Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of Barrel to Bottle, The Binny's Podcast. Super excited for today's cast. I'm your host, Kristin. As always, with me in the room is Greg. Hey, I'm Greg Versch. I do communications at Binny's. And Roger. Hey, Roger Adamson, beer marketing and education. Barb. Hey, I'm Barb. I work in wine sales. And a very special guest, Miss Barbara Widmer. Hi. Thank you for having me. Who are you? Well, I'm the winemaker of Toscom Wine Estate of brancaia, and wineries owned by my family. Lovely. Thanks for coming back to Chicago. Much different landscape here than in Chianti Classico, huh? It is, and it's definitely much colder than Toscom. Right. For sure. Not good. Not cool. Good. Well, welcome. So you're here to just kind of chat about your three estates that you have under the brancaia name, and then we'll taste through some wines that you brought for us today. That's great. Good. Do you want to kind of get us started with the beginnings of brancaia when your parents found the estate and kind of how that started back in the 80s? The estate, as I just mentioned, is owned by my family, and we are actually, we are not Italians. We are not from Tuscany. We are Swiss. And in 1980, my family had the great idea to go to Tuscany for Christmas holidays. May you can imagine that they fall in love with the landscape, with the people, with the food and the wine. So during this Christmas holiday, they had the idea to look around for a holiday house. I underline holiday house. There was no idea to become wine makers. They looked around and they found a house with the name brancaia. And this house was on a hill. And on this hill, there were some acres of vineyards. So instead of just having a holiday house, they were proud owner of a small winery and of a new hobby. What did they do before? I'm sorry. Well, actually, my dad's background is advertising. So he was an owner of an advertising agency. And he never really stopped his work. We went back after our holidays to Switzerland. And I grew up in Switzerland. So I moved to Tuscany when I finished my studies. Okay. With this new hobby, my dad decided that he wants to make only quality wines, so never ever making any kind of compromising quality. And this is pretty much the only thing what has remained the same. So the six acres we had are today 200 acres. And this one spot in the Chianti Classic original are today free wineries in Tuscany. Wonderful. Good for you. Where was that original site? The original state is in Castellina in Chianti, which is in, let's say, between Florence and Siena. So you have two in Chianti. You've got Castellina and then you've got Rara. Exactly. As well. And then you added your estate near Grasetto and Maremma. Yes. So the two estates are, let's say, countryside of Tuscany and Maremma is the south coast from Tuscany. When did they add on the coastal estate? That was in 1988. My first vintage was when we purchased the estate in the Maremma. Okay. So how for you is the difference between making wine in Chianti Classico proper and then having to get used to the coastal exposition and different kind of vinification challenges that you have? It's quite close. It's just 60 miles from one estate to the other, but it's a total different setup from a climat. So you go from a continental climat, which is, let's say, at least for Toscan terms, not for Chicago terms, for Toscan terms, it's cooler and more rain than at the coast, where you have really a very dry and hot climat. So some varietales which mature perfectly in one region, one mature in the other as well. That was just whatever winemaker wants to do. It's a new challenge. It's something new you can do. It's just not about doing more wine, but doing a different wine. That was all what we were looking for. If you have to be careful in the Chianti Classico region to achieve the perfect ripeness to have a wine which does have not too much acidity, in the Marama, you have pretty much the opposite issue. You have to be careful that your fruit won't overripe and that you still have enough acidity. Do you plant the majority of your international varieties, your Cabernet and your Merlot over in the coastal area in the Marama, or do you have them kind of equally interspersed within the Classico region as well? It depends a bit. We have quite a lot of Merlot in the Chianti Classico region, which is a perfect fit. We really can achieve, especially in the Rada, in Chianti region, a quality of Merlot, which I do think is quite unique, but we will taste it afterwards in Il Blu. For the Marama region, I'm honestly not that keen about Merlot. It matures a bit too fast. It doesn't really give me what I'm looking for, a high quality wine. Instead, I do focus in the Marama much more on the Cabernet Sauvignon, Cabernet Franc, and especially on the Portiverde. So both regions, we have international grapes, but different ones. Okay, what's first? We will start actually with brancaia Tre 2015. Tre means free, and there are actually three reasons why we call this IGT, or as you say mostly in America, Supertoscan, even if I probably prefer to call it the baby Supertoscan, that this is our entry level wine. So there are the three reasons why we call this wine Tre R, the blend of the free grape Sanche Vese, Merlin, Cabernet Sauvignon, and the fact that it is actually a blend of all our free estates, so the Chianti Classico estate and the Marama estate. And when we started with this wine, which was the Vintage 2000, it was our third wine in our portfolio. It is, from our point of view, a serious red wine, nice character, nice structure, whatever you need in a red wine. But at the meantime, it's not too complicated. It's actually pretty easy to drink. It matures 12 months, two thirds in tonneau, so small barrels, and one third in concrete. Can you say it again, the Vintage 2015? 