old world style, harkening back to the Northern Rhone. And this is kind of one of the, I guess I would say, prototypes, benchmark styles of Syrah from the Northern Rhone. I want to talk about the Syrah grape a little bit, just about the grape itself before we jump into the wines actually. So as you can see by this wine, but Syrah will produce very deeply pigmented, very tannic wines that are relatively high in acid. So these are just on par Syrahs from the Northern Rhone in terms of ageability with Burgundy and with Bordeaux. So like I said, the names are tossed out just like those high end wines from those more famous regions. So the raspberry, blackcurrant, cherry, white pepper, violet, meaty, bloody, it kind of can really only come from this area of Northern Rhone. You don't get so much of this bloody and earthy quality in other places as far as my experience is concerned. So like a Syrah from Washington State isn't going to have that same kind of quality. Not as much. Yeah. I find the terroir there, it's kind of more of that inky black fruit forward. And they tend to be to have a little bit more overt oak here in the Northern Rhone. They do use oak, but generally it's used oak. So no new oak aromas or first and second use at best. They may be heading that way though. I mean, you're talking about the vines in Washington being so much younger than generally the vines in the Northern Rhone. But I think when the book is written, Syrah is really going to be the biggest player there in Washington. Yeah, in the last five years, it's really turned a corner. Really good stuff coming out of Washington state, that's for sure. Yeah, different style. So its ability to age makes it so sought after. I think that Syrah doesn't sell very well. But like around wine circles, I mean, it's delicious. Everybody loves it. You know what I mean? It's like a wine nerd's wine. I think so. And that it's even when it's been in its trendiest throughout the world, it's even then been kind of a wine nerd's wine. Yep, for sure. So it's relatively late budding, which is good because in the Northern Rhone, especially, there is a continental climate, which means there's a big frost risk. And so the fact that it buds late means that we can have good ripened fruit, you know, at the proper time during the growing season. Other special features of the Northern Rhone, of course, it's going to be those steep hillsides, you guys, where the Syrah variety grows. The Mistral Wind. Have you seen those t-shirts where it says, I love the Mistral Wind? No one's seen that t-shirt. That's a made up t-shirt. They're actually t-shirts that I've seen people at Rhone Tastings wearing them. It says, I love, I was like, huh. Again, it's a wine nerd's wine. So the Mistral Wind is this. That's how you find a spouse. Not someone that has that t-shirt on. For me? Game over. I was going to say, I'm like, no. If you find someone that actually knows what that is, or even better is wearing one as well. Match made. Match made. So the Mistral Wind is this wind that is born in the North Sea. It's this cold set of air that's pulled down by the hot landmass of the Mediterranean basin, and then of course the Mediterranean Sea. So this wind blows down the Rhone River at like 60 miles an hour. So in the Southern Rhone, it causes the vines to actually bend southward, and they grow kind of bent over. But in the Northern Rhone, they're sort of saved by those steep terraces, so they don't have that much of an issue. But it keeps the air clean, keeps the clouds away, keeps the sun growing, or keeps the sun ripening these grapes for proper ripening, because Syrah of course needs lots of heat and lots of sun to ripen properly. So it's just a perfect little microclimate for Syrah. So it buds late, is harvest around the same time as other places in France, or does it harvest later too? No, it's relatively early ripening actually. So it's really pretty good for that frost that might bookend a continental season, or a continental climate rather. Yeah. All right. Is this big minerality just from the soil, or is it perceived minerality from other factors? Yeah, I caution you to make a correlation between minerality and wine and soil. It's generally from higher acid wines that grow in cooler climates. It's from sulfurous compounds due to fermentation and other things like that. There is no direct link between the soil type and smelling minerality in wine. All right, so the soils there, guys, are important. Lots of granite. Granite soils. Folks out there studying wine means deep, dense, powerful, age-worthy wines. That's what we're after. So if they're so age-worthy, and to, I guess, Greg's point and yours, why do people buy so much Cabernet and so much Bordeaux for their cellars and less of these great cellar-worthy, intense Syrah? I don't know. I think people are just more comfortable with Cabernet. It's kind of like what everybody grew up on drinking California wine, then they graduate to Bordeaux, you know, and that's just what people buy. I honestly think that. And I think that there's just so much more Bordeaux out there. Where are these price comparable to Bordeaux or NABACAB? In the higher end, they're right up there. Yeah, between $50 and $150 a bottle. And your hyper-collectible ones can