You're listening to Barrel to Bottle, The Binny's Podcast. I'm Roger, and joined by some favorite hosts today. I have Kristen Ellis. Hi there. And Greg Versch. Hey. Greg Versch, you're not German. No, actually, I says to my mom, I says, where, she does Ancestry, right? So I says to her, I says, where in Germany are we from? And she's like, the Black Forest. And I looked it up, and it's the southwest part of Germany that borders France, which puts us pretty darn close to what we're going to talk about today. I'm very excited that we're doing this because I have Ancestry in Alsace. Do you? Really? I don't know much about it, but it was always, because of the mystique, it was always mentioned. Like I'm a million different things, but it was kind of sprinkled in there like, oh, and then there's that too. Yeah. A little bit of French debonair among the rest of the like, Chicago, Polish, mutt. Polish, Scottish, Italian. How are they with directions? I wonder. Pretty good. So, ladies and gentlemen, if you heard Roger say today on Barrel to Bottle, we're talking about Alsace. So Alsatian wines, the white wines that just sort of have captivated me for quality, for expression. So let's back it up. Alsace. It's in Northeast France. It bucks right up next to Germany. It's the falls region of Germany. It is a continuation Northeast of Alsace. And it is an amazing region for wine because for a couple of reasons. Number one, of its northerly latitude, it gets extremely long days during the growing season, which means lots of sunlight hours, but it's considered a cool climate. So it's got relatively cool temperatures. So when you get slow, even ripening, you get complexity in wine, right? And if you look at some of these bottles, they're showstoppers. So they're considered that the bottle style is called a flute. So let's go back in time to about the 16th century. And we're in the Renaissance, right? So as it ran around concurrently, Michelangelo was running around in boots that grew into his feet, painting the Sistine Chapel in Alsace. Meanwhile, in northern France, they're celebrating a Renaissance of their own. And this was when Alsatian wines were at their heyday. They were traded for astronomical prices. They were sought after by nobility. Alsace was at the top of their game. But from that time until the end of World War II, Alsace as a region changed hands between the French and the Germans six times. People say it's French, but we're talking about cream colored houses with the little brown trim and the chocolates. And it's really a Germanic region. So looking at those bottles, you can see there's one similarity off the bat that they both use those flutes. Another for me is the varietal labeling. So if you look at Alsacean wine, you'll see the grape variety is on the label. Roger, if you put the variety on the label of wine from Alsace, how much of that wine should be that variety? Totally guessing here. In 75? Close. A hundred. Close. Close. Like every shade of wine. One hundred. So in the European Union, right, they have kind of a broad umbrella of laws that govern wines from a certain place or that have a geographical indication. And if you put the variety on that label, you must have a mandatory minimum of 85 percent. So your lovely Madeira, that's a Cercelle, must be 85 percent minimum by law according to the European Union. However, in Alsace, they can make their own laws. So if you have a tighter, more stringent geographical indication, oftentimes they can govern themselves. So in Alsace, we're looking at pure varietal expressions of that grape. How many different varieties are we talking about here? Well, so that's interesting. We've got four noble varieties, which are Riesling, Pinot Gris, Gewurztraminer, and muscat. But from there, we do offer quite a bit more Pinot Blanc. Sylvanner is definitely one, muscat Altenel is another, Pinot Noir is there as well. So you could have field blends, but really we're talking a lot of those famous French white varieties. And then another kind of thing that sets Alsace apart is Riesling. You don't grow Riesling in other places in France. It is now allowed under law in the Langdoc in roussillon, in that Paydoc, this big IGP area in the south of France, where they make a lot of field blends and whatnot. You can grow Riesling there, but every other region in France, it's only in Alsace. So it's a dry Riesling. So if you're sick of sweet versions from Germany, if you go over to the Alsace section at Binny's and you pick out a Riesling, as long as it doesn't come from a Grand Cru vineyard, we'll talk about that in just a few minutes, what that means, you No sukelwasser? No sukelwasser. Okay. So let's talk about then the AOC rules of Alsace. We have 53 different AOCs in Alsace. One is just a regular Alsace AOC. That's any of your still wine production that does not come from a Grand Cru vineyard. We have Cremont d'Alsace. So it's a sparkling wine that's made in the champagne method. Once again, guys, great place to get value at Binny's is to, if you want to shop champagne, but it's Tuesday and you don't want to spend 50 bucks, then you can buy Cremont, which means it's made in the same method, great grapes, quality producer, and Varieties that they tend to do there, Riesling, Pinot Blanc. You can find a Cremont with Riesling and I actually like them. They're rare or they'll have a small percentage