15. brancaia Tre. So three as in it's your third wine, but also three varietals. Three varieties and the blend of the three estates. Is this the one that you produce the most of in terms of volume now? Exactly. As I mentioned, it's our entry-level wine. So this is perfect instrument for a winemaker, which allows us never making compromise on our top wines. This is the entry-level? Yes. We're going up from here. This is going to be a great day. Yeah, full of this producer. You have to know something which is very crucial for brancaia. We don't have a vineyard where we focus on tre. We only focus on our top wines in the vineyards. We do dream that each single vineyard at brancaia does have the potential to end up in our top wines. And we live this dream as long as the grapes are outside. As soon as we do pick the grapes, we have stop dreaming, okay? We need to accept reality and it's of course not always our top wines. I'm sorry this wine is such a letdown for you. So, as I mentioned, it's pretty interesting and pretty level. It offers you everything what you're looking for, serious red wine, but not complicated. It's pretty classy. I think it's real juicy. A lot of really nice cherry fruit. With like the savory quality, I would guess it as a Bordeaux if I were tasting it blind. I think it's just got more of a silky quality, a little bit leaner because of the relatively high elevation in the classical region. I think it's very well put together, very well integrated for the three varieties for sure. But the refreshing, it's the acidity, I think that it would take me off of a Bordeaux train here. But the estate is absolutely gorgeous. I was in the brancaia estate in Castellina. That was great. It was wonderful. Thank you. We actually love having people at our estate. Yeah. You have a guest house, so people can go on holiday. We just added now also a kitchen, so people can have also lunch at our estate. It's the perfect place where we can explain what we are doing. It takes a bit of time. It's like four miles dust road, so it's a pumping road to get at the estate. But when you are there, it's just nature and lines and staying there, having a glass of wine and some food. Getting there is a trip. My Uncle Jack was almost lost faith that we were actually going to the right place with those dirt roads. But it's really rewarding once you're there. The view from the terrace overlooking out into that little valley. The hills are quite vertiginous right there in Chianti Classico. They're like right in the heart and it's gorgeous. So I know I sound like I'm a commercial for your estate for people that want to go on vacation, but it's really worth the stop. And like don't give up when the road gets tough because it does. You'll get there. Yeah. And it's tougher it gets, it's closer you are. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's a good sign sometimes, right? You know, just in life, I suppose. Well, what do we have for our next wine? The next wine will be the Chianti Classico Riserva 2014. If you compare it now with the 15 we had before, it's a bit cooler vintage. We had to select definitely much more. For us, the Riserva is really what we consider our classic wine from this old wine region. It's an 80% Sangiovese with 20 Merlot. The wine matured 16 months in small barrels, the Sangiovese in Tonno and the Merlot in Barrique. Okay. An 80% of Sangiovese is the minimum? It's today the minimum. The Chianti Classico rules actually, they changed quite a lot in the last, let's say, 30 years. So a Chianti Classico historically was always a blend of red and white grapes. And for the last 30 years, it was always a fixed quantity of 85% Sangiovese and then some other grapes. Today, the minimum is 80, but even 100% Sangiovese can be a Chianti Classico. I have a friend who always says that he doesn't like Sangiovese, but he also, every time he tries one and thinks I would like it, he gets really excited. He works in the office over there, and he runs over here and he's like, you got to try this Sangiovese. I hate it, but you're going to love it. I think he would say that on this. Sangiovese is, of course, the historical grape variety in Tuscany, and it is a diva, okay? It's not easy to mature a Sangiovese every year on a perfect level, but when you reach, it's actually something very unique. As you may can imagine, as it is already difficult in Tuscany, it's hardly, it's close to impossible