be $600 or $700? $400 or $500. But Bordeaux then far exceeds it, because some of those really, really high super first growths can come about $1,000 a bottle on release. And good vintages. But then also there's values, just like anywhere else, that you can get a really great fun bottle, maybe more of the Southern Rhone, for like $12. And then for the Northern Rhone, for like $15 or $30. You're making, well, so the Northern Rhone has all those steep terraces, so you cannot mechanize anything, right? It's so difficult to just even grow vines there, to take care of your vineyards, to harvest them. And plus, Syrah can be a little bit difficult in the winery. It reduces very easily. So reductive wine means it doesn't take oxygen on very easily, so it can kind of smell stinky and tired and just not very bright and fresh. A feeling and smell I'm familiar with. In the Southern Rhone, it's relatively flat land, right? There are mountains, but compared to the Northern Rhone, so they can grow much easily there, much more easily there than they can in the Northern Rhone. It's just expensive, the cost to pay to play. It's backbreaking work, man, to harvest. That's why Mosel Rieslings are so expensive, because you have to carry grapes on your back up a 60-degree gradients terrace to the winery that sucks. On gravel. On gravel. It's just clinging to the side of the hill. Then after harvest, go down and collect all the rocks that fell down during the year and bring them back up to the top. So as far as traditional versus modern, these guys use what are called demis or demimuid. So it's good to know for the Northern Rhone that they use traditionally a 600 liter old oak barrel for maturation. That's a big butt. That's a big ass butt. So it's called the demi. So when you go to the Northern Rhone, there are eight Appalachians in the Northern Rhone. We started in the furthest north of the Northern Rhone in the Cote Rotie, moving on down, and we are gonna go on the left bank to Hermitage. So Hermitage is supposed to be kind of the number one after Cote Rotie in terms of quality Appalachians. This is the Barruol Lynch, so it's the Louis Barrow family. What's the vintage on this one, Greg? 2016. Cool. So the word Hermitage, what does it kind of remind you of? A place where hermits live. Exactly. So it got its name from some dude who camped up on the hill in the medieval times for like 30 years and never left. So he was like the hermit of the hill. So now it's one of the most expensive wines in the world. Go figure, right? So this is from one Ludi called La Periel, basically just a dialect for stones of the area. 2016. Yeah, I gotta taste it. It's so ripe, but it's not just ripe, it's constrained ripeness. It's so polished. Oh man, this is violet and pretty and blackberry and raspberry and little jammy. Blueberry extract. Yeah, I got lots of blueberry and so much flowers. Yeah, yeah. Hand harvested, some macerations for about three weeks, fermentations in cement and aged in no new oak for about one to two years, the barrels are. It's so interesting. They age for 15 months, sorry. It's interesting in succession that there's just so much freshness of everyone else getting that, but it has a lot of the same structure in tannin, but it's just so much more lift on the finish, and it feels more youthful and light on its feet. I love that. Hey, non-wine guys who were complaining about the horsiness and funkiness of the last one, is this not like a good call and response for that? It's so polished, and it's not like commercially polished. It's just sleek. Yeah, no, this wine both smells and tastes great. Good descriptors. Thanks, non-wine guy. Yeah, no problem. I get where you're saying it's a little tight, though it seems like it needs time to soften up a bit. Am I wrong in that? I think that the palate feels relatively soft. I think the tannins are quite moderate and very, very silky. I think we've got a good amount of acidity here that's offering the structure. I think that that's at the forefront. But it's relatively balanced because what I'm finding the balance is, is the concentration of flavor and the acidity. That's kind of what's playing off of itself to me right now. And it has a pillowy plushness. And if it was from California, you would assume that it was from big globs of oak, but it's not. And it's from the grapes themselves. Hashtag pillowy plushness. I like the berry character to this. It's very pronounced. I love this wine. I don't even really want, I know we have to move on, but I kind of don't want to. Yeah, it's very enjoyable. Good pick. You guys, they've been making wine down in the Rhone for 16 generations. And they have a villa that's in Gigandas that was used by the ancient Romans. And in their wine cellar, they have ancient Roman amphorae and different machines that they used to make wine embedded in the walls of their cellar. Like that's my dream. So this wine smells terrific. You like this one? Oh yeah. So another 100% Syrah. It's so rich. Hermitage is a tiny appalachian. So think about the Northern Rhone. The Rhone together, North and South, they do about 66 million gallons of wine a year, give or take, at least they did that a couple years ago. And the Northern Rhone does 4% of that. So the Southern Rhone, think of that