to add aromatic lift because Riesling is such a pronounced variety. But oftentimes we're going to find quite a bit of Pinot Noir, especially if it's a rosé from Alsace, it's 100% Pinot Noir, which is pretty cool. But yes, Pinot Blanc, Pinot Gris, you can put it all inside the Cremont. It's kind of like a catch-all. Lucy and Albrecht, there's a phenomenal rosé Cremont Alsace. Bauer's great as well. Love them. Yeah. Katz is good. Yeah, but I love Fizz, so it's hard to have me find a bottle that I don't find something good about. The next is Alsace Grand Cru. There are 51 Grand Cru vineyards, all with their own AOC, which means we've got 53 AOCs in Alsace. So they each have their own set of rules. I mean, some yes, some no, but yes, you're right. And there are some Grand Cru vineyards. Kaferkopf is one, Altenburg is another, and these are blends. Whereas the majority of these vineyards are just for model, varietal production. These are actually blends, one of Riesling and the other based on Gewurztraminer. And we've got one Grand Cru vineyard called Zotsenberg that allows for Silvanner. Have you guys had a Silvanner? Yeah, but only from Germany. From Franken in the Boxbittel, the round squat bottle. They literally designed those to be the shape of a goat testicle. Hello. Not even a joke. It's probably my favorite wine fact. Yeah. Like they were drunk as hell on Pilsner and said, let's do this with this Boxbittel. That's what I'm calling. It's this big flat bottle, but it just boop, you know, boop. So let's get to our first wine here, guys. I have in the glass. This producer, Marcel Dees, is known as the Ayatollah of Alsace. So, which is pretty awesome. Can somebody, can we do Mad Max for a second? We can. The Ayatollah of Rock n Roll. That was loud listeners, and I apologize. So yes, the Ayatollah of Alsace, Marcel Dees, he owns 27 hectares, about 200 different plots, and this guy is like Viva La Blend. He says, varietal wines are boring, and it does a disservice maybe to consumers because they don't understand the power of the blend. So this dude is fighting the industry normanol sauce, and he wants field blends. So he's going back to how kind of things were pre-Feloxera when France was kind of just planted to whatever, and these blends would have 5, 6, 10 different varieties, and he's doing that with his Hectorage, and he's making wines that are blends, so he's like done with the model varietal. Pretty tight. Here we have the Engelgarten. That's this? Doesn't sound French, does it? No, this is the Engelgarten. I love this wine. He basically says, okay, in the Grand Cru vineyards, they can only be made of the noble varieties. So once again, many different varieties allowed in Alsace, but those of Nobility, Gewurztraminer, Pinot Gris, Riesling and muscat. So you can only use those four in the Grand Cru vineyards unless you're in Zotsenberg and you can make Sylvanner with all the goat shaped testicle bottles that you'd like, right? That's goat testicle shaped bottles. Thank you. Goat shaped testicles. Goat testicle shaped. Anyway. Gewurztraminer, best grape name by the way. Don't you think? Gewurztraminer? Yeah. Gewurzt means spice. Traminer means little grape from Traminer. Little spice Traminer is what we're after. Really aromatic grape, low in acidity, super, super complex. I love Gewurzt, but there's really not too much Gewurzt in here. We're looking at Riesling, Pinot Gris, muscat, Pinot Noir in this field blend of coal-planted grapes, which are then fermented together. So there's no really blending for him too much. And he bottles them this way. And he's just about kind of realizing that grapes go better together, just like cooking. You don't cook with just one ingredient. So he's not going to make wine with just one variety. What's the ABV like on these styles that varies? They can be quite high because the grapes get uber right there because the growing season is so long. And you have the phenolics and the acidity. These white grapes have pretty high acidity on average, especially Riesling and Pinot Gris, and especially muscat. So they retain their acidity through a long growing season, all the while getting riper and riper. So you have these lovely high alcohol, relatively high alcohol whites. They can be up into the 13 to 14% sometimes. And they're balanced by that refreshing high acidity with really concentrated flavors from that slow even ripening. So this has that low-me quality. I mean, even if there's not that much converse, it picks up the dried pineapple, graham cracker. I really like the aroma on this quite a bit. I think you get honeysuckle, a little bit of beeswax. I get the stone fruit. Absolutely. This reminds me of kind of like gooseberries and like underripe blueberries. Kind of like nice tartness to it. White peach, a little bit of elderflower. But on the palate, it's weighty, it's rich, but the acid is in good balance. Like, you know, you get that definitely that watering, but it's not too much. I'm not spitting all over this microphone here. And just unlike most of what you get from Germany, it's never heavy and sweet. Subtle, a little bit of ginger spice here. I think it's great. I love this wine. So this is, this is an intrepid winemaker who's going against the norm, going against tradition of these varietal wines and saying, let's celebrate what these, what these grapes can do together. And what