to mature a perfect Sangiovese outside of Tuscany, so that makes it even more unique. Nose on this is really incredible. I love the, it's like black pepper and blackberry to me. Would you suggest to our customers that they decant this wine before they serve, or do you think it's good straight out of the bottle? Personally, I do think decant wine makes very often sense. It never ever really harm, especially not with young wines. Giving some more air to the wine is always a good thing. I speak, of course, about young wines, not old ones. It's really impeccably balanced, really lovely for Riserva. Yeah, the acidity of the fruit has nice texture on the mid palate, too. It's fantastic. I just like it because it's not screamingly tannic, which some Riservas can be. When I started 20 years ago, we only had boric, so very small barrels. And today, especially for the Sanche Vese, we use Donau that's still small, but it's like the double. So for us, it's very important at brancaia that we have well-balanced, elegant wines. And as you just mentioned also, with the Tre and now with the Riserva, I love Assility. I think Assility gives the backbone to wine. Absolutely, yeah. You and many other Italian winemakers, right? For sure, that's kind of the common thread with Italian wines. I think Europeans, they're not used to drink wine without food. And if you have food, even if it's just a piece of cheese, you need a certain Assility. Otherwise, it will be so strange in your mouth. You know, it's just, it would be too much. So when you're not drinking Italian wines, what are you gravitating towards? I'm more focused on the old world because it's also a bit easier to find old world wine in Europe, but I have in my cellar everything. I'm keen of well-balanced wine. I don't like if there's one part dominated, but if it's white, if it's rosé, red, sparkling or still, doesn't matter. I like to taste everything. So, we had the Tre, we had the Riserva, and now, what's next? We go with the ilatraia 2013. So, we move now 100% to the Maremma. The Tre, as you may remember, was the mix of Chianti Classico and Maremma region. Now, we have 100% Maremma wine, and the blend with the ilatraia 2013 is 40% Petit Verde, 40 Cabernet Sauvignon, and 20 Cabernet Franc. The wine matures for 18 months in Bari, and it's every, of course, now a long, full-body wine, a lot of structure, a lot of flavors, and very smooth tannins. I think the first thing I noticed is just by looking at it, it's well more deeply colored. At the bat, because of obviously a lot more sun exposure in that region. And no sangiovese in it. And no sangiovese. Already it chews after one day fermentation of a Petit Verde, and the Cabernet Franc is just like black. It smells so rich. It smells like chocolatey. And then a ripe, ripe, ripe raspberry. That's three ripes. It's far weightier. I love Petit Verde, like you mentioned before. Very common, especially in Bordeaux blends, that just have smatterings of it. Two, three, maybe, you know, seven percent at maximum. But 40 percent is great. I love the spice. It's just, it's opulent. It's wonderful. It's cool. It's just, you know, those three grape varieties, they just mature perfectly by dry farming. In Europe, not so particular. Most of the vineyards do have dry farming, but it really depends where you are and what you're growing. For us, as we are just six miles from the sea, San Chavez and the Merlot at our spot needs irrigation. Those three varieties, they don't need. And from my personal point of view, I can achieve a more typical, authentical flavors by dry farming them with irrigation. That's why we focus at ilatraia on those three varieties. Next wine. What do you think? Keep it moving? Yeah, yeah. Just one other thing on this one. You have been talking about the balance of tannins too. And this one seems a lot more tannic, but it balances with the ripeness really well. Is that a question? Nope. It was a statement with the inflection of a question. Well, I think oftentimes, when you talk about balance, people think it's got to be what is balanced with what. And oftentimes, it's always acid and tannin in structure. But as you said, tannin can be balanced with intensity of flavor and so on and so forth. So, there's so many other things here that I think are working to create that balance, that it's not just the structural elements itself, but definitely the intensity. So, good call, Greg. You're having a good day today, buddy. It's fantastic. Yeah. I think intensity is a great word about this wine. It's just so powerful and impressive overall. It's really very big and right, but wonderfully balanced. Earlier, talking about the tray, you used the term super Tuscan, baby super Tuscan. And I always wonder, people that are making wine in that region, how you do feel about that term. Do you embrace it? Do you find it presumptive? Or how do you feel about the nomenclature? Honestly, I do think that super Tuscan does describe very well what it is. It works very good for me. I think it tells actually to a final consumer much better what it is than ICT, which just means typical for the geographic region. So there is