as more of the quantity driven area of the Rhone. The Northern Rhone is really just about quality and super tiny production. What was the wine again? This is Hermitage La Periel by Barruol Lynch. How much would this cost on a shelf? This one is, hold on, I have the price. Hold on. I say $60. $75.99. So here's a place you guys can experience Rhone and experience maybe some of the terroir of the Hermitage Hill, basically just one tiny little appellation, is by buying Groves Hermitage. So you see this hyphenated C-R-O-Z-E-S, it's kind of like the baby Hermitage, so to speak. And then you just kind of really have to search for reputable producers. And I chose the JL. Chave Selection, it's the Negosiant line from Chave. And Groves Hermitage, are you laughing at me? Because I sound like a distributor rep. Yeah, I'm laughing at this label. Is this connotating the bumwine aspect? It's like this fighting bum on there. Isn't that the guy who schlepping the grapes up the hill? That's probably the hermit. It's the hermit. You're right, Roger, it's a ridiculous picture. It's this guy. It was a slow one. It's the hermit. Guess how much this wine is? $200. Come on. Well, you heard what I said. No, I would guess this wine would be $60. So it's $23.99. Whoa. Yeah. So how do you feel about this wine? Do you think it's right up there? The herbaceousness of the first one is back, I think. That's very smoky. This is a little more just nosing it in line with the first one we tasted. Flavor-wise, too. The herbaceousness is kind of woodsy quality to it. I think it's also easier, more upfront, riper, more plush fruit, which is it's just like a little easier, more approachable wine in comparison. I think it's leaner. I don't think it has the depth and the weight of the first two wines. I'm going to go to the limb and say it's less ripe than Hermitage. I think that the fruit's a little bit less reserved. I think this might come from maybe some of their younger vines. I'm not quite sure with this one here. Tannins are more pronounced. Yeah, it's definitely harder. Yeah. So 500 years these guys have been making wine in this area. So I mean, these are the producers that made the Northern Rhone. So I think but it's nothing to scoff at. For 25 bucks, this is a hell of a wine. Absolutely. Sorry, anything we're going to get. We can't even buy Napa wine for 25 bucks anymore, dude. We've already established that this is a high quality region and it costs a lot to make money there. So it's going to cost a lot to buy. So the reason we showed this Croze Hermitage was you can kind of be introduced to the region. You can try the style. You can understand a little bit of that meaty, the savory, the fruity and the structure of Syrah and like why it's a wine geek's favorite wine without having to just jump in to 80 bucks right away. So Croze Hermitage, the reason that they can drive the cost down, it's flatter. That's a flatter part of around the Hermitage Hill. So easier to of course grow wine there. And it's also the largest appellation of production in the Northern Rhone. So they just make the most. And better for some situations like dinner parties where you need two or three wines and you want something that reflects the terroir but you don't have $100 to spend per bottle, right? Yeah, or you buy Hermitage for the dinner party and then, or grows Hermitage for the table and you put this Hermitage underneath your chair by you and your best friend. This is the Domaine Vincent Paris Cornas, 2016. So one thing that I didn't note earlier is you can co-ferment or blend white wine grapes in with the Syrah in these appellations. So Cote Rotie, for example, they, it's very common that they co-plant, they co-ferment or blend Viognier, up to 20% Viognier. In terms of Hermitage, it's up to 15% Marsan and Rusan. So those are the three white grapes that are permissible in the Northern Rhone. But in Cornas, which is the furthest south of the Rhone Appalachians, it is only 100% Syrah allowed in the blend altogether, so no white varieties. Wasn't it super cute when Australian producers started copying that same style and nobody gave a s***? Yes. Well, they're still doing it, it's very cute. Yolumba has one, their Syrah or Syrah's Viognier is fantastic. It's good. Yeah. The Arnberg still does it. It's so good, but nobody buys it. It's not expensive at all. No. What's the logic to that, Krista, Cofermont, Viognier? I think the reason that they started to do that was Viognier stabilized the color because Syrah is so reductive and it doesn't take the oxygen. I think it can mess with the color and also the aromas. It gives it aromatic lift. Viognier is a very aromatic grape, and so gives it even more of that floral punch that I think that they really wanted and helped to moderate some of the acidity in Syrah. Pat? So by co-ferment, these grapes are pressed together and fermented together? Fermented before they're pressed, yeah. You ferment and then press red wine. Okay. Yep. Yeah, not made into wine and then blended together, but actually made into wine together. Yep, fermented at the same time. Okay. So they're pulling from the skins from within the grape. Some producers, traditionally it was whole cluster fermentation. There's a few reasons to do this. You can add tannin. Some