we said before, what you said about 75 percent, I talked about the mandatory minimum. That's what it is in California. So when people go, I like California cabs, it's kind of unbeknownst to them that they like California cab, and it's often blended with other stuff because blends are delicious. We love blends. And so I just, I'm all about this guy. I think he's great. delicious. You like it? I do. I know. With sushi Mike at Tanoshi. What's the price point like on this? This guy's 40 bucks. So it's on the higher end of what I think people are willing to spend for white wines that aren't necessarily champagne or collectible, you know? Right. But I would put this up against any $40 California Chardonnay that people are drinking today. And you find the same complexity. So this is at the opposite end of Alsace. This is some of the most approachable, easygoing and affordable. So I wanted to ride the blend train for a little bit and just kind of dial it back on the price for your pocketbook for 12 bucks. This is 11.99 on the shelf. This is Famille Houguelle. This is their Gentile or gentle, you might read it on the label. And this goes back to an old Alsatian tradition of blending those noble varieties together. So, you know, it's not being maybe as has some would see Marcel Dies being a bit more combative or fighting, whatever. These guys are kind of just going along with tradition. They're not trying to include the Grand Cru Appalachians in their blends. And I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm just saying they're doing it without that kind of a fight. So when most Alsatian wines are bridal, we've got some great expressions when in blends, very, very friendly and approachable wine. How would you describe the aroma on this? because it's really nice and it's intriguing, but I can't necessarily pinpoint exactly how I want to describe it. For me, this is the lychee. This is a lot of pear, like fresh pear, some Bosque pear skins. I get that quite a bit. There's kind of like a racy kind of character to it that's like a wild, I don't know, it's kind of like a woodsy. There's like a sweeter anise candy. Well, this is this is minerality, folks. This is that whetstone kind of refreshing that's playing with the citrus fruit. And this comes from wines of low pH and cool climates. This is not kind of ridiculous, but this reminds me of like when it starts to rain. Yes, exactly. Yeah. And that's what that's what when we say we smell minerality in a wine, that's exactly what we mean. And I think it just adds a lovely component and it just kind of sits right under the fruit that just sort of lifts it up. It's almost like a savory quality on the finish. So this is Goverchaminer, Pinot Gris, muscat and Riesling. It's definitely got that high acidity. You can taste the Riesling. You're talking about all the stone fruit, but I still always pick up like a lemon peel aspect as well. You get any white pepper? Maybe there's a bit of a spice going on. I like that lychee, lychee kind of like rambutan. Yes. It's like that tropical but also kind of grape honeydew melon. What's a rambutan? Similar to the spiky looking ones. But when you crack them open, they look similar to a lychee. Eat them in the jungle book a lot? Remember that movie, the jungle book? So, this I think shows a lot of complexity and structure for, you said $12.99? This $11.99 on the shelf, yeah. This over delivers. I would put this head to head against any $12 white wine in Binny's. I think that people would find, you know, good aspects in maybe all $12 wines if they want to, but this one is just like, this kills. The fact that it followed a $40 wine and it's holding its own, it's really impressive. That's Alsace for you. I mean, this is your white wine hub. This is where it's at to get flavor, complexity, concentration, all those things that we look for. Nobody wants a thin, insipid, flavorless, watery, you know, adulterated wine. We've got organic, biodynamic coming out of the woodwork, and we've just got artisanal, family-run wineries up and down that entire region. So, Pinot Blanc is, for me, one of my unsung heroes in the wine world. I like this. Thank you, because I really love it. So, Riesling, like we said, the noble varieties, what's really popular from Alsace, I love Pinot Blanc. It is just where my heart is. A mutation from Pinot Noir, it's a little bit lower in acidity, a little bit fuller body than your typical Pinot Gris, Pinot Gris is generally higher in acidity with more kind of citrus aromas. We're kind of getting towards those riper melon, stone fruit with Pinot Blanc. But I mean, what do you guys think? The mouth feels totally different. Is that from less acidity? Well, how is it different for you? Creamier. Yeah, a lot of that comes from glycerol, get a lot of sugar in these grapes, they get really ripe. Okay. And they could, in the winery, it's some lees stirring. And these are oftentimes vinified in big fat old wood vats. So we're allowing oxygen to play in the mix. These aren't completely reductively made. They're not stainless steel. So oxygen is going to add a bit more of that weight of that creaminess to it, if you allow it to interfere with the fermentation. I feel it's also more subtle too. I mean, there's, it's very delicate. It's a more subdued grape, right? It is. Yes, it's not as aromatic, for sure. But man, isn't it just pleasurable? It's