nothing behind. Super Tuscan is something actually what has started in the Chianti Classico region as the rules for Chianti Classico, the old rules were not allowing to make high quality wines because there was just a must to have white grapes in the Chianti Classico. So whoever wanted to do something better was somehow obliged to not follow the rules. Today, with the new rules, you can make outstanding wines also with respecting them. But, I mean, you know, we do, for example, the wine you have right now in your glass, which is brancaia Il Blu 2011. We do since 88 and as many other supertasks, and it started as a table wine. It was officially a table wine. Not doing something which is for us part of our history, just because we could do something different. Not what we want to do. We are still proud about our Il Blu, and we will do it today and hopefully also in the near and late future. So the wine you have right now in your glass is again a supertoscan. It's a difference to the ilatraia you had before. All the grapes are coming from the Chianti Classico region, and it's a blend of 50% San Chavez, 45 Merlot, and 5 Cabernet Sauvignon. And the wine matures 20 months in barracks, so small barrels. And then it's at least for two years in the bottle that the wine is before we start to sell the wine. An important thing at brancaia is also that we do mature each single block and each single variety separately as long as possible. We do blend very lately. With the blend of Il Blu, this is crucial for the wine making process, but it's also fun. It's crucial because San Chavez does have a very different need of barrel aging than the Merlot and the Cabernet Sauvignon. And it's interesting for us as a wine maker because we can follow each single block as long as possible. Talk about a spicy meatball. This seems like a baby and it's already seven and a half years old. I just love how the flavor kind of almost hides the tannin. The tannin is there, offering like a good backbone like the acidity does, but you just don't, it's like it's sneaky. It's pretty cool. I like this. Roger, how do you feel about this wine? It's incredible. God, you sound so excited. No, I'm sincere. The nose on all of these has just been contemplative just to keep returning to it. There's so much depth to character there. I just think Sangiovese and Merlot are such a beautiful marriage. The lush fruit and the high acidity, I think this is stunning. I think it speaks to something how high quality in what you would consider your entry level wine is. I mean, that wine is... Yeah. No, you're right, Roger. If that's where you're jumping off with that tre, I mean, that's fantastic. And then up from there. These wines have been exceptional. They're showing very well today. Thank you. Yeah. Lovely. All around. And there's something for everybody who likes Italian wine. There's something, if you're a Francophile, there's some great options here. And I think a lot of California wine drinkers would be served well by trying these because there's, the opulent fruit jumps right out in a couple of these. Yeah, the Il Blu especially is steeped in old world, obviously, but has such nice, ripe, lush fruit that a Napa Merlot or Cabernet drinker would enjoy it too. Yeah. I think today, as we have so many great wines all over the world, it becomes more crucial to have wine. Trees are authentic for where they do grow. And the fact that we really don't use any herbicides, no pesticides, and since 11 years now, all our wines are natural fermentation. So we really pick each single gray block and do ferment them separately. Gives just a special, unique thing, which just can comfort from where they are. Yeah, terroir, very important. Folks, that brings us to the Q&A portion of Barrel to Bottle, The Binny's Podcast, where we answer your questions for a chance at a $20 Binny's gift card. Write your question via email to comments at binnys.com, or hit us up on social media, at Binny's Bev on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. Our question this week comes from Katie Rice Cakes. wait, she's a repeat offender. Yeah, we have like three listeners. And they keep writing us questions, probably because we keep paying them. Yeah. And right on, right? Well, that's it. Once you keep getting that, you know, that clown car of $20 gift cards, you're not going to stop. Right. With a name like Rice Cakes, we can't stop either. And by the way, for 20 bucks, you can buy a bottle of Tre from brancaia. Oh my God, look at Greg. Remember when we asked our listeners to report back on what they bought? Yeah. Nobody's done that. No, nobody has. Katie Rice Cakes, you've gotten at least, I'm going out on a limb and saying at least $60 at this point. I hope that three questions, I think. That's as many as I would need for her, for me to remember. So I need to know what she's purchased. You should do that. You should challenge her to it. We need to know. Katie Rice Cakes writes, what's the deal? What's the deal with wine futures? What's the deal with wine futures? Remember when you got your hair cut and I said you look like Jerry Seinfeld and here you are? This is so full