winemakers say that it actually helps to pull tannin from the skins to have some of the tannin from the stems present. That's just how they feel. They say that it adds complexity, the herbaceous character, a black tea component helps with color stabilization with the stems. Others say, well, it's hard to judge sometimes, depends on the person managing the vineyards, if the stem ripening is matched up with the berry ripening. The berries could be ready to rock, but then you put the stems in and you're going to pull green, pyrazenic kind of smells and aromas from the stems. There's two camps. Some of these wines, some like Jermet, for example, some of the wines they do are whole cluster, and Hermitage, for example, this particular bottle we tried has all been de-stemmed. So there's kind of a different camp with stem inclusion. And so I think when it comes to co-fermentation, it's just kind of the same thing. It's what do you want to come out of this grape? What do you want to come out of that? What's the percentage of the blend? Guy Gall, you guys probably know Guy Gall. They're probably one of the more famous producers in the Rhone. They famously have normally a 5% to 7% Viognier in their Cote Roties, but Jamet just does 100% Syrah. Something that audio doesn't do justice here is how beautiful this wine is. That is really pretty. It has this really neat fuchsia violet color that's kind of mesmerizing. I don't know. I got to say, I can't get over it, but it smells like purple. It does smell like purple. It smells just like purple. Like purple drink? No, I'm just overwhelmed. If I wrote a tasting note, that's all I would be able to write the first three sentences. It's all purple and it's gorgeous, floral. It's super rich. Did I already say that on a different wine? I'm running out of descriptors here. This is very, very rich. And it's the warmest. For the South, it's the warmest Appalachian. So generally, these wines can be seen as the fullest, kind of the most lush, fruity, round, velvety examples, less structured than its cousins that come from up the river. You're getting into notes of preserves. Yep. This has a violet character, which makes sense. The color, it reminds me of creme de violette a little bit. This is a tasty wine. This is very nice. I think it has that really lush, ripe fruit you're talking about, but this is only 13 percent. So it's not overripe fruit. It's just very, very expressive. Yep. $35.99. I think so. You can charge 60 bucks for this in some places. See what it is again? Domaine Vincent Paris Cornas, 2016. I got to say too, we tried a back vintage of this. Maybe a year ago, Chris, I want to say it was like 2010, and it wasn't the granite 30. It was one of their maybe single vineyard offerings, but by this producer, and it was one of the best wines I had all of last year. So Cornas also ages really well, right? Absolutely. All these wines age pretty well. Yeah. We're talking 10, 15, 20 years right up there at Burgundy and Bordeaux. I love these wines. It's hard not to. These are great BYO wines to really impress your guests or your dinner partners. Your Bordeaux collecting friends. Right. I mean, because people forget. They forget about these wines and they're gorgeous. This was really eye-opening for me because I always kind of just, I thought Rhone was Rhone and I thought it was all like GSM, like Fruit Forward, ripe fruity stuff. And I never really thought about it being these big, heavy hitters that were seller-worthy and that kind of stuff. I mean, I'm exposing myself as the wine new by am now, but that's fine. But I didn't realize that there was this kind of like really cool little nerd part of it tucked away up north there. Yeah. I mean, they make so little wine, such small production, the families, a lot of them have such long histories making wine there. That just, you know, somebody like you would say, why the hell are you doing this? And they're like, this is what we've been doing for 16 generations. So, yeah, it's its own kind of microcosm in the wine world, because there's about a 30 mile or so difference between the North and Southern Rhone, and like just the topography, the climate, everything is completely different. Yeah. And for me, it's actually interesting to hear you say that because for me, this has been eye opening for the opposite reason that when I think of Northern Rhone as somebody that knows French wines a little bit better, I think of really harsh, aggressive tannin, very gamey, close down, close down, shut down. Yeah. And so today for me, they've been so fruit forward and accessible and delicious and approachable and lovely acidity that I'm just absolutely overwhelmed with how much I love these wines. Yeah. These wines drink, you're right. You're absolutely right. They drink great straight out of the gate. They're just like ready to roll immediately. But then we'll just, you know, evolve and get better before, you know, for another 15 years, you could probably hold on to these things. Oh, Roger, do you want to give away some money? Sure. All right, Q&A time. That brings us to the Q&A portion of Barrel to Bottle. The same every episode. I'm taking it, I'm taking it. All right, Roger, so we're gonna start our Q&A portion of, that brings us to the Q&A portion