pure pleasure. Guess how much this costs? What, is that a Newport joke? I didn't even think of that. It was just funny the way you were like, it's pure pleasure. Like you said it all matter of fact. You don't have to use your brain. Don't argue with me. It's pure pleasure. You don't have to use your brain to like peanut butter. It doesn't throw off the aromatic complexity of covrism or the blends that we've had. But it's like, dude, this with like the wasabi on sushi or this with any Indian spice, it doesn't get in the way and it just holds the food. How much you think this bottle is on the shelf? I'm gonna go somewhere in between the two we've already tried. So around $30 perhaps. Okay. 17.99. So under 20. So it's that sweet spot. There's another producer. This is Trimbach. Another Pinot Blanc I like people to try is Zin Umbrecht. They're just, that's my favorite. We didn't have any today because I kind of have been selling it at the stores I met often. But nonetheless, Zin Umbrecht Pinot Blanc is just to die for. It's absolutely fantastic. This is a Chardonnay Drinker's Wine. Yeah. because it has all of those same kind of attributes as a Chablis would have. All the Burgundian complexity for under 20 bucks. And the robust weight and the breath and the body. What about some of the tropical character this would appeal to Sauvignon Blanc drinkers? Yeah. Absolutely. And the fact that it's a little bit lighter in body than Chardonnay, not much. It kind of more has that weight, but I think you could find some similarities there. So this is kind of an everybody's wine. No one's going to turn their nose at this. It's fantastic. I don't know if it's just me, because sometimes I have an aversion to similar everything that just kind of looks the same, but I've commented several times now on how impressive looking these bottles are. That would be fun to bring somewhere. It's gonna grab people's attention. Yeah, and it's not gonna cost you an arm or a leg to do it. These, from sort of the German standpoint, these bottle designs kind of in a way remind me of some of the old school Pilsner flutes. Yeah. That just are those big, soaring, super tall, the sharp angle. They're fun. They're fun to bring. I had to pour a Riesling today for y'all. So here it is. This is Domain Weinbach. So Weinbach as a brand began in 1898, so pretty old school, and now is run by the Fowler family. All ladies running the show at Weinbach. 100% biodynamic farming. They started in 1998, so really ahead of the game. They were totally converted in 2005 to biodynamic. And our wine director, Barbara Hermann, loves Weinbach. She loved it. And she's been around forever, so she's in the know. So I mean, Weinbach has an old school following of Francophiles or those that are really into good quality, kind of dry Rieslings from around the world. Weinbach's been at the helm of that for quite a bit. Tired of your German Riesling, smelling like glue and gasoline? None of that here, man. None of that here. Pure fruit, it's dry. People are like, I don't want German Rieslings because I'm tired of the sweet. If you're going to shop the Riesling from Alsace, if you're not going to buy the Grand Cru and the Grand Cru is expensive, you'll know it by the price. If you're spending 60 bucks, you're in the Grand Cru realm. But if you're here around, and this one's $23.99 on the shelf, unbelievable, you're killing it. And it's dry for sure. Really expressive. Riesling is an aromatic grape, great acidity. It's the little darling of sommeliers across the country, just because of how well it marries with all different kinds of food. I'll eat French fries with Riesling, popcorn, you know, you name it, pork sandwich. It just goes with everything. Barbecue wine, people love it. The acidity on this is awesome. The sweetness that then converts to a finishing, like it's almost reminds me of some like lambic acidity, where it's hitting the sides of your tongue, and it's lasting, and it has like a bright kind of, I get like an apricot tanginess kind of to it. There's a bit of an oiliness to this wine, that I really like a lot. Kind of coats the mouth a bit, and that comes from the fact that the grapes get so ripe, and with lots of extract, and through fermentation comes a bit of glycerol, and you might get a little bit more in some Alsace wines, and that lends itself to The German Rieslings tend to have more acidity, but it is balanced with the sweetness, or maybe I should say the sweetness is balanced with the acidity, but it does so it doesn't blow you out of the water, it comes across as balance, whereas here Yeah, I guess I was just also comparing it to the last wine. I guess it just, the other one was much more delicate, but I like this, the way it's very bright on the finish. This is a great example of a classic Alsace Riesling. So, this was our speed demon round. Before we quit, can we have another taste of the first one? Sure. because I don't want you to have that much at the sushi place. You knew I was going to take that with me. I honestly just want to come back to it and see how we appreciate it. I don't want to dump out the last one. I'll do it side by side. Hello. It really has this toasted cleanliness, like burnt sugar, or not burnt sugar, or toasted sugar, wafer, vanilla wafer quality, you know? I'm with you. There's a bit of a vanilla, not like vanilla in, but like a little bit