circle. Yeah, he doesn't look good, so that is not a compliment. No, no, but the hair kind of is like, yeah. That's disappointing. Yeah, but it looks better than it did and it doesn't look good. So, sorry Jerry, there's not a good hair. He doesn't have good hair. The puff wasn't good with like the high top white sneakers in the 90s. What a shit look. Not an attractive man. No. Funny guy. But funny guy. Good brain, good brain. So what's the deal with wine futures? Wine futures are more popularly known in the Bordeaux market. However, futures are a vast array of selling things before the product actually exists. Like you can extrapolate that to pork bellies and winter wheat futures. You can buy, you know, can you buy like stock bond futures? I mean, right? So anything that has a monetary value that is sold before the tangible product or stock per se is in your hand is sold as a future. So in terms of Bordeaux futures, it basically means you're buying stocks of wine before they exist in bottle and arrive to you on the shelf. All right. And the reason someone would do that is it's an opportunity to get on the ground floor at the lowest, potentially the lowest market price. Don't get me started on that. We're going to be here all day. All right. Probably the lowest market price. Probably the lowest market price. Not a perfect system. Futures usually become available after some reviews are out, some barrel tasting reviews, so it's not completely blind. Most people come and taste before they purchase, which is basically called en premier. It's a program. And it makes sense from a winery standpoint because they can raise the capital before the goods, before they actually have to finish production. Yes. Well, it was a way for the bourgeois chateau owners back in the day. I don't care about saying it now. It's not a reflection of the chateau owners today, I just want to say, but they're all dead. So I don't really care. But back in the day, they would have representatives work for their wineries or a group of wineries in order to sell their wine ahead of time. And these guys were called negotients. So much different than a negotient, which is known as a merchant in French, much different than how they act over in Burgundy. They're completely different, the business model. But nonetheless, the name is the same. So basically, they will work in concert with the brand owners. And so the chateau owners don't have to actually sell their own wine. And then they'll work with the store owners or restaurant owners to buy their wine in future. In addition to securing a lower, arguably a lower retail price, the customer also has a chance to lock in their allocation of their favorite wine. So a lot of collectors out there, they want 2009, 2010, 2014, 15, 16. They always buy Ponte Cana. Right. And you want to make sure that you're going to get your chance to buy that. So it doesn't sell out before it hits the shelves. And buying it through the futures program means you're locked in for those two cases, three cases, like Kristen said, before it even hits the shelf. I have been known to pre-order limited edition vinyl from my favorite music artists when I know they're going to sell out. On futures. On futures. So kind of like a pre-order. And how it works at Binny's is we usually have like a six bottle or three bottle minimum, depending on the item. And then, I mean, we don't make a lot of money on it, but it's a service that we offer. Plus, we buy hours in future on futures so that so we can lock in to make sure that we have stock to sell at Binny's later. So there you go. If you find a bottle or a producer you fall in love with, you want to collect a vertical, you want to lock in your allotment now for something that's going to exist in a couple of years, wine futures may be for you. If not, stop by at Binny's, taste some wines, fall in love with something that's available on the shelf every day. Katie Rice Cakes, what's the deal with your purchase history? Let's keep it arcane and see if she hits us back. Everybody else, email your questions and comments at binnys.com, or hit us up on social media at Binny's Bev on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. Well, that brings us to the end of our episode of Barrel to Bottle, The Binny's Podcast. Barbara, it's been great. Thank you so much for coming in and sharing the delicious wines of brancaia. I'm very happy that we offer these to our Binny's customers on the shelf. These are truly exceptional. Thank you. Thank you very much for having me here. Of course. Yes. Roger, any closing statements? It was a pleasure to taste through this lineup. Like I said before, I think it's always rewarding when you can find a really accessible wine. I think wine can be intimidating for a lot of our customers and they get scared away at price points sometimes. When you have something of that exceptional quality at a relatively approachable price point, that's something always resonates with me. Cool. Thanks for that. Me too. Folks, thanks again for tuning in to Barrel to Bottle, The Binny's Podcast. I'm your host, Kristin. I'm Greg. Roger. Barb. I'm Barbara. Keep tasted.