of Barrel to Bottle. You can reach out to us at email, comments at binnys.com, or hit us up on social, Twitter, Insta, or Facebook, whatever. At Binny's Bev. At Binny's Bev. Here's what we're gonna do, Kristen, we're gonna take three questions. And all three of them are gonna get $20 Binny's gift cards. Cool. All right. $60 day. It's a good day. Question number one comes from at AndreyKM00. Alternately, Andrikamoo. Question is? I'm just, yeah, okay. Smiley face emoji. Give them 20 bucks. We're gonna give them 20 bucks. Boy, we have lowered our standards. You know what? I want people to know that we are actually taking their questions and we are giving away gift cards. So AndreyKM00, thank you for your question. We have no answer to that because it's not actually a question. I'm smiling. We have a $20 Binny's gift card for you. I think the answer is the double crying laughing emoji. Thumbs up emoji. Thumbs up emoji. We're giving this guy a gift card. This is the most millennial thing I've ever seen in my entire life. Nope, this is the most millennial thing you've ever seen in your entire life. Question number two comes from at official Matt Brown fan club. Not sure who Matt Brown is, but he has an official fan club. The question is fart. Did you hear that, Roger? Well, it was probably supposed to be funny. I mean, it's a fair attempt. We'll give you 20 bucks. Just leave us alone. 20 bucks to at official Matt Brown fan club? Yeah. What's the official emoji answer? eggplant, eggplant, peach. No, it's obviously the wind, the fart, and then the poo. I mean, come on. Gross. All right. Do not give a guy a gift card for writing fart. He wrote fart. And our real question this week comes via email from Ed Rutledge. Ed, thanks for writing in. Your question goes, Generally, it seems that wine from a particular region will pair well with the food from that region at the risk of asking a chicken or egg question, and assuming that this was not just an incredible global coincidence. Did food evolve to accommodate the local wine, or did wine adapt to accommodate the local food? I don't even know if this subject is touched on in Hugh Johnson's The Story of Wine, which basically goes back to like ancient Georgia till now. I don't know that that is even like, who knows? I think it's just it is chicken and egg. I mean, nobody touches on it, I think, because there is no definitive. Well, I think people were eating probably in the caves, right? Before we had vines and we had wine to drink with. Yeah, people were eating food before they were drinking alcohol. That's not true. Beer predated bread, it has to have. But it didn't predate eating, though. Like eating sustenance predated beer. No, like we ate before we drank fermented beverages, for sure. Yes, yes. But we didn't make the fermented beverages to go with what we were eating. No, I think this is a question about when did we start documenting food and... Ancient Greece... . alcohol culture. Yeah, that's going to be back then. So to my point, going to that book which is like the one book about the entire history of wine, I don't remember that being like a point that carried through. So I don't really know. But my default answer is ancient Greece, but then really medieval times. And okay, so the question is talking about locality. And one of the things we know is that wine is just one of the foodstuff products in Europe that has regional designations like cheese goes back to when? 13th century. 13th century. Yeah. So that was regionally recognized and protected by law before wine ever came in. But at the same time, you're talking about a wine style that, talking about wine grapes that were cultivated in an area because they did well in that area, alongside the foods that did well in that area. So you go to Chianti or Tuscany and you're on a hill. And there's grain on one side and there's grapes on the other side, because that side gets more sun exposure. And they literally make pasta with the grain grown at the foot of the hill and pair it with the wine from the hill. Yeah. You know, in Armagnac, they make highly acidic white table wines and they eat a ton of foie gras. And those are a great pairing. So maybe it's not so much chicken in the egg thing, and it's just that that's how people work and they create things in a locality with what they have to work with. And it went back to a time where, you know, we didn't have, it wasn't the transform of age, we didn't have transportation, they didn't have science, and so they just sort of stayed where they were and things evolved and developed that way. So, yeah. Thanks, Ed, for the question that we have a $20 Binny's gift card for you and you other two smiley face fart, why not? No, they're not getting them. I'll break your goddamn legs if you give them to them. Leave all this. Oh, my God. This is great. I'm so happy I came to work today. Get off of Roger's podcast lawn. Kristen, thanks for bringing the Syrah. Hey, man. Thanks for tasting the Syrah. And Barb, thanks for sitting through this one with us. Thanks for having me. Really glad to have you on. Yeah. Thanks for listening to another episode of Barrel to Bottle, The Binny's Podcast. We'll be back soon. Until next time, I'm Greg. I'm Kristen. I was Barb. I'm Roger. I'm Pat. Keep tasting.