of a vanilla kind of quality. Like waffle cone, you know? Yeah. You get that? I do. Yeah. That's pretty interesting. That's blends for you. If you notice how this is a little bit darker in color, white wines that come from very sunny regions. And once again, this is going to be one of the sunniest because of the elongated growing season. You're going to get these deeply colored wines because sun for flavor and heat for sugar. The more sun, a little bit darker. Doesn't mean that it's old. People sometimes will see these golden color of these white wines and think that they're old or oxidized. But from Alsace, just know that that can come from the sun in this particular region. Are the sparkling one versions all over the map as far as sweetness and acidity levels? The majority are dry with high acid, just like you'd like from a classic champagne style wine. And they offer like some richer fruit complexity than champagne sometimes. They're less focused on the acidity and more on the breath. Especially if they add that Riesling in there. Man, what a cool little layer that they put in. Even 5, 6, 7 percent really just gives, you can smell that Riesling quality. It's a very distinct smelling variety. And you get that refreshing acidity and just adds that aromatic lift. And it's like 16 bucks a bottle. Yeah. So compared to those last three, which are great, this is like world class. The finish on this, it just is, is even the finish forever is structured in a way that white wine often, you got to spend to get this kind of complexity. And this is cheap for this kind of complexity. Yeah. It's in the structure. It's in the feeling. I had a old, old professional once tell me he had a cold one day and he went to a burgundy tasting, and he could tell the good burgundies from the bad, even though he couldn't really taste anything, just on how it felt on his mouth. And the ones that really tore into the finish forever. And that's what this does. Yeah. It's just, wow. It's good. Marcel Diesman, blends for life. Love the blends. Thank you for that in-depth study of Alsacean wine. That brings us to the Q&A portion of the podcast. What do we have from our listeners today, Kristin? This question, you guys, this is a group effort here. We've got at Tara T3 on Instagram asked, the cheaper the wine, the worse the hangover? Let's just talk about what's in a cheap wine, because cheap wine is considered for me kind of faulty wine. So to hide those things and make them more palatable, you get a lot of sugar, right? So on average, not all the time, you can get sugar plus alcohol. Sugar plus alcohol minus water equals hangover. And so that's my stance on it. Here's what I'm going to say. The cheaper the wine, the less I'm going to drink of it, so my hangover is probably not that bad, unless I switch to whisky with those cherries, those sweet, sweet cherries. You love those Luxardo cherries, dude. Yeah, they're terrific. Yeah, they are. I have some at home too. Do you have some at home? You do. I know you do. Luxardo? They're a guilty pleasure every once in a while. The syrup in them is a great cocktail ingredient. It's kind of the only way I can justify the price. And also the cheaper the wine, it could be flawed. It just means it's commercial because they're making a ton of it and that's why it's inexpensive. And that means that it's fine, you know? There's a handful of flawed, cheap wines on the shelves at some places, but I think our buyers do a pretty good job of just bringing in like, okay, cheap wines, but it's just not inspiring. So I'm just not reaching for it. Can I say the obvious answer to this? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're probably drinking more wine if it's less expensive. You're right. Okay. So you buy less is more, more is less, right? So I think there's a whole host of reasons as to why, but I don't think that one can correlate a price tag as a direct reaction or a direct reason for your hangover. Oh, yeah. I don't think that's fair. I don't think it's fair to say because that producer made a $5 wine, you're more hungover the next day. There's a lot more that goes into it. One of the worst hangovers of my life, the night before, Turley and Screaming Eagle. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But there was also Limoncello. One of the worst hangovers of my life, Krug, Dom Ruwinar, I mean, dude. And she still made it in today, folks. Oh, man. Today's been tough. So thank you at Tara T3 on Instagram. You're not alone. So many people ask this question. There's no correlation between price and your hangover. Things that make you more hungover are you're dehydrated, too much alcohol and the sugar component really feed into that. What you've eaten, if you're a guy or a girl. Your age. Your age. Your weight. Yep. All those things. Sadly, it always boils down to overindulgence. That's what people don't want to admit, but... Well, there's Roger, the classic voice of reason. The smart guy that we bring along with us to make us look a little bit better week after week. This brings the conclusion to another episode of Barrel to Bottle, The Binny's Podcast. I'm Kristen. I'm Greg. I'm Roger. Keep tasting, Alsace remains. It's really incredible how you poured exactly the same level across those bottles. Thank you, Claire. I'm not a player, I just crush a little. I love that song, it's a guilty pleasure of mine.